<p>Now the other side of the issue.</p>
<p>UVa-Wise</a> upholds expulsion over class paper; Iraq vet plans to reenlist to repay student loans</p>
<p>If he was found to be an apparently stable individual after being investigated--and in the wake of Virginia Tech, I can see why they wouldn't simply ignore him--why would they uphold his expulsion? If he isn't stable, why would they let him back in the army? (Of course, he has not yet reenlisted...)</p>
<p>Personally, I wonder about someone who carries three guns in the trunk of his car, licensed or not.</p>
<p>That's pretty incredible.</p>
<p>Not a very wise (sorry - couldn't resist) choice of subject given recent campus shootings. You'd think he was old enough to know better.</p>
<p>This is the first I've ever heard that UVA had a campus elsewhere. I didn't know there was any UVA campus outside the flagship. Interesting.</p>
<p>Yeah, he should go enlist again. That way, he can easily play with his . . . uh, guns. </p>
<p>My guess is that his (probably weird) behavior, coupled with the story, is what alerted the professor to take action.</p>
<p>whether it was a "smart" choice or not..everyday in class violence in discussed, read, seen in a movie. just today i saw a film in class in which people are shot. So when a person writes something about it it blows up. i agree that the university should have taken action and checked to see how he was mentally and if he had anything in his room. But come on it's rediculous to expell him after finding nothing in his room.</p>
<p>My guess is there was something else about him that caused the expulsion-- the story may have been the final straw-- possibly something that would break student privacy/confidentiality laws if released. For my money, though, the 3 concealed guns in the car is quite enough.</p>
<p>If he had permits for those guns, he shouldn't be punished for having them unless he was violating a school rule, and the article says nothing about that. While more facts may come out, my prediction based on the story in the article is that they will quickly reinstate him once they talk to their lawyers.</p>
<p>People are so ridiculous. Expelling people over discussing guns given recent events is like 'randomly checking' Muslims before boarding planes.</p>
<p>Yes, it does seem ridiculous, and maybe it is, but I have very complicated thoughts here.</p>
<p>The school I teach at had two mass killers as students: Colin Ferguson, who killed 28 people on the LIRR, and Joel Rifkin who killed 17 women. (I think we had another one too, but why gild the lily?)</p>
<p>As an English teacher I get to see disturbing writing. One student continually wrote that he was an exterminating angel sent to purify the human race. He signed his papers Napoleon III. </p>
<p>No one in the class could learn because he scared everyone. There was nothing I could do about it. It turned out he was a prisoner on school release.</p>
<p>Another student wrote he wanted to bomb the world. He stopped when I told him I couldn't read this material. He did later kill himself. I was very sad about this.</p>
<p>This is a complicated, slippery slope, I agree, and the First Amendment is precious. On the other hand, the Supreme Court has ruled that threatening other people's lives is not protected speech. (Now I could get the boy who not stop writing about wanting to exterminate the human race removed.)</p>
<p>I used to keep a file of clippings of murdered English professors. Yes, we are the most vulnerable because our grading seems so subjective to students. </p>
<p>Imagine how it feels to have to teach someone who intimates they want to kill you. I have had my car keyed, death threats, the list goes on.</p>
<p>So, in this case, it does seem an overreaction, but being on the receiving end at times, I really can understand it.</p>
<p>I also know that many of my students do have guns, and many of them have seen gun fire.</p>
<p>(Now I could get the boy who not stop writing about wanting to exterminate the human race removed.)</p>
<p>Maybe you could, but only if it could really be interpreted as a threat. If he just said that he believes the human race deserves to be exterminated, I don't think you'd be able to (at least, if your school is a public university).</p>
<p>
[quote]
If he had permits for those guns, he shouldn't be punished for having them unless he was violating a school rule, and the article says nothing about that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If he drove to the school campus and parked in their parking lot, with his precious guns, permit or no, I'm guessing that's against school rules. If not, they need to write that up now.</p>
<p>Article written in 2006:</p>
<p>
[quote]
A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.</p>
<p>House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.</p>
<p>. . .</p>
<p>Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, I could, because his statements implied a threat to the people in the class. And yes, I do teach at a public institution. We actually received detailed info. on this.</p>
<p>He also said that anyone who didn't have blond hair and blue eyes should be killed.</p>
<p>It was a harrowing class. He finally dropped out when I very sweetly told him that he would have to write papers on topic if he wanted a grade. Experts have told me that my calm, accepting attitude was probably not was he was looking for. He was obviously disturbed, but he was also sweet. I had no personal animus against him, but it was very uncomfortable and scary.</p>
<p>I tried to get the school psychologist to intervene, but he said he could only if asked. Then a dean asked, "Well, do you think he's a real threat?" How would I know?</p>
<p>RE: guns on campus: Virginia has a complicated history with guns and the ability to carry them on a public university campus. The state university in my hometown, home to approximately 15,000 undergrads, does not allow weapons even with a concealed weapons permit. 20 miles down the road, the local community college (also state funded) permits concealed weapons. A good friend of my son's is lucky to be alive this year after being shot at Tech. There has to be more to this story. It's a very tricky and slippery slope to navigate, but I'd rather see a lawsuit over a wrongful expulsion than any more dead kids shot in their classrooms.</p>
<p>"He also said that anyone who didn't have blond hair and blue eyes should be killed."</p>
<p>This is obviously a heinous opinion--but a public institution can't punish a person for holding it or saying it.</p>
<p>I appreciate the constitutional right of free speech. However, as a parent, I would be very concerned about a student carrying around weapons(permit or not, vet or not) in his car. Personally, I do not believe any weapons should be allowed on campus at all. Car, room, etc. In my opinion that in itself is reason enough for the expulsion. I find it highly unusual and frightening that he would write a story like that AND carry around 3 guns.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Barber reports the Chancellor's secretary provided no explanation of why the expulsion was upheld. He says his creative writing class had previously read a story in which a girl murdered her boyfriend. Meanwhile, his piece centered on a student contemplating the killing of a professor -- with no violent action actually taken.
[/quote]
The kid has a point. On student writes about a character murdering her boyfriend, yet no action is taken against her. He writes about a character who only contemplates violence, yet he is thrown out.</p>
<p>Other behaviors might be left out of the story for confidentiality reasons. Otherwise, the penalties of the administration are not being evenly applied.</p>
<p>I'm waiting to see this work the other way, when a teacher is punished for "threatening" students by requiring them to read books with violent acts in them.</p>
<p>Hunt, if a teacher wrote about fantasies of murdering students, and was on campus with three guns in the trunk of his/her car, I'd be worried about him/her also.</p>
<p>Assigning, say, <em>Crime and Punishment</em> does not qualify as "threatening" anyone.</p>
<p>"Hunt, if a teacher wrote about fantasies of murdering students, and was on campus with three guns in the trunk of his/her car, I'd be worried about him/her also."</p>
<p>I confess I'd be worried, too, but unless he was violating some kind of rule, I'd have to console myself by thinking of all the freedoms I also enjoy as an American.</p>