UW Madison or Oberlin?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Wisconsin
1

Hi - I wanted to get a bunch of opinions on my two college choices.

At Oberlin, I would be $43,974 in debt.
At Madison, I would be $25,891 in debt.

Collectively, my parents and I can contribute $33,000 to my college education. Therefore, I would be in around 11k of debt after Oberlin, but I could be debt free after Madison. I am very conflicted because I would rather go to Oberlin, but I don’t know how I could pass up an offer to graduate debt free.
At Oberlin, I would have to live and dine in a co op for all 4 years to come out with the 11k in debt. I don’t know how much I like that idea, after touring the co ops. That would give me around 5 hours of work a week in addition to my work study hours.
I like Madison, but all of my high school goes there, and after touring, all of the people who go there seem very similar. At Madison, however, I would be able to choose what house to live in and I would get a college meal plan. Madison is also only 1.5 hours away, whereas Oberlin is around 7.5.
I plan to major in international relations, and I don’t know which school would look better on my application, or which would give me better opportunities to succeed.
Sorry if all this information is jumbled around, but I would really appreciate any thoughts you guys have about the topic!

2

So, for what it is worth, my kid is a poli sci major at UW and the faculty, classes, opportunities are incredible. He has developed great relationships with faculty, who know him well, and write recs for internships, scholarships etc. The level of the coursework, the quality of the teaching, are all superb. UW is a big big school and you might pass your high school friends on State St or in a lecture class, but your friend group will evolve from your residence hall and your extra curriculars.

As an instate option, with less debt and more room to breath financially, I would think UW is a strong “yes” if you are comfortable with the size. My kid at UW loves it, whereas I know a lecture of 150 or more, even with discussion with a Ph.D. candidate, would not work for my younger son who is looking exclusively at smaller schools. Some people really are comfortable in both large and small settings, other strongly prefer one over the other. If you are comfortable with both, then I would say go to UW.

3

Look, there are 40,000+ students at UW-Madison. …it’s not going to feel remotely like an extension of high school despite ‘all of your high school going here’. Hundreds of kids from the public and private high schools in Madison go to UW-Madison and frankly it is probably nice to see an occasional familiar face but doesn’t detract from the college experience.

4

@Midwestmomofboys @Madison85 thanks, i’m more concerned about how similar everyone who goes to Madison is. they all seem to be like the people who go to my school, meaning they act/dress/think the same way.

5

Just because many from your HS go to UW it does not mean you will see them there. You have not yet met the thousands of UW students who are different from those you now know. You will meet like minded students in the dorm setting you choose and the classes plus activities you choose. I did not want to go the 8 miles to UW eons ago from my Madison suburb, but it was and is a world apart. I met foreign students plus those from far away states- the world came to me. Many top notch social science departments at UW as well.

I do not see how Oberlin students will be vastly different than the students you describe except that more are likely to afford things than some UW students like you. UW is a very liberal place with many different types of student.

You need to make a list of pros and cons for both schools. This list will include factors you have already mentioned (with more thought as to how plus/minus they really are). Then look at the course offerings and course requirements in your proposed major for each school. Next look at electives available at each school that might interest you. You may find many intriguing subjects pertinent to your proposed major available at UW that you won’t find at the smaller school.

Right now you are partly in love with the idea of leaving home and the sameness of your known world for something no one else you know is going for. But- with such a great flagship is Oberlin worth that much debt?

One possibility is doing one year at Oberlin and then transferring. However, if you fall in love even more there you won’t want to leave. You may, like so many before you who had no real choices because of costs, discover how wonderful UW is despite how many HS classmates also go there. Every UW student has a unique experience.

Whatever you decide do not look back. Enjoy your choice without regrets.

6

Go to Oberlin for the first one to two years. Take advantage of the much smaller intro classes at the LAC.

Then, when you are bored with the campus, transfer to Wisconsin and take advantage of the huge course catalog for the upperclass years, which will likely include availability of advanced courses in your specific sub-areas of interest.

That way you get the best of both worlds, while escaping the worst of both worlds.

7

And miss out on FIGs, residential LCs, and small classes in honors sections at UW-Madison the first two years.

8

@nenbe97 Thanks for the clarification about high school concerns. I would suggest that, with 28,000 undergrads, there are whole mini cultures at UW that you haven’t had the chance to see. The breadth of choices of what to get involved with – outdoors like Hoofers, or arts, or politics, etc – it is endless. Consider a learning community in the residence hall, if there is one which appeals to you – you would live with like-minded students who share at least some of your interests. Go to the Activities Fair in the Kohl Center in the fall, and sign up for stuff – you will then get emails about the organizations and the chance to explore.

I have to admit, I didn’t follow the cost calculations in your original post. It sounds like there is real debt with Oberlin vs. no debt with UW. IF – and only you can answer this – IF you are comfortable with the large university experience (unlike my younger son who is only looking at LACs because he knows he could not function well in a large environment), then I would say UW is the better choice because of the difference in debt. The concerns about everyone being the same, I think, would evaporate once you start getting involved in specific activities.

Good luck to you, they are both great schools.

9

@nenbe97 Oh my goodness! You are considering turning down the UW-Madison Chancellor’s Scholarship program offer including 4-year full tuition scholarship plus $800/year for books plus unique mentoring and support opportunities in exchange for $45k debt at Oberlin?

Have you calculated how many years it will take you to pay off that debt at $500/month?

10

http://provost.wisc.edu/about-the-program.htm

11

Maybe you would be interested in the Multicultural Learning Community.

12

http://www.housing.wisc.edu/residencehalls-lc-mlc.htm

13

http://registrar.wisc.edu/documents/Stats_CourseCredit_Fall_2013-2014.pdf
wow, even an advanced level course like Game theory in Econ enrolls 50 people.
That same course at Oberlin would probably have less than 5.

https://new.oberlin.edu/office/registrar/class-schedules/
(I don’t see actual enrollment, unfortunately, but for each Class schedule “LIM” on the far right is the stated enrollment limit).

Let’s take a widely popular intro. class on any campus, say Econ 101. At Oberlin that class meets for 2-1/2 hrs a week total, in variously 2 or 3 sessions, in classes limited in size to 50 students (though actual enrollment may well be lower), taught by a Prof, no TA.

At Madison, the link above shows that this course enrolled 1,408 students in Fall 2013 ?
I assume there was more than one lecture for that 1,408, right? How many? Two? Three? Four?
Weekly the class meets for (multiple hundred person) lectures for 2-1/2 hrs, in 2 sessions with the Prof, then additionally in a smaller 50- minute discussion section with a TA once a week . In the one semester I looked up, under one Prof for one class of Econ 101 there were 10 TAs, leading 23 discussion sections. What is the enrollment cap, if any, for the size of each discussion section, and what is their typical size?

14

So if you are asking about enrollment caps “if any” on Econ 101 discussion sections you are most likely not at all familiar with UW-Madison, or aware of smaller honors sections.

15

Yes I am not familiar. Please fill me in.

Also answer questions in #12 regarding typical sizes of lectures and discussion sections OP should reasonably expect if he/she were to take Econ 101, so comparison can be reasonably completed. What is the probable enrollment of the lecture and each of those 23 sections?

I don’t see any of those 23 sections listed as “honors” on the syllabus, FWIW, or
see any mention of honors in the posted course information.
Maybe there Is no “honors” applicable for such course? Or does it have an altogether different class number, is that the problem?

For an “honors” student that took Econ 101 in Fall 2014, what section would that have been in? What was the enrollment in that lecture? what was the enrollement
in that discussion section?

My S was invited to Honors at his state U. He declined, much to my disappointment, because they said it involved doing a lot more work in each course and he didn’t want to do it. What a horrible attitude, IMO. I don’t know if Honors entails the same type of additional commitment at Madison, Does it? Or whether OP has a better attitude than my son has about doing more work. Or not.

16

Has the OP asked about Econ 101?

@monydad If you are not familiar with UW-Madison then why are you providing advice to the OP about UW-Madison?

17

I do not post here to defend my posts from personal attacks by other posters, but rather to help people make informed matriculation decisions.

But just this once I will answer.

  1. Econ 101 is a typical freshman year course that, seems to me, might be a radically different experience at Oberlin than at Madison. Potentially. So I was using it as an example. Would you rather use Psych 101? Bio 101? I hope not,.since I already looked up Econ. But I’d do a different one.

  2. If YOU are not familiar with Oberlin why are YOU giving advice to OP?
    As it happens my D1 graduated from Oberlin.

In #12 I dug up some publicly posted information,
and in #14 I asked YOU guys, as the madison experts, to elaborate upon it. For OPs benefit.

But actually, on CC anyone can give advice to OP. No specific credentials
are required on CC to do that. And many people might still have relevant insights even if they hadn’t attended, or had a child attend, either institution.

18

All posters are free to respond in threads and it is up to the OP to decide what weight to put on responses. I haven’t seen any attacks but differences of opinion based on individual’s experience and perceptions.
Play nice.
ED
Mod

19

I went to UT-Austin, a HUGE school. I was an engineering major, but my favorite class was American History, which had over 309 students in it! The prof was such a good storyteller that I couldn’t wait to go to class. The professor was always available to talk, too. In fact, he tried to convince me to switch my major to history!

I am just saying that a large school has its advantages. I would probably recommend a large school to my kids, in fact.

20

@madison85 wait, I missed that the OP has that award? That is a no-brainer, in my mind.

Oberlin is a wonderful school with a very distinct flavor of student and atmosphere. I know Oberlin fairly well because both of my kids have visited it several times, have sat in on classes, met with profs etc.

However, for someone interested in international affairs, UW wins hands down. Poli Sci is ranked in the top 15 departments in the US.; the visiting speakers, the study abroad, the funding for students for summer research etc., are all phenomenal. Throw in the range of foreign languages taught live, through the intermediate/advanced level, and its a superb opportunity for someone interested in IR.

I’m not sure what monydad’s comments about class size etc contribute to the conversation, since that poster is not familiar with UW registration, courses, structure. Looking on the UW course list, there are 4 separate Micro lecture classes, each holding up to 335 students; each lecture has its own discussions sections of not more than 24 students. Those discussion sections are taught by Ph.D. candidates in Econ at UW – which is also a top 15 ranked department. Some of those are FIG sections, some are offered as part of the learning communities etc. Any Honors discussion sections would be led by the professor who conducts the lectures, as that is what defines an Honors only section of a lecture course. There seems to be a different course which is accelerated Micro/Macro combined which is Honors only.

More of interest to the OP, Intro to International Relations, has a maximum of 240 students, with discussion sections of 17 students. My kid took that class, and loved the prof and his TA. Beyond intro level Poli Sci classes, the classes get smaller, quickly. My kid still has some lecture classes in his major but will typically take the Honors discussion section to have section with the prof. Other classes in his major run between 20-40 students generally, and those may or may not have discussion sections; he has had classes as small as about 16 students in writing intensive classes in his major. The breadth of offerings in International Relations is extensive, my own kid has taken classes in nuclear proliferation, genocide, etc. The faculty are superb. My own kid has developed close relationships with faculty easily, and they have written recs for him, leading to summer incredible internships in his field.

IF – and this is what I said to the OP – IF this is a student who is comfortable with big and does not feel like they would be contorting themselves to survive in a university setting and could only function in a LAC setting, then UW is a clear choice to my mind. If, on the other hand, someone knows they could not do large lectures – and my younger son is one of these, he has said even the intro lectures at LACs which can hold 50-60 kids are too much for him – then that student should not choose UW.