I’m considering UVM this fall for Biology (interested in environmental bio, conservation, env sci, ecology, etc, but I really enjoy humanities classes) and want a nurturing, intellectual environment for college. The outdoor rec and hippie ish vibe at UVM appeals to me. I would love to have cool hiking etc nearby. However, I have heard that despite small groups within the student body that are really cool and hiker-type and all that, it is largely just a state school with huge frat scenes, kind of anonymous, possibly crappy administration, and things like that. Does anyone have perspective on this aspect of UVM?
I am also considering two LACs: grinnell and oberlin. I have this conflict of possibly a big research university with really cool environmental science opportunities (UVM) or a smaller place with more of the social vibe I want and smaller, academically intimate classes (right now leaning towards Grinnell). However, re: outdoor rec, I’ve talked to someone invovled in that at Grinnell and it sounds outstanding (trips out every weekend, free gear rental, etc). I can’t help but think that sort of outweighs the benefits of UVM in that regard.
T.L.D.R., I kind of feel like I might enjoy the community and academic environment more at a place like Grinnell, but I worry I’m passing up a high-quality big research university that could allow me really valuable opportunities in bio/environmental science, and also cool hiking and stuff like that in a beautiful location.
I am considering visiting UVM, but it will not at all be easy this spring thanks to a sport season. If I need to, though, I definitely can. Does anyone think that could seriously help my decision?
I am hoping to get into the Liberal Arts Scholars Program at UVM- I got rejected from the honors college. I am hoping that could be the small, intellectually active community I want at UVM.
I am having a really difficult time making this decision and I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this! I can elaborate on anything!
I’m hoping you get some answers! Where are you getting your info re: concerns? College newspaper?
I’m hopeful someone with actual experience of UVM can give you some insight into the aspects you’re asking about. I don’t know UVM well - have never even been to Vermont - but I wanted to chime in because I’ve been trying to learn as much as I can about UVM myself since it’s one of the two places my son has narrowed his decision down to. Like you, he is trying to choose between UVM and a small liberal arts college. Also like you, we’ve been hoping to visit but it’s been difficult working that in during his very intense spring sports season! Have you done a virtual visit or watched any videos the university has on their site? (we haven’t yet)
I joined a parents of UVM students group on Facebook and have been learning a lot there (they don’t let students in, but if either of your parents are on FB, maybe they could join? there’s a ton of info in that group, about all sorts of things). I’ve also been creeping around on the UVM subeddit, which seems fairly active and open to questions from prospective students. I can tell you that, from what I’ve read on that subreddit, frats don’t seem to be a big thing at UVM - I think less than 10% of the student body is in one. It seems like there are parties to be found for those who enjoy parties but that there’s plenty of other stuff to do if big parties aren’t your thing. And it sounds like there are plenty of parties to go to that have nothing to do with frats.
I know there’s been some unhappiness with the administration over how they handled some sexual assault allegations leveled against a star basketball player a few years ago (there may have been other sexual assault allegations against other students, I’m not sure). From what I’ve read, it does seem that the administration handled things very poorly. I’m not sure if there are other issues with the administration (though that’s plenty!).
From what I’ve read, students at UVM can join the Outdoor Club and have the same kind of situation you mention Grinnell has - trips out every weekend, gear rental (though maybe not free).
My son is likely going to major in a science or social science (he’s considering physics, neuroscience, or possibly psychology) and is also considering applying to LASP. He’s wrestling with all the same questions you are, really, and looking for that small, intellectually active, liberal arts community. I know he would really thrive in a small, nurturing liberal arts environment - the question is, can a smaller community with a liberal arts basis (like LASP) provide that same experience? That’s the thing that’s really hard to figure out from afar.
Do you have a sense of what kinds of research opportunities Grinnell or Oberlin might offer? One of the surprises for us is that the other school my son is considering (Furman University) has incredible research opportunities, esp. for a school its size (~2500 students). And at Furman, the undergraduates are working in the lab directly with faculty, rather than with graduate students the way it usually is at large research universities. It seems like the research opportunities and internships are also more accessible at Furman than at a bigger research university. I wonder if this would also be the case at Grinnell or Oberlin.
The other thing I’ve been gathering about UVM that is different from Furman and, I would imagine Grinnell and Oberlin, is the advising and mentoring. I’ve read some pretty disappointing stories about UVM students who got inadequate help/guidance from their advisers, which really kind of set them up not to succeed their first year (and beyond). At Furman, the faculty advisers are really invested in mentoring and nurturing their students. I think that’s one of the benefits of most good small liberal arts schools. It’s one of my concerns about UVM, esp. since my son is still sorting out exactly what he wants to major in.
It’s a very tough decision to make, and I empathize with you since we’re dealing with the same kind of decision in our house! I will let you know anything else I find out that might answer any of the questions you’ve raised. And I’ll be following along to learn what you ultimately decide!
I wonder if OP could contact the department for her major and ask to be connected to a student. I think a visit is also in order.
Burlington is a pretty cool place with Middlebury & St. Michael’s.
Also the student newspaper might be a good source of information:
There has been a bit of an uproar over cuts of budget/majors. I’m not sure where that stands.
UVM is of interest to me for my S23, so I really hope for some additional responses.
Wow, sounds like we’re really in the same situation. I am trying to plan with my family about maybe visiting on the weekend of April 16th. Uncomfortably close to May 1st, but what can you do. If your son wants to get connected to me, and I end up visiting, I’d love to talk to him about all of it and share my thoughts!
I have talked to a couple people at UVM and heard really great things about social life and environment etc. I still have not really heard from anyone who has a particular perspective on that community-based, nurturing intellectual culture I am wondering about, however.
I know Grinnell and Oberlin have wonderful research opportunities. That’s something that everyone I’ve talked to at each has emphasized. It things like that that are giving me hesitation- if I can get the same (if not better-smaller classes!) academic support and research opportunities at Grinnell, for example, without the general state-school bureaucratic mess that may come with UVM for better or for worse (here I mean the sexual assault mishandling, not being able to find good mentoring, etc)… maybe I should choose that?
There are so many factors. 
again, let me know if your son would like to get in touch if I end up visiting.
My older son is Class of 2022 at UVM (graduated a semester early) and my younger son is seriously considering UVM (currently he is deciding between Syracuse and UVM). My son had a great academic experience at UVM, in particular the fabulous professors he had in the Global Studies program. He speaks very highly of them and he has excelled academically. He was not in the Honors College and he elected not to apply to the LASP. He is graduating with honors in his department and a special departmental award. There is not a huge frat culture at all at UVM. In fact what everyone on the UVM Parents Facebook page keeps saying to me when I mention my younger son is deciding between Syracuse and UVM is that Syracuse has a huge frat and sports culture and UVM does not. UVM kids are very outdoorsy. My son and his friends were pretty big partiers and honestly his major complaint Freshman year was that he couldn’t find the parties. Apparently, there were Frat parties but only Freshman girls were invited. Eventually, he did connect with a few friend networks and find other off-campus parties. Except for the convenience of the gym and the cafeteria, he did not love living in the dorms and was much happier when he moved off-campus Junior year. The city of Burlington is fabulous and there is so much to offer. In addition to the great restaurants and shops, there is a vibrant waterfront, a beautiful lakefront beach, hiking trails and nearby skiing. I understand it is hard to get on the buses for skiing, so it is best to have a car or a friend with a car. My son never made it snowboarding freshman year. I know there are a lot of complaints about the Reslife (housing) department which seems a bit dysfunctional frankly, but I am not really aware of complaints about the main Administration. I know the president is pretty new - just started within the last 2 years. I only vaguely heard about the sexual assault issues through Facebook. It is not something my son ever brought up nor was it ever brought up on the Parent Facebook page, so I am not sure how huge an issue it actually was. It just seems a vocal minority kept spamming the University official Facebook page with comments. Honestly, that is the only place I ever heard anything about it. Best of luck to you on your decision!
Thank you for your input!! That’s wonderful to hear. Why did he choose not to apply to LASP?
He wanted a traditional dorm experience and didn’t want to be limited in terms of classes to choose. Also, he and a friend from high school were hoping to room together and the friend was not interested in the program. That being said, if my younger son decides on UVM I will suggest he applies. I think it would be a great opportunity, especially going in Undecided and not knowing anyone.
I went to uvm for a short time this year so I have some insight. UVM is a very specific demographic for the most part it’s a very “crunchy” school (not a bad thing) but I’d your not outdoorsy or alternative to some extent you might struggle to find your people. When it comes to Greek life I can say first hand that choosing to be a part or not be a part of Greek life will impact your social prospects when it comes to the party scene. With that said it’s not a “go Greek or go home” school at all. You can not join and still have friends and go out but Greek affiliation is a factor. Academics are good and the professors are great!
I also have gone to a NESCAC (SLAC in New England) and it’s a wildly different experience. The small class sizes are great but It very much is like living in a small town. Everyone knows everyone and they tend to (not always) be more preppy. So you have to decide which vibe is more for you!
Thanks for insight. That greek life situation sounds great- I’m fine with not being super invovled, haha. And I’m definitely outdoorsy and alernative, almost enough that I worry I would stand out at UVM. But maybe not then! That’s good to hear.
You have great options! Good luck 
It really does sound like you and my son are in very similar situations. Thank you for the offer to connect with my son if you end up visiting - I will let him know. Right now, we are looking at going to the admitted student day on April 22 if we can swing it - I hate that it’s sooooo close to the May 1 decision date, but he has regattas every weekend but that one, so it’s really our only chance to get there.
May I ask what sport you play? Are you considering doing a sport at the college level (whether varsity, club, or intramural)? That’s one factor for my son - he’s rowed on the crew team every fall and spring for 4 years and loves it. He had zero interest in rowing varsity at the college level because he didn’t want to make that level of commitment (he’d like to do more than just study and row). He’d be interested in rowing on a club team though, which UVM has and Furman doesn’t. If you’re considering athletic involvement at the college level, does Grinnell or Oberlin have what you’d be interested in?
What is the community beyond Grinnell/Oberlin like, and how much does that weigh in your decision-making? Furman is very much its own little world - my son almost felt like we’d walked into Interlochen (his music camp up north in Michigan) when we visited - a slice of paradise for a week but he wasn’t totally sure how he’d feel about being there for four years. Furman is located a few miles outside of Greenville, which is a charming little city but definitely not a college town. We live in Ann Arbor, Michigan, basically spitting distance from the University of Michigan, so he is accustomed to the vibrant quirkiness of a real college town. Burlington is a lot smaller than Ann Arbor but definitely seems to have that college town charm and is a selling point for UVM. My son is trying to figure out how important the setting of his college is to him.
May I ask which of the six LASP programs you applied to? We were looking at the Humanities program but they all look so amazing.
Also following this thread. My D23 is also considering UVM. After reading the constant remarks on social media from students regarding sexual assault on campus, I have some reservations about sending my daughter there. She also loves the outdoors, but not skiing so not sure if there will be enough to keep her socially engaged during the winter. Does not want Greek life at all.
OP, please let us know how your visit goes.
When your son lived on campus, how did he feel about the food in the cafeteria and elsewhere? I keep reading that the food is a major weakness at UVM (with ResLife also being a major weakness).
I’ve heard of mostly good experiences at Grinnell. Very good academically, well funded. It doesn’t have the beauty of Vermont, though. Think rolling cornfields, and a small town…that’s it. I am sure that they have outings to maybe canoe down a river or something. I wouldn’t worry about less research at Grinnell…they will set you up with research positions either there, or somewhere else, if you wish. They have a large amount of resources for a small school, and one of the largest per student endowments in the nation.
My son actually loved the food. A lot of kids complained about it but he said they didn’t know what to order. That is the thing he missed the most living off campus. He was definitely in the minority because everyone on the parent Facebook page was constantly complaining about it, but I can unequivocally say that he loved the cafeteria food.
I play lacrosse! I’m probably not going to be involved in college just because I can’t really face that kind of time commitment, especially since at UVM i think it’s pretty intense. I don’t even know if I’d do a club team. Would be super cool to have fun games to see, though. I know Grinnell and Oberlin both have teams.
I’m hoping to apply to biology or environmental studies (i cant remember what it’s actually called. Something like that).
Wow! This is really good to read - it is honestly the first positive thing I’ve read anywhere about the food! Like you, I’ve seen lots of complaints in the parent FB group, and I’ve seen complaints in the UVM subreddit and elsewhere as well. I know the quality of the food is less important than the quality of the academics, but food is actually super important to my son (he’s tall and thin and seems to eat nearly constantly without gaining weight; during the crew season he has to eat at least 5000 calories just to have enough energy for the sport). He was really impressed with the dining options at the other school he’s considering (we visited 2 weeks ago and he is still talking about the food there, and the fact that the dining plan offers essentially unlimited eating), so I was a little worried that he might be turned off of UVM just from the food alone. Thank you so much for sharing your son’s positive experience!!
Yeah, the intensity and time commitment seem huge with lacrosse and really any non-club sport. Even the club sports can take a lot of time and focus.
The earth and environmental studies program I think? it sounds great. They all do, really. And I love how students can be in any of them, regardless of their major (other than the life sciences one, which is only open to a few different majors). Aaah! So many good options.
My niece is at UVM. Whatever insight I have is 2nd or 3rd hand. She has had stomach issues the two years that she ate in the dining halls. She lives off campus now and it appears to be better. I have heard complaints about the administration (but I hear that about so many schools.) Appears to be A LOT of partying–drinking, marijuana, etc. This is apart from fraternities, which I have heard nothing about. Google UVM 420.