UVM vs. Providence College

Parents Forum
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<p>S was accepted to UVM and waitlisted at PC, but we think he has a good chance at getting in off the waitlist.</p>

<p>So, my question is, which would you choose of the 2 schools and why?</p>

<p>PC will cost 9K a year more, we're paying full tuition no matter where he goes.</p>

<p>He definitely WANTS to go to PC more than UVM (which I don't understand, since he loves to snowboard), but he also didn't want a big school.</p>

<p>He toured and interviewed at PC but only walked around UVM without a formal tour, so I'm thinking that might sway him?</p>

<p>In your opinion, which will offer the better education and reputation (and yes, add more clout to a resume).</p>

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<p>Neither adds any particular clout. Depends on what he wants to do. UVM is hardly a big school by state school standards (10K) and is academically so diversified I am sure he would be able to get alot of personal attention in his area of interest. </p>

<p>D is at UVM and reasonably happy there, likes Burlington and Vermont alot. Skiing is very accessible, and outdoor club is very active. It already costs a bundle, I sure as heck would be reluctant to spend more.</p>

<p>D was also ambivalent until she went to an accepted students day - seeing the other students in her major was helpful.</p>

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<p>A friend’s son went to PC, which is a very Catholic school - it’s not like the Jesuit universities Boston College and Georgetown. It’s a more “traditional” Catholic school.</p>

<p>While he really enjoyed PC, the problem he had was getting into classes for his major. As a freshman & sophomore, he couldn’t get into upper-level classes; as a junior & senior he found that some upperlevel classes he wanted to take were only given every other year, or weren’t given at all. He managed to graduate on time, but didn’t get to take some of the electives he wanted.</p>

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<p>Chevda – what was your friend’s major?</p>

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<p>I’m sorry, but since it’s not my kid and PC is so small, I don’t feel right answering that.</p>

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<p>My opinion…</p>

<p>Neither school would be more “clout” on a resume. </p>

<p>I also would not pick a school based on clout anyway, but that’s just me (and my own kids). The fit of the school would be far more important. </p>

<p>Further, right now, your son only has one of these two schools in his pocket, UVM. Providence College may come through but it may not and remains to be seen. So, for one thing, I would have him embrace UVM as right now he doesn’t have that choice. Further, I would get your son back to UVM for a MUCH more thorough visit than a “walk around campus”. That is not nearly enough to select a college, nor is simply taking a tour. Those are merely starting points. Your son should meet with the departments in which he has an interest, meet with current students, observe classes, do an overnight, meet with those in his EC areas of interest, and take the tour and information session, and attend accepted student events. Without that, he is not making any sort of informed decision. </p>

<p>UVM and PC are very different. Also, UVM is not a large school with 10,000 undergrads, though it is certainly bigger than PC. Burlington is a great small city for college students and if your kid is into winter sports, all the better. Providence (the city) is a fun place to go to college too. UVM is in walking distance to everything in the city, however, which is not true at PC. </p>

<p>I have no idea your son’s academic interest area, but depending on what that is, one school may have more to offer than the other. </p>

<p>Also, PC is a Catholic school and that atmosphere is going to be different than one at a place like UVM. </p>

<p>Both schools offer a fine education. I know strong students who have chosen UVM and are happy there. It is more a matter of personal taste and fit. But right now, while your son can compare these two schools and decide which he’d pick if he were to get off the PC wait list, in the meantime, I would embrace UVM and make an in depth visit. That is the bird he has in hand.</p>

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<p>And just some cautionary words about UVM (or any school with skiing nearby). Back in the day a good friend basically flunked out because he decided to go skiing rather than take his first semester exams. Much more recently (year or two ago), a friend with a son at UVM had to tell him it was either go to school <em>or</em> get a ski pass. For some kids the mountains are too big a temptation to stay serious about school work.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies, they’re very helpful. We will definitely be depositing at UVM if we don’t hear back from PC about an opening by April 25th.</p>

<p>I agree wholeheartedly about getting him to embrace UVM, but it’s easier said than done. I suggested he join the Facebook group for the UVM class of 2014 and he’s not interested.</p>

<p>I’m not worried about my son skiing rather than studying, I know kids who’ve gone that route too, but S is not that kind of kid.</p>

<p>He does his work first always, we’ve never even had to remind him…now my other son on the other hand… ;)</p>

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<p>ingerp, I think that kind of thing is so dependent on individuals and not so much where they go to school. I mean someone could tell my kid who went to college in Manhattan that there would be too many distractions (she hardly had time for them). Someone could tell a kid who went to a college heavy on frats and drinking, that it could take over for their studies. And same with skiing. No different. But many skiers do succeed in college! :smiley: I have a kid who went to an Ivy League school who skied four times per week all four years and got into the top grad programs in the country. Some know how to manage their time well. My own husband who went to college in Boston, took several semesters off to be a ski instructor and went on to become a doctor (though this week…he is not at work…he is skiing, LOL). </p>

<p>ctmom2boys…first, why did your son apply to UVM if he wasn’t interested in this school? Every college on a student’s list should be ones they are interested in attending even if they naturally have some favorites. In any case, your son can’t likely articulate what he likes or doesn’t like at UVM if he hasn’t visited or explored it in depth. You say it is hard to get him interested, but two things…he has no choice but to become interested in finding out more as that is the card he has in hand right now and he may never get off his wait lists, and also he can’t say if he likes it as he has barely explored it enough to say. I would insist on an in depth visit (that is not the same as insisting he likes UVM). And I don’t mean just a tour. After he has scheduled and done all the things I mentioned in an earlier post, I’d have him list his pros/cons about the school. A general “I don’t like it that much” would not suffice. But no matter what, that is his option at this juncture. And it will seem too much like a fall back if he just waits to hear from Providence College and never explores the sure thing he has in hand until the very last moment. I’d get him to UVM pronto, or to an accepted student event.</p>

<p>PS…does he think UVM is too much of a “safety”? I read his basic stats and I would not have considered UVM so “safe” for him. It is challenging to get in from out of state and his stats are not above the average for UVM. It is not as if the school may be too “easy” it seems.</p>

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<p>Was Providence College a “reach” school on his list and UVM considered a “safety”? </p>

<p>Just wondering because in terms of selectivity, they are in a fairly similar category. </p>

<p>Providence College
Acceptance rate: 45.3%
Mid SAT range CR/M: 1140-1320
Percent in top 10% of HS class: 44%
Percent in top 25% of HS class: 80%
Percent in top 50% of HS class: 98%
Avg. GPA: 3.5</p>

<p>UVM
Acceptance rate: 64.8%
Mid CR/M SAT range:1130-1350
Percent in top 10% of HS class: 40%
Percent in top 25% of HS class: 77%
Percent in top 50% of HS class: 98%
Avg. GPA: not available</p>

<p>The SAT and class rank of accepted students is fairly similar at both schools. UVM doesn’t supply the average GPA. The acceptance rate at PC is lower. However, for an out of state student to UVM, the acceptance rate is most likely lower than the overall published acceptance rate (and your son is out of state).</p>

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<p>Sooz…he applied to UVM and Bryant (because his best friend applied to those two schools, BTW, best friend didn’t get into UVM but got into Bryant without merit money like he did) last minute because yes, he had no safeties on the list.</p>

<p>We had just come off of his junior year where he made the principals honor roll the last three quarters (GPA above 3.85 and no grade under a “B”), heck, his last quarter was a 3.96 and he did it with minimal effort, I can count on one hand the number of times he’s studied for a test, plus he attends a very, very highly rated competitive high school so yeah, it was a safety, and the fact that he was accepted without showing any interest whatsoever (he didn’t even request .a brochure) pretty much confirms it IMHO. He’s a bright kid who is more interested in sports and friends than academics.</p>

<p>Unfortunately the only schools he was truly interested in applying to were targets that turned out to be reaches. Every counselor we spoke with thought he applied to appropriate schools, I’m guessing he was just like most of the kids who applied to those schools in a year when colleges received a record number of applications. I can’t say that he suffers from low self-confidence or has self-esteem issues, that’s for sure. If you were to ask him he’d tell you that he could go to Harvard and graduate.</p>

<p>I agree that his consideration of UVM as a safety is arrogant, there are definitely better students than he who attend. I actually think UVM is a better fit for him than PC, but what do I know, I’m only his mom. </p>

<p>I have already registered him for the accepted student day, but I hesitate to even bring up the subject, because as you know the more a parent touts something the more suspicious kids tend to be.</p>

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<p>I honestly know very little about your son, except reading some of your posts. And clearly more goes into admissions than some stats. However, you have posted that your son had a 3.2 or 3.3 cum GPA (you posted both these numbers in different posts). He had below a 2.8 GPA his first two years of HS and then had a very strong upward trend. Colleges surely will look at his upward trend and that is a positive thing on his record. But his cum GPA still matters as do his grades all four years. I assume that he had some C’s (you posted he had a D in a class) and the like his first two years to have a GPA that he had those two years. So his improvement is to be commended. But someone with a GPA of 3.2/3.3 would not consider UVM to be a safety. (I don’t know the rigor of his curriculum, a big factor as well…if these were AP classes or Honors, etc. or not). Further, you gave his SAT score which is NOT above the 75%tile of admitted students to UVM which means it is more of a match, not a safety. I don’t know his class rank but have to imagine that with a 3.2/3.3 GPA, that he may not have been in the top 25% of his HS class. He would need to be close to the top 10% of his HS class to have UVM as a safety school. So, in my view, UVM may have been viewed as a safety by him but it was not a safety school. And it is in similar ballpark as Providence College, particularly as an out of state applicant. The fact that he was accepted to UVM doesn’t imply it was a safety, but an acceptance happens even for match and reach applicants. The other schools that you are referring to on his list that you say were initially targets but turned out to be reaches, is the same thing I am saying about UVM…it may have been a safety, but my estimation is that it was more of a match, based on the little bit you have shared in your posts. I would not have considered it a safety school. </p>

<p>You said your son did not want a big school but he had UCONN on his list which is way bigger than UVM. UVM doesn’t feel like a very big school, but more of a medium sized one, almost like a liberal arts college or small university.</p>

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<p>Does your son want to go to Bryant College? If so, he need not visit UVM and that’s that. But right now, he cannot afford to count on his wait lists coming through. So, encouraging him to visit UVM is not like taking some junior to see a college he isn’t interested in. In your son’s case, these are his true concrete options. And if he is going to go to college next year, he needs to visit his options and explore them. Just putting a deposit on UVM isn’t going to work too well. If he gets off a wait list after May 1, great. But if not, he will have explored the schools that admitted him and not simply have put a deposit down at one of them.</p>

<p>I see you have another son at Champlain College. I did not realize that until now. That makes this even easier…he can go visit your other son for a couple of days and spend considerable time exploring UVM as they are next door to one another as you must know.</p>

<p>PS: I also JUST read that your son has yet to visit Bryant and won’t be doing so until he hears from the wait list at PC. I think that is ill advised. You may not hear about the wait list until after May 1 which is the National Reply Date when schools see how many they have yielded of the offers sent out. Your son needs to make a decision before May 1 and needs to visit his two accepted schools…Bryant AND UVM. He is very lucky to have a choice!</p>

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<p>You assume right…he had some D-'s his first two years, all in French. </p>

<p>The only reason he had UCONN on the list was because we insisted on it. UCONN is an excellent school at a bargain price, especially for residents. It’s just too good of a school at too low of a price NOT to apply to. Everyone who lives in CT applies to UCONN.</p>

<p>In fact, in one of the College guides I was reading today they said “UCONN is a state school where one can get an ivy league education at a public school price”.</p>

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<p>He’s never even seen Bryant. Of the two, he’s leaning towards UVM.</p>

<p>We know he can’t count on the WL coming through, and so does he. You just can’t make someone be happy about their choices, obviously.</p>

<p>I think UVM is a great school and that he’d be very comfortable there. Maybe he’s just being stubborn or angry about. being WL. It also doesn’t help that he has friends with lower grades/SAT’s .who got into better schools on athletic scholarships.</p>

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<p>My D (OOS) was accepted to UVM and a number of other schools both private and public. Once she stepped on to the UVM campus she fell in love! The major, the campus, the town - a total package. She has been up three times as we have friends in Stowe. We are now awaiting the FA package which is much needed. Have your S attend an Accepted Students Visit day if possible. There are a number in April. Liking his surrounding can’t be forced as I have found with my D. It is their surroundings for at least four years. Check out the latest news on all college magazines online as well to allow you and your child to make an informed decision. It is amazing what one finds out about a school from what is happening in the news rather than the marketing spin. Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>You are right that you can’t make someone happy about his choices. But a few things…
For one thing, UVM was not a safety from what I can tell. You wrote that your son got into none of his target schools but I would have pegged UVM as a target, and surely not a safety based on the little bit of information you have posted on CC. So, already, I would point out how the stats of admitted students to UVM are similar to those of PC and indeed, it was an accomplishment to be admitted to UVM for your son. He doesn’t seem to see it that way but it was never viewed with a realistic lens in the first place. </p>

<p>One thing you can’t change is how he tacked this school onto his list without making sure he explored and liked every school he was putting on his list </p>

<p>However, he CANNOT state why he likes or dislikes this school as he barely KNOWS this school. For no other reason, he needs an in depth visit (not just a tour!) and then I’d ask him to articulate the pros/cons and do the same with Bryant. These are the cards he was dealt. Time for him to explore both. There is no way for him to be happy about it if he hasn’t even explored these schools in person. He is sitting and wallowing about what acceptances he did not get and not taking any time to examine the ones he did get. He can’t truly tell you why he doesn’t like these schools (only that he didn’t get into his preferred ones). I would insist on a full 24 hour visit to each of these schools and then have him compare/contrast them orally or in writing and then see what he likes or not likes. Right now, he can’t realistically tell you anything as his “unhappiness” about the school is based on nothing concrete about either of these two acceptances and only that they are not PC or Loyola. Your son’s opinion about UVM (or Bryant) is not an informed opinion. </p>

<p>I know students who are much better students than your son, including valedictorians who are dying to go to UVM. I live in Vermont. This is a fine school. PC may appeal to your son more but he can’t compare them apples to apples as he has not explored UVM in depth. And PC is not a better school in terms of reputation or the level of student it admits.</p>

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<p>I also read that your son got into UVM for BUSINESS. Does he want to major in business? If so, at Providence College, there is only a Business Studies certificate for non-majors. UVM has an entire school for business majors. So, your son needs to list the criteria he wants in a college and see which college best meets his criteria. If a business major is one of his criteria, UVM already has more to offer than PC (not that PC is currently one of his firm options).</p>

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<p>Soozie, with all due respect, I GET IT.</p>

<p>You think UVM was not a safety school for my son. Check.
You think we didn’t do our homework in not "making sure every school on his list was one he explored and liked (forget that some kids are not easily impressed, that would be too easy). Check
He is wallowing in self-pity because he didn’t get into the schools he wanted. Check.
We should interrogate him on his feelings regarding the hand he was dealt because his unhappiness isn’t rational or justified, especially given his mediocre academic record. Check.
There are valedictorians who are upset that they didn’t get into UVM (just like there are valedictorians upset that they didn’t get into Stanford. Check.</p>

<p>I don’t think there is anything that you’ve posted that I’ve disagreed with, so I wonder why you’re still making the argument?</p>

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<p>Sorry, I can bow out. Each of my posts were either in response to previous posts that went up in the interim, as it is a discussion, or else I made some new points. For example, I mentioned about the contrast in business programs, something you can mention to your son that is concrete. When you said you can’t make someone happy about the choices, I agreed and gave suggestions of what you could say to him and what actions to do next. My original posts were about the two schools. Then, when it came up that you considered UVM to be a safety, I contrasted PC and UVM as the two have similar stats for admitted students. I also read back posts at that point to understand the case better and realized that UVM was not really a safety but a target and so that would be worth pointing out to your son that he did well to get in! Anyway, I was trying to help. But I would be happy to refrain if you prefer.</p>

<p>Also, I never said your son should not feel disappointment. But after a day or two of disappointment, my advice is to examine the options he has since he can’t change what happened. And so rather than dwelling on “not happy to attend UVM”…it might work to really get to the nitty gritty of what he likes or not about UVM which he can’t do without being more informed by a visit. But I never said I didn’t understand his disappointment.</p>

<p>By the way, I never said vals are upset to not get into UVM. I said that UVM is well regarded here in Vermont and in fact, many vals and such CHOOSE to go there and so just saying it has a nice reputation (you did start the thread with concern about the “clout” of UVM).</p>