UW-Eau Claire and Budget Cuts

Parents Forum
1

My daughter is interested in UW-Eau Claire, and we are scheduled to visit the campus next month.

We are residents of Illinois.

D likes that the campus and student body is small, but not too small, and seems to encourage interdisciplinary studies via double-majors/major with minor requirement… She will be undecided, but is interested in Spanish, History or Geography as a major at UWEC, with maybe a minor in Language Studies or Anthropology (cannot major in Anthro at UWEC, apparently.)

My concern is that, when I researched info about the school, I read article after article about big budget cuts to the campus.

How will these cuts affect class size and availability of classes?

It seems that most of the cuts will be in administration, but how will that trickle down to affect the students and course/major selection?

I know there are budget cuts at almost all public universities - here in Illinois, too. But the fact that UWEC is already a smaller campus with already limited options for majors makes me nervous.

Or, will this, honestly, not be a huge change for the students? Is this something we should be concerned about?

2

Gov. Scott Walker has made comments about UW being a world class university, and that Wisconsin didn’t need a world class school, just one that was “good enough” for citizens of the state. He wants to slash the budget of the flagship as a result, but I have no idea if this applies to the budgets of the satellite campuses as well.

3

Wow, he said that? Wisconsin doesn’t need a world class university?! Wow. Very sad sentiment.

Actually, yes, Eau Claire’s budget has been cut by a few million, at least, if I remember correctly what I’ve read…
I’ve heard and read some good things about UWEC, and it sounds like a very good academic fit for my daughter. She doesn’t want a huge research university like Madison or UIUC.

I guess we’ll just a keep an eye and ear out… Hopefully, the administrative cuts won’t affect class size/selection, etc. too much. She does have other options, but UWEC sounds like a good one, aside from the slashed budget issue…

4

Here’s one article I just found: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/07/29/university-wisconsin-eau-claire-responds-massive-cuts-state-support
I live in Wisconsin. I attended UW-Madison for undergrad and professional school. My father spent most of his career teaching at another UW system school. I’m very proud of the UW system. I think instructors and other staff will do their best to minimize the budget cuts’ effects on students. But I’m sure there will be effects.

5

My son is currently attending a satellite UW campus so I have been following this budget slashing with some interest. The school is doing an amazing job of keeping parents, staff and students apprised of the meetings the chancellor attends to get a handle on how all this will effect the school. They are worried, but are trying to get ahead of it and make cuts to non-essential personnel, spending, etc. a little at a time so it doesn’t hurt quite so bad down the long road. What I think is going to happen is this will get passed on as significant increases in fees since tuition has been frozen for another year. I don’t think class sizes will be affected, but campuses may see a mass exodus of long-term, tenured faculty since they the tenure terms are being changed.

UW-EC is a great school and does a fantastic job of educating - I think this budget thing has long term ramifications so it might be hard to get a handle on the real effects this close so soon. I’m sad for the system - UW has long been a great place to get a solid college education, and not just for WI residence.

6

Actually, D would be able to attend UWEC for less $ than an IL state school - as is the case with your son too, I’m guessing. That is a big reason why we looked into UWEC in the first place, but honestly, we can afford and would be willing to pay a little more for an OOS tuition, esp. at a school with a rep like UWEC’s. Our requirement for OOS tuition was that it match, or come close, within 2-3k to what it would cost for her to attend UIIUC or Illinois State.

So, if UWEC raises their tuition a bit, under the MSEP program, that would be fine, for our family, anyway.

I do hope they choose to stay in the MSEP program, though, and don’t raise tuition a LOT in the next few years.

She hasn’t even applied yet, or been accepted, and heck, we might take her up there and she might not like it, who knows? But if she is accepted and decides to enroll, I’d like to know that at least all of the academics she is interested in will be there for her.

I am also sad for the UW system right now… UW schools have always been respected and admired in the upper Midwest, and it seems WI has always prided itself on it’s caliber of higher education. I personally think it’s a travesty how the Walker administration is trying to undermine and destroy all that.

7

Yes, the MSEP program along with my son’s major was a big factor in choosing his UW school. I’m fairly certain that schools are trying their hardest to keep from cutting academics - it’s the other “fluff stuff” they should do away with first. So I’m sure that your D’s program of interest will still be there. It is possible that some of the smaller campuses that have had dwindling enrollment (not EC, they have been growing), start closing, or combining so there are fewer satellite locations. I’ve never understood why UW has sooo many campuses - some of them are almost acting like CC’s since they are fed by a large portion of local students. Maybe they should concentrate funds on the strongest campuses and close the smaller ones it will give the larger campuses a fighting chance to stay strong.

She should definitely still apply if she likes the campus after her visit - good luck to your D!

8

The UW schools will handle budget cuts like all schools do - either raise the fees or cut the services. Usually you don’t notice the changes all at once. If a professor leaves, he may not be replaced. One fewer session of a course might be offered, so instead of 30 students in an Intro to Writing class, there may be 35. Office hours for administration might be shortened by 30 minutes a day.

On a longer term basis, the system might decide to combine some programs at different campuses. If a major was offered at 3 campuses, it might only be offered at 2.

I’m interested in where you think all these tenured professors will be heading in droves. It’s not like professors can just get another job in another university system. Jobs are pretty tight all over.

There are so many campuses of UW because in the early 70’s they combined the Wisconsin State University system with the UW system. Most of the schools had a strength like education, nursing, natural resources, engineering, and continued to build on that strength. Most of the kids who graduated from my high school who did go to college did go to the local UW, but why not? They lived at home, had jobs, went to school, got a degree that says ‘UW’ on it. It wasn’t like going to a CC at all. Isn’t that what’s always preached here on CC ? Be reasonable and get the best education you can for as cheap as you can?

9

Thanks!

Yes, it seems, from my research, that EC and a few others are the “strongest” satellites, and yes, there seem to be a LOT.

That’s good to know about EC growing. Thanks for your info!

10

OP, the UW regional schools are a bargain if you are instate, although still a good value for OOS students. I have visited both Eau Claire (overall good reputation for many majors), and Platteville (great for engineering.) I have heard good things about La Crosse (many consider this #2 after Madison), Whitewater (great for education majors) and Green Bay. Many in my area head out to Milwaukee and to Parkside. Milwaukee covers many different type of students so the graduation rate is lower, and there can be older students in classes. I didn’t expect to like it, but actually was impressed with some aspects of it when I visited. Although Parkside has dorms and is very pretty, it is more of a CC than the others. However, still a good value for the kids in the area as they can live at home to keep costs down and still get a 4 year education (or take the basics here and transfer to a bigger school with most credits transferring.)

Eau Claire is very nice. The main part of the campus is on the lower level, with the dorms being on top of the hill. Its a great way for the kids not to get that freshmen 15. If she is interested in a certain major, request to meet with someone in the department. After the group tour, we had someone take myself and my son on a personal tour of the department and got to see science rooms, etc. Although my son did not end up going there, we were impressed with what we saw.

11

My son graduated from UWEC in 2014. He was a CS and Math double major and has been working in Madison since June of '14. My daughter will be a senior at UWEC this fall. She’s a history/english education major. Both did and have thoroughly enjoyed their experience. My daughter was in Central Europe all of this June as part of a class. There is a high rate of study abroad for a smaller school.

UWEC and La Crosse have set themselves apart some from the other campuses in general but others have some strong areas, particularly Whitewater for business, Platteville for engineering and Stevens Point for natural resources sorts of things. When touring, both my kids liked UWEC more than La Crosse.

The year my son started, UWEC implemented a differential tuition charge to be used to expand a number of programs. A couple other campuses have that too, I believe. That charge is grandfathered in with the tuition freeze.

UWEC has a nice honors program that both of my kids have been a part of. I hope that continues, I think it will as I don’t think any other of the smaller campuses have as good an honors program, most don’t have one at all. UWEC is a teaching school first and foremost and it’s “specialty” so to speak is undergrad student-faculty collaborative research for those who seek it out. My son did this all 4 years in CS and junior year in math as well.

There’s no way to really predict what the cuts will mean, only time will tell. It is atrocious how little regard the governor and current legislature have for higher education. The article link in post #3 was very interesting to me and gives me some encouragement even though my daughter only has a short time left.

12

Thanks, @twoinanddone , @annoyingdad (love the name!) and @kjcphmom , for your insights.

We considered UW-LaCrosse, but it seems you have to declare a major going in to get the MSEP tuition rate, AND the student can only major in certain fields. For example, she is considering History, but UW-L only offers the MSEP rate to certain types of History majors. Just seems like too many restrictions when she can just attend Eau Claire.

13

Interesting- never thought of the other campuses as being “satellites” to Madison. And the UW system campuses are not the same as the technical area schools -even if they upgraded Madison’s to “college” status (likely because so many locals going there were not into tech degrees). Left the state for retirement living three years ago and don’t like what I’m hearing about current management., but relatives are all past college (or way too young). Used to be so proud of my state, sigh.

14

UWEC is a good school. My sister went there in the 90s. I live in rural WI–most of the kids here who choose EC are interested in nursing and/or not competitive for Madison. The tippy top kids here pick Madison first. La Crosse is seen in my town as more of a “party” place than Eau Claire. Oshkosh for the real parties though. Milwaukee for kids who want urban. Platteville for engineering or ag. (This is what kids say/I see–I’m certain you can get an excellent education at all these schools).

My spouse and I have worked (one or both of us) for UW system for more than 15 years. Morale is horrific right now. Most (not all of course) faculty and staff have feelers out for other jobs. Many are leaving. While it is true not everyone will go, it is not a good situation at all. I fear they will lose the more dynamic and passionate educators and keep the less motivated. The universities are trying to protect students from cuts, but I think that is a pipe dream. My kid wants to get out for her own reasons, and that is fine with us.

I would still visit and see what you think.

15

I have seen this coming for years. This is why I support independence from UW System and conversion to semi-private for UW Madison.

16

I wouldn’t expect tenured professors to leave “in droves,” but there will be some significant losses, especially from Madison where many of the top faculty have national reputations, and especially in the sciences where top stars can often bring external research funding with them. These people would be welcome just about anywhere. Others seen as rising stars in their fields will have some lateral prospects as well. Most of the faculty at UW campuses other than Madison don’t have that kind of star power, but there will be attrition. With budget uncertainty, resource constraints, and threats to tenure, some may elect to retire earlier than they might have otherwise, and not be replaced, or be replaced by cheaper non-tenure track lecturers or adjuncts. Others may leave for private sector opportunities, Others may beat the bushes for employment at private colleges, or in other states, and some will succeed.
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UW salaries are already fairly low by regional standards. Full professors at UW Madison made on average $123,500 in 2013-14, according to the AAUP faculty salary survey. That’s good for 11th place among Big Ten/CIC schools, barely ahead of Nebraska at $119,000, and trailing Purdue at $130,600, Indiana at $132,600, Michigan State at $135,100, Iowa at $135,300, Minnesota at $136,000, Ohio State at $139,200, Penn State at $140,600, Illinois at $145,000, Michigan at $156,900, and (special case because it’s private) Northwestern at $182,000. Oh, and CIC partner University of Chicago at $210,700. Whatever psychic bonus UW faculty get from living in Madison, at some point the financial penalty will prove too great for some of them, and they’ll look to go where they can be better compensated if they can.

It seems to be the same at the sub-flagship level. UWEC is one of the stronger schools in the UW system, but full professors there make on average just $74,900. This compares to $88,700 at Minnesota State-Mankato, $92,200 at Northern Iowa, $98,500 at Northern Illinois, and $102,000 at Central Michigan, to identify just a few schools in immediately adjacent states.

Wisconsin keeps shooting itself in the foot by draining resources from its public higher education system. If Scott Walker wants to transform UW-Madison from a world-class university, which it is and has long been, into a mediocre one (“good enough”), that’s not hard to accomplish. The harder challenge would be ever to reverse that change once it’s been accomplished.

17

@barrons what does semiprivate mean in this case?

18

The state contracts with an independent UW Madison for certain services–say providing 3500 annual slots for instate students at a fixed price. Otherwise UW operates independently much like UW Hospitals with own board etc.
Also plans are in place to retain key faculty with more private funds.
http://chancellor.wisc.edu/blog/new-opportunities-to-fund-cutting-edge-research/

19

The University of Michigan and the University of Virginia have pioneered a sort of public-private hybrid model that other public universities may begin to look at. Both schools faced drastic state budget cuts much earlier than most state flagships, and as a consequence needed to make up for lost state appropriations with other sources of funding. I believe both schools now get something like 5% of their annual operating budgets from their respective states, far lower than most publics. That required them to raise tuition, for one thing, and both were institutionally positioned to make those decisions without legislative interference. It also meant increasing OOS and international representation in the undergraduate student body and setting OOS tuition very near but slightly below the tuition at comparable private institutions. It meant becoming more heavily reliant on outside research grants, which Michigan in particular has been spectacularly successful at, with an annual research budget now well in excess of $1 billion, compared to state appropriations of around $200 million. And it meant building their endowments; Michigan’s now stands at around $10 billion, 9th largest among all colleges and universities, public or private, and UVA’s is at about $6 billion, good for 18th place in the latest NACUBO survey, ahead of, e.g., Cornell, Rice, Vanderbilt, and USC. Michigan and Virginia are still public institutions insofar as they still make a majority of their seats available to in-state students and offer substantial tuition discounts to state residents, as well as meeting 100% of need for in-state students; but they’re quasi-private insofar as they enroll large numbers of OOS students, set their tuition rates without legislative interference, and depend heavily, indeed primarily, on non-state revenue sources to keep the institution moving forward.

Wisconsin-Madison is well positioned on research grant funding; it’s one of the nation’s heaviest hitters in this area with around $1 billion in annual research expenditures. But its in-state tuition is still lower than Michigan’s or Virginia’s, and although it has a substantial OOS undergraduate population, about 1/3 of its OOS students are Minnesotans who enjoy tuition reciprocity, and its standard OOS tuition is lower than Michigan’s or Virginia’s. And Wisconsin’s endowment, while substantial at around $2.3 billion, is only about 1/4 of Michigan’s and well under half of UVA’s, the latter being a substantially smaller school.

There are probably people at UW-Madison who would like to move it closer to a Michigan/Virginia model, but it won’t happen overnight. It’s taken Michigan 30-40 years to build the endowment war chest it now has, and that’s in a state with a larger population base (72% larger) and more aggregate wealth (Michigan has about 50% more "ultra-high net worth individuals"worth $30+ million than Wisconsin). The concern at Wisconsin in the meantime would be that ongoing budget cuts, coupled with Gov. Walker’s apparent goal of bludgeoning the university into mediocrity, will drive away some of the academic talent that drives the research engine, while at the same time making the school less attractive to OOS applicants and also less attractive to big donors who are less likely to invest in a sinking ship than in an up-and-coming enterprise.

A lot of this, however, depends on governance arrangements. Michigan, and I believe Virginia, are blessed with independent governance structures that make those universities less subject to the whims of state legislative politics than most state universities.

20

My fear here in Wisconsin is that none of this will be able to happen fast enough, and the heavy hitters will be gone (retired/resigned/never took the job). There was a great piece by John Wiley in Madison Magazine recently about the changes. Another point–this child is looking at UWEC, not Madison. I don’t think anyone believes Eau Claire is going to go to a Virginia/Michigan model.

www.channel3000.com/madison-magazine/business-city-life/Former-UW-chancellor-offers-lament-for-Wisconsin/34421426