UW CS v. UC Berkeley CS

College Search & Selection
1

I got accepted into the CSE department at the UW and the EECS department at UC Berkeley, and I plan to major in Computer Science. I live in UW, so I would pay in-state tuition (~$12,000) and out of state tuition at Berkeley (~$38,000).

I’m leaning towards Berkeley because of its reputation and rigor, but the UW has a definite price advantage.

Could someone please advise me some of the pros and cons of the CS majors at each college, with regards to:

  • quality of professors
  • course rigor
  • campus quality
  • clubs and organizations

Thank you so much!

2

If you have direct admission to CS at UW, then it is hard to see any difference in academics between them being worth $26,000 per year.

3

Woooah let’s not be hasty here. We’re talking BERKELEY here.

4

Both are ranked similarly.

Here’s a rundown of each from my time at both (settled at UW CS and loved the culture and ops)

UW has easier job opportunities (maybe 500 companies are competing to offer internships and jobs to 300 students, the companies have to fight to get a student). The class sizes are way smaller (most are below 80). You’re pretty much guaranteed a 6-figure job at Microsoft, Google, Amazon, or Facebook (72% of the alumni went to one within 3 years of graduation)

Berkeley has much larger classes, and a better math and physics program (if you’re into double majoring), but the CS material is pretty much the same. You have the benefit of Silicon valley too. There’s a ton of more competition for jobs and research opportunities (since there are so many students and such little space to offer each student an opportunity). If you can see yourself competing for a job and research op, then you might like it here. Unlike UW, you aren’t really “restricted” to an industry job. Startup culture is big here (not as much as Stanford though, so you’ll be competing with them.)

Both have their goods (CS program and jobs) and bads (Homeless culture at Berkeley and rain in Seattle [although from spring to early fall, it’s around 70-90 degrees a few times a week.]).

I would tour both.

5

@SoCalifornian Yes, Berkeley. So what? UW is on par with Berkeley in many areas, including CS. Only thing UW lacks that Berkeley has is the big, world recognition (though to be fair, UW is still widely known, especially among the science and research community).

OP has nothing to lose by attending UW, especially with that direct admit to CS.

6

It’s true UW has a very good CS program, certainly one of the best in America. But, in all honesty, I don’t think it’s on par with Berkeley’s. Berkeley’s CS is on par with Stanford’s and MIT’s. Perhaps CMU falls in this league, too. UW could be right below it though.

OP, I think you need to know the differences that set Berkeley above UW and why it is worth paying the OOS price.
First of all, Berkeley has a global appeal and has a much higher pedigree than UW does. You got into Berkeley as OOS, which means you’re very smart. And, the fact that you did not just get into Berkeley, but onto Berkeley’s most oversubscribed program (EECS), automatically entitles you as certified genius. (Lol…) There will be more people in the industry who would be more impressed by you being a Berkeley EECS student than a UW CS student. I would also wager that there were more Berkeley EECS students who’ve turned down offers from a top 20 school than there were UW CS students. Though this is just anecdotal, almost everyone on EECS at Cal has also gotten offers from a top 20 private school, including Harvard, Princeton and Yale. Being around such incredible people will help you raise your educational, as well as, your social standards. It probably also means you’ll be having a much better network and contacts in the future.

There’s also a growing cultural mindset of becoming a successful entrepreneur at Berkeley these days. You’ll see many more students launching start ups now than ever. And the support you’ll get from the department, your college, and the school as a whole, is significantly stronger now than ever. There is now a more defined and well-structured program being pushed by the university (which is headed by those people at Haas Business School) of fellow students coming from different colleges within the university, collaborating with each other in order to launch their discoveries/inventions to bring them to the market. As an undergad student, you will then have an opportunity to work along students from the law school, the business school, and, most likely some international grad students who are the best from their respective home countries, and professors who will also serve as your mentors.

There are plenty of opportunities that you can find at Berkeley, which are, in fact, absent at many top private schools. Mentorship, personal guidance, support are no longer as much of an issue now as they were before. It’s true Berkeley is big. But you can make it small if you want it so. You will always find your own people there or your own universe. And, the best part of all this is they all respect each other.

If you can afford Berkeley, I would seriously suggest you take the offer. The Berkeley experience is invaluable, and the opportunities it offers are boundless. The students are amazing and loyal to the school. And, it doesn’t hurt that the Berkeley name is highly recognized and respected in almost every country in the world.

7

Actually, you’re right. Berkeley is pretty amazing, but personally, I don’t see it being worth 20 grand a year to attend. UW is really up there too. In the end, college selection is a very personal choice, and not something strangers on the internet can do for you. You should visit these schools, talk to some students, sit in on a class, then make your decision.

8

@Redtor, we’re talking about undergrad, not grad school.

BTW, speaking as a CS grad from another school:

  1. Many Cal EECS majors seem to it a point to say their major was EECS.
  2. I always find it hilarious when they do so.

I have a sneaking suspicion that most people outside of Cal think the way I do. Granted, Cal grads may be impressed by an EECS major.

9

What are your parents saying about paying for OOS UCB? Are they affluent and won’t miss the money? Will they or you be taking out loans? what?

If your parents are wealthy, they’ve saved for retirement, and won’t miss the money, then super.

Employers will not pay you more for having a UCB CS/EECS degree over a UW CS degree. So, no, it’s not “worth it”.

<<<
@PurpleTitan
BTW, speaking as a CS grad from another school:

  1. Many Cal EECS majors seem to it a point to say their major was EECS.
  2. I always find it hilarious when they do so.
    <<<<

oh my! So true. I ran into an old friend and he made it a point to say that his child was at UCB majoring in EECS…(with a huge emphasis on EECS). I’m sure many wouldn’t even know what he was talking about.

10

Anyway, I personally would save the money and go with UW.

11

@PurpleTitan I think there is a big difference between that type of experience/coursework for an EE that works on the software side of embedded real-time systems and CS major only focused on high level programming (like web development).

The UCB website even describes the distinction between the CS and EECS programs :

"Note that there are two different major programs in CS at Berkeley. One major leads to the Bachelor of Arts and the other, the CSE option within the EECS major, leads to the Bachelor of Science.

"This CS major is for students enrolled in the College of Letters & Science (L&S). There is no difference in the CS course content between the B.S. and B.A. programs. The difference is in what else you take: mainly engineering, or mainly humanities and social sciences. In particular, an interest in hardware suggests the EECS route; an interest in double majoring (for example, in math or cognitive science) suggests the L&S route."

Why is the distinction hilarious?

12

As a practical matter, based on enrollments of EE and CS courses, most UCB EECS majors emphasize CS these days. Also, embedded systems and computer architecture courses are offered under the CS department (embedded systems is cross-listed with EE), so L&S CS students can include them in their CS courses.

13

Still, EECS connotes a required set of coursework and CS may or may not.

Is it hilarious to make the distinction between an EECS and CS degree?
Is there a difference between a BS and a BA?

14

Re #12

EECS requires 1 extra math, 3 extra science (including 2 physics), and 1 extra EE, compared to L&S CS. Both majors have similar CS required and optional courses, but EECS majors may choose more EE courses instead. GE requirements differ. EECS is ABET accredited, though that rarely matters.

A significant difference is admissions. EECS admits to major and is more selective for frosh admission. L&S does not admit to major. L&S CS majors currently need a 3.3 GPA in prerequisites to enter the major.

15

It is already self evident that there are differences in the curriculum and there are “significant differences” in admissions.

But you are avoiding the specific question directed at you if it’s hilarious to make the distinction between a BS degree in EECS or a BA in CS from UCB.

16

@IlliniDad18, pretty much nobody makes a distinction between a BA or BS in CS (and I’m speaking as someone who’s diploma says “bachelor of science in computer science”).

It’s true that EECS requires more hardware courses, but the folks who made sure I understood that they were in an EECS major were doing software development that had nothing to do with hardware or were already in a completely different field. It’s also true that there seems to be a significant difference in admissions. Whether anyone outside of Cal actually cares about that is a different issue. I know I don’t.

17

Re #14

The “hilarious” comments came from @PurpleTitan , not me.

To the extent that some seem to care beyond the practical aspects of curricula and admission to major, it may be just more selectivity based prestige mongering, just like bragging about attending MIT, Harvard, etc…

18

Unless the money were no object to the family, I’d go with UW here.

19

I actually have two friends who graduated with B.S. of CS degrees (one from UW, one from Cal, coincidentally enough).

The UW one made $105,000 as her starting salary at a big company (she was offered the job at the beginning of her senior year - they recruited her)

The Cal one made $95,000 as his starting salary. At the middle of his senior year, he began applying to a bunch of big companies and local ones nearby, but keep in mind, there was lots of competition from Stanford, Caltech, etc.

Unfortunate for the Cal grad, his job was offered in SF, so the price of living is huge too.

Although who knows, they could’ve easily made up these numbers (making it bigger or smaller), cause I asked them as a question of curiosity (no proof).

Take it as you will

20

The question is not whether Berkeley is ranked higher than UW in computer science. It is - although not by a whole lot. Berkeley’s a top 5 CS program and UW is top 10-15. The difference is not significant. Name recognition in every country in the world is irrelevant if you are going to spend your working life in the U.S., and quite frankly, after your first or second job where you went to undergrad doesn’t matter anymore anyway. Getting international gigs after that point depends more on where you’ve worked before and whether your job has international locations.

The question is whether Berkeley is worth an additional $104,000 over four years. And I definitely don’t think it is. Berkeley EECS may be slightly better than UW CS in some areas and maybe even a lot better than UW in one or two, but we’re talking about a six-figure pay gap. That’s an entire year of salary, even for a well-paid CS student. As someone already pointed out, you’re not going to get offered more salary just because you went to Berkeley. And if we’re talking about job opportunities and alumni connections, UW graduates obviously have them. They partner with most of not all of the very large tech companies that are located in the Seattle area. There are lots of internships to be had in Seattle. There are a lot of opportunities post-graduation to be had. UW CS is noted as one of the top in the country.

If your goal is job opportunities and alumni connections post-college, you can get them with UW, and they will be more than sufficient to connect you to some of the top tech companies in the world. So why would you pay so much more?