<p>Hey Guys.</p>
<p>I was just admitted to UW-Madison and UCSD for undergrad and don't know where to go! I plan on majoring in political science major and attending grad. school later. </p>
<p>I live in northern California, but am not passionate about either leaving or staying instate. I've visited both campuses and love them both, so that doesn't help. Does anyone have an opinion or knowledge about either school? Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks so much!</p>
<p>Both are pretty even in academics. The main difference would be social and sports. There they are at opposite extremes. And weather--again pretty opposite.</p>
<p>hey seanspq, did you declare your major as political science when you applied for UCSD??</p>
<p>UCSD and Wisconsin are very very similarly ranked as overall institutions as they seem to sway places every year on US News rankings. Both are also very strong in poli sci, however UCSD is slightly stronger, being ranked number 7 in the country, while Wisconsin fell out of the top ten i believe a year or two ago. Since these universities are ranked so similar, and UCSD has a slightly better poli sci department, I would have a tough time personally paying for out of state tuition when UCSD is in state, and ranked even better in poli sci. UCSD is tougher to get into also than Wisconsin. So i would say the obvious answer is to go to UCSD being in state. I also would much rather be in San Diego than Madison.</p>
<p>Yea, I did declare my major as Poli Sci at UCSD. </p>
<p>Wow ucchris, I actually hadn't checked the poli sci rankings. That helps a lot! Thanks. I was set on San Diego when I visited, but the more people I talk to, the more I hear I should go to Madison. </p>
<p>When I told my friends I was applying to Madison, a lot of them thought it was my safety. It seems like because of the current reputation, a lot of kids (at least in CA) think its just a party school. On the other hand, a lot of adults I talk to see it as the more prestigious school. I don't know if it's because of Wisconsin's changing reputation, but the opinions I hear are polar opposites.</p>
<p>Wisconsin also attracts me because I think there will be more political activism and opportunities, being in the state capital. I don't know...but I think I'm leaning towards UCSD just because of location and academic rankings...</p>
<p>"Wisconsin also attracts me because I think there will be more political activism and opportunities, being in the state capital."</p>
<p>I disagree with this. U of Wisconsin may be in Wisconsin's state capital, Madison (255,000, 77th largest city in the United States) but compared to San Diego, which is the 2nd largest city in California and the 7th largest city in the United States (1.3+ million), i highly doubt it offers as many opportunities as San Diego. I agree you do get many different ideas of what U of Wisconsin represents. I believe it offers a little bit of both academics and party atmosphere. It is an excellent academic school (especially at the grad level) but is also one of the top 2 or 3 party schools in the nation as well. A lot of people hold Wisconsin Madison in very high academic regard, but many people who look at it as a safety and party school. I just dont believe paying out of state tuiton for Wisconsin Madison is worth it when you got into UCSD for in state tuition. UCSD is also tougher to get into. However, the schools are very comparable, but in poli sci UCSD is world reknown (ranked 7th in the country)and i know i would much rather be in San Diego than Wisconsin. That being said, go where you feel best about. If you liked UCSD go there. If you felt better about Wisconsin go there. You cant go wrong with either as both are high ranked universities. However to me out of state tuition at wisconsin is crazy when you got into a equal or better school in southern california for in state tuition. UCSD is a very academic focused school with lots of studying all the time. Wisconsin has good academics, but sports and such play avery large role in the university. In southern california i dont feel wisconsin is looked at as the more prestigious university. quite the opposite. UCSD is very well regarded along with UCLA in southern california, more so than Wisconsin. Most people in southern california dont even know Wisconsin is a good school. Across the country, mostly because of sports wisconsin is probably more well known amongst the general public.</p>
<p><--- UCSD graduate, class of 2006.</p>
<p>As a former UCSD student, I can tell you that UCSD is a very academically based college. It seems you are rather focused on rank/reputation, while UCSD is ranked rather high, their name is still not known as well as the other major UC's (Berkely and LA) and so if you're going to ride off reputation when you graduate... good luck. </p>
<p>Their poli sci program is rather decent. It's not perfect, but it's fair enough. The teachers from my understanding are alright but I must warn you, expect LARGE classes, i.e. 150+ students per class and you might find a few 35-50 student classes but those are rare. UCSD is a BIG school and so most majors will involve large classroom sizes. Obviously if you are pursuing poli sci, Law school is something to think about. The majority of poli sci majors that I knew, applied to law school. The average LSAT at UCSD is in the 160's, so UCSD is very competitive.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you're looking for in a college. Personally, if I could go back, I would look for 3 major things in a college:
1. Job Placement Program
2. College Life
3. Academic Curriculum</p>
<p>The point of college is to pursue a better life after you get your 'higher' education, so obviously, the colleges job placement program is very important. I can tell you that UCSD has a rather crappy job placement program in terms of NON-Science majors. Basically, if you graduate with a poli sci major and do not pursue law school, expect a low paying job if any job at all since UCSD isn't great at placing non-science majors.</p>
<p>UCSD's campus life is as good as you make it, overall compared to most college town campuses, UCSD is below average. UCSD is well known to be "UC Socially Dead." It's a commuter school and is usually full of UCLA rejects or Berkeley rejects so most people go home on weekends (large majority of students live in Irvine/LA/Riverside). That's not to say you won't find people, it's not empty but trust me, dorms are very empty usually on a weekend.</p>
<p>Finally, UCSD in terms of academic curriculum is fair. Again, for Poli Sci, UCSD has a good program overall, but compared to it's engineering/cs/pre-med programs it's mediocre at best. You will not get the education you desire compared to a college that is more focused on liberal arts and such. Remember, like I said before, UCSD is first an engineering/cs/pre-med school, they are liberal arts and what not second, a very very very distant second.</p>
<p>Anyway, overall, if you're looking to get into law school, I'd pick UCSD over Wisconsin simply because of the competitiveness and ranking of UCSD. Again the average LSAT = 160+, so most people get into good law schools and MANY UCSD students get into UCLA Law if they have a decent GPA (3.8+, 167+ LSAT). If you're thinking about getting a well rounded education, I'd perhaps go with something else.</p>
<p>just a note, if you do go to UCSD, don't go to revelle, it's a waste of time. transfer immediately to either Marshall (best place for a poli sci major) or Muir (easiest college BY FAR of the 6 at UCSD).</p>
<p>hope this helps.</p>
<p>"again, for Poli Sci, UCSD has a good program overall, but compared to it's engineering/cs/pre-med programs it's mediocre at best."</p>
<p>Not true. UCSD's poli sci is actually ranked higher than its engineering department and its bio (pre-med) department. Although i do agree with you that UCSD is known for its pre-med and sciences, where it is a powerhouse. Poli Sci at UCSD is very very well respected and actually ranked higher than both the bio and engineering departments. I do agree with you that UCSD is very competitive and the social life on campus is lacking. However being in San Diego, there are plenty of options such as the Gaslamp district in downtown, which offers some of the best nightlife in southern california, and Pacific Beach. But to say that UCSD's poli sci department is not as good as its bio department (premed) or engineering departments is simply not true. research your facts a bit more before posting that. while that is true with many of the social science and humanties departments deffiantly take a backseat to engineering, bio and other sciences, the exceptions are Political Science,ranked 7th in the country and numerous poli sci subdivisions are actually ranked in the top 3 in the country, and the economics department which is ranked #10 nationally. Other than that i think your post above was quite accurate. There are a lot of brainiacs at UCSD. My girlfriend and I were both Poli Sci majors at UCSD. She was stuck in Revelle and I was in Marshall. Deffiantly dont do Revelle, as she had a devil of a time getting out of it and into Marshall, however she eventually did. Revelle is emphasized for pre meds and other science fields, deff not social sciences or humanities. For Poli Sci I recommend Marshall, but other colleges such as Muir will also work. Also interesting I have found my degree at UCSD has held up quite well in poli sci in the job marketplace. I have been offered jobs at places like Google and Qualcomm, who both only interviewed me because of my strong degree from UCSD. However in California, a Stanford or UC Berkeley degree, in my opinion, garners significantly more prestige than a UCSD or UCLA degree. But again than can depend on your field.</p>
<p>"MANY UCSD students get into UCLA Law if they have a decent GPA (3.8+, 167+ LSAT)"</p>
<p>That high of score is not necessary out of UCSD to get into UCLA Law. While you are correct UCSD does place an enormous amount of kids into UCLA Law, those numbers you have are inflated. UCSD places the third most amount of kids out of any institution into UCLA Law, only laging UCLA and UC Berkeley at numbers one and two. That meens UCSD places more people into UCLA Law than Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, ect. But saying that a 3.8+ GPA and 167+ LSAT are whats needed to get into UCLA Law out of UCSD is not quite true. More like a 3.6-3.7 GPA and 166-168 LSAT. And I have heard of lower numbers getting into UCLA Law out of UCSD. The numbers you gave were somewhat inflated. You deffianlty dont need a 3.8+ GPA out of UCSD to get into UCLA Law. Hell thats Magna Cum Laude numbers.</p>
<p>"Lots of kids" do not know Wisconsin from a hole in the ground and to base any decision on some dubious party school ranking is absurd. Most people who actually know about schools put UW in the top group of state universities and have since the early 1900's when the top universities founded the American Association of Universities which included Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Hopkins, Princeton, Stanford, UCB, Chicago, Mich, Wisconsin, and Yale. UW has one of the highest percentages for producing undergrads getting PhD's of any state school. It also produces the most CEO's of ANY school.
UCSD is not really more elite in student quality. The average SAT is 25 points lower than at UW (1268).
<a href="http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/enroll/compare.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/enroll/compare.pdf</a></p>
<p>i was a ucsd econ grad, as you said, ucsd is top 10 in econ and i was pretty darn excited about it. the reality of it after graduating? ucsd's econ department was HORRIBLE. the teachers were all academic based teachers, the material was not relevant and overall, the theory was just lacking in overall relevance to what could be applied to an actual job or whatever.</p>
<p>rankings are just so stupid, unless you're an ivy league where your ranking has been proven over the past century, they don't really count for much.</p>
<p>ucsd is nationally ranked in the top 20 for a number of science and liberal arts majors, but the reality of it is that only the science majors are recognized by the big companies.</p>
<p>i'm assuming that because you got an interview with google and qualcomm, you must have been a model student, well that's excellent, but don't count the majority of people here or that went to ucsd as model students. you should know that google and qualcomm are one of the biggest recruiters at ucsd but not for non-science majors and even for science majors many of my friends were rejected, many many many of them and they all had excellent credentials with INSANELY high gpas for their majors as well as great internships. i don't know what you were offered at qualcomm or google as a poli sci major but in general, they don't recruit heavily from poli sci, you might get into marketing or hr or something like one of my friends did, but the experience and what it brings to your resume in the end is less in significance you could have gotten at a company more known for marketing/hr or whatever.</p>
<p>honestly, ucsd's placement program for non-science majors just isn't good enough. check out career.ucsd.edu and look at the companies that recruit at ucsd and look at what the BIG companies recruit from.</p>
<p>finally, for ucla law, at least for the class of 2009, ucla law was not kind to many of my buddies who applied. 3.8+ gpa's, high 160's, low 170 lsats, all rejected. out of 20+ friends who applied, i only know 4 who got in and they had much better credentials, i.e. 3.9, 175 on the lsat. you gotta realize also, a 3.6+ in poli sci isn't saying much, ucla gets so many 3.6+ poli sci majors but really, you should know as the general consensus as ucsd is that poli sci is one of the easiest majors available, so a 3.6+ isn't that hard to get. thus, if anyone could pull of a 3.6+, they should be able to get into ucla law right? not so much, ucla law is a top 15 nationally ranked law school, it takes a lot more than a high gpa to get in, if the average lsat for ucsd is around a 164 or so, that means the majority of poli sci majors at ucsd got in to ucla law because most of them had the 3.6+ gpa, but you know that's not true. did you apply? perhaps you did, but in the end, stats again are just stats. the reality is much different.</p>
<p>you're going to obviously have different opinions on this than me, but perhaps you're just that lucky guy from what it sounds like that came out ion top but that usually isn't the case for most people. i was very competitive in college with a good gpa and an econ major and i got into a good company but when i ask myself if it was ucsd's name who got me in, i can say a big fat no. my employer also agrees with me. ucsd just isn't a liberal arts school, it's a science school, rankings in general are inflated and you gotta look at the facts surrounding you. gotta get to work, but that's just my thoughts, you're entitled to your own opinion but i just got by what i have experienced as well as my friends.</p>
<p>Data mostly drawn from USNWR</p>
<p>OBJECTIVE DATA</p>
<p>Undergraduate Enrollment:
UC San Diego: 20,679 U Wisconsin: 30,106</p>
<h1>and % of students who are in-state:</h1>
<p>UC San Diego: 20,265 (98%) U Wisconsin: 18365 (61%)</p>
<p>Cost (Tuition & Fees):
UC San Diego: $7318 (IS) U Wisconsin: $20,284</p>
<p>Graduation & Retention Rank
UC San Diego: 32nd U Wisconsin: 49th
Students expected to graduate in 6 years:
UC San Diego: 87% U Wisconsin: 73%
of students who do graduate in 6 years:
UC San Diego: 85% U Wisconsin: 78%</p>
<p>Faculty Resources Rank:
UC San Diego: 84th U Wisconsin: 69th
-% of classes with <20 students
UC San Diego: 46% U Wisconsin: 43%
-% of classes with 50+ students
UC San Diego: 30% U Wisconsin: 18%
-Faculty/student ratio
UC San Diego: 19/1 U Wisconsin: 13/1</p>
<p>Student Selectivity Rank:
UC San Diego: 29th U Wisconsin: 44th
-Average SAT/ACT:
UC San Diego: 1150-1370 U Wisconsin: 26-30
-% of students ranking in top 10% of high school class
UC San Diego: 99% U Wisconsin: 56%
-% acceptance rate
UC San Diego: 44% U Wisconsin:68% </p>
<h1>of NMS Finalists from 2005:</h1>
<p>UC San Diego: 39 U Wisconsin: 31</p>
<h1>of 1500 scorers enrolled and % of student body:</h1>
<p>UC San Diego: 1349 (7%) U Wisconsin: 561 (2%)</p>
<p>Financial Resources Rank:
UC San Diego: 27th U Wisconsin: 47th </p>
<p>Alumni Giving % and Rank:
UC San Diego: 10% (163rd) U Wisconsin: 14% (109th)</p>
<p>SUBJECTIVE DATA</p>
<p>Peer Assessment:
UC San Diego: 3.8 U Wisconsin: 4.2</p>
<p>The objective data favor UCSD in most categories with greatest difference in Financial Resources and Selectivity (UCSD's Top 10% number likely swelled due to location in nation's most populous state). U Wisconsin is 50% larger and has much, much greater geographic diversity as there are nearly 12,000 non-Wisconsins in Madison while only a little over 400 non-Californians are at UCSD. Among academics, U Wisconsin is preferred, perhaps owing to its stronger research reputation. Both schools play well with employers in their home regions, but neither travels particularly well.</p>
<p>"ucla law is a top 15 nationally ranked law school, it takes a lot more than a high gpa to get in, if the average lsat for ucsd is around a 164 or so, that means the majority of poli sci majors at ucsd got in to ucla law because most of them had the 3.6+ gpa, but you know that's not true."</p>
<p>First of all the average lsat at UCSD is not close to a 164.... im not sure where you got that at. second of all even if it was a 164, i said you need between a 166-167 to get in. of course this is with an excellent gpa. however a 3.8 is a bit high. the average admit into the school is a 3.67 GPA and 166 LSAT. so saying you need a 3.8+ gpa and a 167+ lsat is a stretch. which is what i stated. </p>
<p>"ucla law was not kind to many of my buddies who applied. 3.8+ gpa's, high 160's, low 170 lsats, all rejected. out of 20+ friends who applied, i only know 4 who got in and they had much better credentials, i.e. 3.9, 175 on the lsat. "</p>
<p>Man. this is not the norm. I dont know who you are friends with or if they just had awefull luck. But you deff do not need a 3.9+ and 175+ LSAT to get into UCLA Law. That is way way above their averages. You could get into columbia and possibly even Harvard Law with those numbers. I dont know you come off thinking you need stats like that to get into UCLA Law. But just because a couple of your friends got in with those stats and a few others got denied with good stats doesnt meen that is the norm. Far from it. I know a few people who got into UCLA Law with under a 167 LSAT and under a 3.7 GPA. Both of these people went to UCSD. but i do not claim to that because a couple of my friends got into UCLA Law with those stats that this is the norm. </p>
<p>"in the end, stats again are just stats. the reality is much different."</p>
<p>umm the idea of stats is to give you an idea of reality. while reality can differentiate itself from stats, the stats are generally pretty reliable when attempting to determine your odds. a 3.7 and 166 or 167 LSAT is usually solid enough to get most people into UCLA, especially from a school with a good ranking like UCSD. I understand this is not always the case, but the majority of people with a 3.7 and 167 from a well ranked school will get into UCLA law. This isnt really debatable. Im not saying people have not been denied before with these stats, possibly even some of your friends, however this is not the norm. You cant calculate odds because a couple of your friends got denied with good stats, you need to look at the broader picture.</p>
<p>"i'm assuming that because you got an interview with google and qualcomm, you must have been a model student, well that's excellent, but don't count the majority of people here or that went to ucsd as model students. "</p>
<p>Hardly. I graduated with a 3.5 GPA. Not bad, especially from UCSD, but certainly not at the very top of my class.</p>
<p>"you should know as the general consensus as ucsd is that poli sci is one of the easiest majors available, so a 3.6+ isn't that hard to get."</p>
<p>Really I always felt/heard that Communications, History, and numerous other majors were significantly easier than Poli Sci. However, we are all entitled to are opinions. But i have never heard that a 3.6 at UCSD in poli sci is easy to get. Are you kidding me. You must be hanging out with some damn smart kids, cause the average GPA at UCSD is a 2.93 GPA. So trust me, a 3.6 in any field at UCSD is not easy to get or to graduate in. Hell, no matter what you major, even communications, you still have to take all the GE classes which at UCSD is damn tough.</p>
<p>"UCSD is not really more elite in student quality. The average SAT is 25 points lower than at UW (1268)."</p>
<p>NOT TRUE. Check the seletivity rating again before making that statement. </p>
<p>Student Selectivity Rank:
UC San Diego: 29th U Wisconsin: 44th </p>
<p>Hence, UCSD is more selective. Its GPA for entering freshmen is also significantly higher than Wisconsin Madisons.
And although acceptance rate is not necessarily a determinent of selectivity, the difference in acceptance rates between these two schools should also be noted.</p>
<p>ucchris,
I am big admirer of UCSD and think it deserves far greater national recognition, perhaps even to the level of UCLA. However, I urge you to be careful with reading these numbers too literally. </p>
<p>As you probably know, the ACT is favored by midwestern schools more than the SAT and the large majority of U Wisconsin applicants submitted ACT scores. However, for those submitting and enrolling who used SAT scores (about 31%) the 25/75 range was 1160-1370, or almost identical to UCSD. </p>
<p>The Selectivity rating is weighted by USNWR and actually favors schools, like UCSD, that have large percentages of Top 10% high school scorers. As California is the most populous state with over 35mm people, UC schools are impacted by this high number and their demand for college enrollment places. This leads to extremely high numbers of Top 10% scorers and the usefulness of this number, as applied to evaluating California schools, is lessened. For example, UC Santa Cruz has 96% top 10% scorers and UC Riverside has 94% top 10%, but I think you would agree that the students of these schools are less strong than those at UCSD (with 99%) despite the relative closeness of their percentage of top 10% scorers. Also, the mandate of the UCs is oriented to serving those in the top 10% of their high school class. Many other colleges have no such requirement and take quality students below that level, eg, Stanford has only 89%. </p>
<p>Having said all of that, some of this same logic can be applied to U Wisconsin and their top 10% scorers are well below UCSD's range (56% for U Wisconsin to 99% for UCSD) so I do think that UCSD enrolls a stronger overall student body. </p>
<p>As for high school GPA, I would caution you against using this number at all. UCSD has a very impressive number (3.9 vs 3.7 for U Wisconsin), but the reader has no way to evaluate the standards applied in the grading that makes up those scores. There is no accountability for curriculum, strength of high school, grade inflation or deflation at a high school, etc. In short, it is nearly impossible to put this number into measurable construct. For example, a high school in Watts compared to a high school in Pasadena might each statistically produce a 3.8 student, but I suspect that you might not want to consider them as equals as their schools are different, their classes are different, their peers are different, their teachers are different, etc. Interpreting and comparing GPAs across colleges is difficult to do with any precision. </p>
<p>On the positive side for UCSD, I believe that academics greatly underrate the quality of teaching that goes on there and the Peer Assessment score, more than any other variable, is what holds UCSD back.</p>
<p>Heyy</p>
<p>That was all very informative. The data from hawkette definitely reinforces what I have heard of UCSD's excellent academic reputation.</p>
<p>I wasn't sure if I wanted to go to UCSD at first because I did think of it as a "science school," but hearing that poli sci is ranked 7th in the country changed my mind. It looks like I have to take a closer look at that ranking and decide if the level of education in the poli sci program matches its placement...</p>
<p>I'm happy to hear about Marshall though! I am in Marshall and liked what I saw when I visited. </p>
<p>UCCHRIS: do you have any information about Marshall you think I should know? I wasn't able to see the dorm rooms while I was there and was wondering if they're nice. </p>
<p>Here's my big question: Rankings and graduate school aside, did you enjoy your four years at UCSD? Were you constantly studying, or were you able to have fun as well? Most importantly, do you think you made the right choice about attending UCSD, and do you have any regrets?? </p>
<p>I am going to live on campus and have absolutely no where to go to off campus, so the "commuter school" reputation does kind of scare me. I am thinking about joining a frat if I go to UCSD for the option to party. I wouldn't want to join an intense-partying frat, but just something to have a social life...</p>
<p>All the information you guys are giving me is extremely helpful. Thanks a lot!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am thinking about joining a frat if I go to UCSD for the option to party. I wouldn't want to join an intense-partying frat, but just something to have a social life...
[/quote]
There are frats at UCSD, but no frat houses. There isn't much of a reason to join the frats at UCSD....</p>
<p>I think you are underestimating UW-Madison's academic reputation. It is one of the best public schools in the country and has a huge network that will help you find internships and a job after college.</p>
<p>San Diego is called University of California Socially Dead for a reason. The campus empties out on the weekends. There is very little fun to be had at UCSD. If you are only going to college to study and get good grades, then by all means go to UCSD. When choosing a school, you might want to consider what the social life is like at the school.</p>
<p>One last thing I need to warn you about; at UCSD you will develop a disease known as Triton Eye.</p>
<p>I would strongly disagree with Hawette's unfounded assertion that a Wisconsin degree does not travel well. There are nearly 4000 alums living in the Seattle area and over 25,000 in California with equally large numbers on the east coast. Wisconsin is well known in the Northeast where it has been popular for many decades and it has become very popular in California despite the weather. Business and engineering grads can have a good choice of jobs on either coast if they want.</p>
<p>As to the Poli Sci ranking, UW is still in the Top 15 and only dropped due to some high profile retirements. They have been replaced with top young hires who will be well known in a few years.</p>
<p>How much money do your parents make? If your parents can afford UW-M out of state and it's not an issue financially, go there. It will be a ****LOAD more fun.</p>
<p>However, if you are like most people and cost is an issue, UW-M does not warrant the out of state fee's when UCSD is very comparable and in-state. If this was Yale vs. UCSD, I think you may want to take some loans out. But then again, that is a personal choice. </p>
<p>Unless you are a HUGE partier, I would pick UCSD because of it's academic quality/cost ratio since you are in state.</p>
<p>Im thinking u and Planters shud go to UCSC together and make some PB & J 's together. ; )</p>
<p>I actually agree with Mike. Cost is a personal decision. I can guarantee four years in Madison will result in a lifetime's worth of good memories and it's not just the social life. It's a special spirit and camaraderie mixed with a unique sense of humor and outlook on life.</p>