UW-Madison or UGA?

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>My son has several nice college choices and is pretty much down to these two schools - he has been accepted at both. I'll try to give some basic background/interests but don't want to bias your input with too much info or my opinion yet. I am hoping this post will allow us to "think out loud" and "help me help him" sort the choices from an objective viewpoint. I also posted this in the college search forum, but thought more parents might weigh in from here.</p>

<p>We live in Virginia so both are OOS public universities. Costs for each are very comparable so remove cost as a deciding factor. Both are a long distance from home (other than driving for initial freshman move in, he will fly back/forth to school - time and costs to do so are similar). He has visited both and loved both. DS is not sure on an exact career path so wants a school where he can pursue numerous options... that said, he is considering a pre-med path though not necessarily with a bio or chem major. He also likes the social sciences so something with good science and social sciences (bio, chem, history, poli sci, econ) as well as good potential for acceptance at grad or med school as an option. Not interested in hard sciences (engineering, computer science, physics), business, or languages as a major focus at this time. Perhaps some combo of science/social in something like environmental policy??? Basically wants a strong liberal arts education with potential for research, internships or other specialized opportunities as his interests develop.</p>

<p>We looked at a large variety of schools and he was really drawn to the larger university settings with lots of vibe and a great college town. He wants "the whole college experience" with big sports (as a fan to watch and to play intramurals), parties, interesting lectures/speakers, etc... He loves a good music scene (again, both to go to concerts as well as practice rooms and such to play his guitar). He'd prefer a more liberal school or at least one with lots of ideas and tolerance and variety. He doesn't know anyone really at either school, but a couple of his buddies are considering UGA. He doesn't care for the cold, but I think would deal with it if all else points to UW. He loves the outdoors in general (both have advantages here - Wisco cold, but the lake and bike trails etc...). He is social and loves meeting new people.</p>

<p>So, where would you choose or recommend and why? I will share some of my opinions and other info as the thread progresses. </p>

<p>Thanks!!</p>

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<p>I'd go for the stronger school--Madison. I hear it is a great college town too.</p>

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<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I'm from Wisconsin, have visited Madison often and so can only speak regarding UW- Madison. Madison has big sporting events, parties (see Princeton review, I think it ranks as one of the tops for this. Do some reading about Halloween), lots of cultural/music performance, and is a very liberal town and school. Plenty to do. Tolerance? You've got it. Wisconsin as a state has a "progressive" tradition. Yes,there are trails for biking, etc. Good park system. And you are correct, it gets COLD here (zero and below for a few days at a time, off and on, mostly during December/January/sometimes February.) Make sure he has a down jacket if he decides on "Mad-town." </p>

<p>I have no experience with Georgia so cannot speak to that. </p>

<p>Just giving straight information, no opinion.</p>

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<p>I always advise going to the place farther from home, or in a more culturally different region from home, which I think would be Madison in your case.</p>

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<p>The professors may be liberal at UGA, and that isn't even a sure thing. But most of the students aren't. Georgia is one of the "reddest" states in the country. This legislative session, a state legislature tried to demand the firing of some professors at UGA and Georgia State who list sexual topics among their expertise.</p>

<p>UW-Madison is probably the direct opposite of UGA.</p>

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<p>Madison is a great place--has everything your son is looking for--your post pretty much describes UW-Madison.</p>

<p>Can't speak to UGA.</p>

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<p>it gets COLD here (zero and below for a few days at a time, off and on, mostly during December/January/sometimes February.)</p>

<p>Uh... yes! I went to grad school at UW-Mad, and unless you really understand what this means, it be misleading. We had lots of days below zero, including wind chills of 30 to 50 degrees below zero. You might want to chek into the average weather/temps to be sure you have a good picture of that.</p>

<p>Liberal? Oh, yes! And I assume that since you're looking for liberal and "accepting," you mean accepting of liberal views. The environment can sometimes be hostile against conservative views. But, it conservative isn't a concern, he should be good!</p>

<p>It's a strong school with lots of neat stuff going on around there!</p>

<p>I don't have any other info, but thought I'd add my 2 cents... for what it's worth. Good luck!</p>

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<p>If he'd "prefer a more liberal school or at least one with lots of ideas and tolerance and variety" then I'd say it's definitely UWM. I'm from GA and although UGA is more tolerant than ever, its roots are still strongly southern and conservative. And the surrounding area makes UGA seem like Berkely.</p>

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<p>Fantastic weather, beautiful women, much better football team in the strongest conference in the country -- UGA, hands down!</p>

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<p>UGA is certainly more conservative than the average college, but it actually makes for a far more politically diverse campus than most college campuses. The College Republicans and the Young Democrats attract similar sized audiences nowadays and there are plenty of vocal Greens on campus. Professors trend liberal, especially in the humanities, but most are pretty good about avoiding intensely charged politics. Also, the city of Athens is extremely liberal. Not just compared to the rest of GA, but in general- there are plenty of organic food places, a few co-ops, several vegetarian-only restaurants, and lots of protests. Athens also has an incredible music scene with a great variety of venues and bands. </p>

<p>Big 10 football's got nothing on SEC football. Enough said. </p>

<p>UGA actually has some pretty good biological sciences- part of the reason a few state legislators pitch a fit every now and then is because UGA has 3 stem cell lines and there's a lot of biotech research going on. Political science is definitely improving and the Econ department is fairly good as well. Academics, like at most large state schools, are what you want to make of them. Great Honors program that you can transfer into after one or two semesters as well that has a strong emphasis on undergraduate research.</p>

<p>And UGA also has a lake and bike trails, albeit on a smaller scale than UW's. The Appalachian Mountains are about an hour and a half north and there are some large lakes nearby that are good for water sports. </p>

<p>Both schools I'd imagine are heavily regional though, so your decision might just come down to what part of the country he wants to live in.</p>

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<p>I did my graduate work at Wisconsin. Madison rocks. Cosmopolitan and beautiful and big arts scene and a state capitol. Passionate, engaged students--they never have stopped protesting there. Also, coming from Northern Virginia, I particularly appreciated how large the foreign population at the school was. (Back in the day, I think we heard second only to UT in % of foreign students?)</p>

<p>Your son wouldn't choose a school based on a football team, would he? (Besides, I'm pretty sure a badger could take a dog. . .)</p>

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<p>Another vote for Wisconsin. Strong academics and a progressive political climate. Madison is the quintessesntial college town.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the valuable input. Great stuff!!</p>

<p>OK, as we pretty much knew, he can clearly have an awesome sports experience at either! SEC and Big 10 are both great and I think he'd be happy with either - no need to pick sides at this juncture ;-)</p>

<p>Madison and Athens are both awesome college towns - in fact, each town was a major factor in his choosing these as his top 2. Music, restaurants, "funky" feel, friendly even though the vibe is a bit different. Madison may offer a bit more as the city is larger and also state capital, but Athens is also lovely with lots to offer. Weather gets the nod in Athens for sure (and the gorgeous girls did not escape his notice - I am sure they are gorgeous at UW, too, but we just couldn't see when they were covered in full weather protection :-)! ) After enjoying a GLORIOUS late August day in Madison, we did make sure to re-visit at the end of January after he was accepted. We took our tour on a ONE degree morning. It freaked him out a bit, but he was ok. I told him we would just get a "big honking Michelin man parka" and he'd learn to deal - plus, the library is warm so he can just spend lots of time there! LOL. He loved the lake, and it was at least SUNNY with the cold. :-)</p>

<p>Perhaps I overstated the "liberal thing" as we live in a very conservative "red" area - I've never been 100% comfortable with it (DH and I from NY and Baltimore area), but he's grown up here so is more used to it. Although he would definitely like a more liberal or diverse setting, Athens would probably qualify compared to our home town. And, while not super religious, he is one of a very few Jewish kids at his school (I can literally count the number in the whole high school on my fingers) so it would be nice to have more of a religious mix as well as some international students, etc... maybe that is my bias (then again, I went to W&M which is considered fairly homogeneous and loved it so who knows?). </p>

<p>OK, so let's talk more about the MAIN reason for going to college - ACADEMICS! This is where I go back and forth and am of two minds. Obviously both schools have amazing educational opportunities with many bright, motivated students. I believe that college is what you make of it and, should he choose to fully avail himself of the many opportunites provided, he could get an excellent education and thrive at either school. And, I recognize that "rankings," "ratings," reputation, prestige... are not everything. BUT it is hard to ignore that they do play a role in grad/med school acceptance, job recruitment, etc... and by most measures U of Wisconsin seems to be the "stronger" academic school with a great reputation. I mean, they have like 70 programs in various fields that are considered "top 10" in the nation. UGA has some programs that are very tops as well, but given that DS is not 100% what he wants to major in, does it make sense academically not to choose UW? DS is quite bright with decent stats, but he not likely to be THE tippy top at either school. Honors might be a good option for him at UGA, but he is not a "high intensity academic" destined to be a Rhodes scholar - he is a hard worker and likes to think and discuss - he reads for pleasure a lot - he also wants balance, fun and quality of life - motivated, but not ultra-driven or uber-competitive with peers. Hope that gives a picture although his school choices might already have done that.</p>

<p>This is where I will betray my bias - I was always raised to believe you go to the "BEST" school you can get into at which you will also be happy and able to be successful. How much difference is there really between them? What about getting into graduate or med school (if he sticks with that)? In the end it is truly his choice, and we will support whatever he wants to do - really. It is his life to make of it what he will. It is possible to go to "Joe Schmoe" college and have a great and successful life and career, and it is also possible to go to Ivy U and not. </p>

<p>Phew, thanks. If you are still reading, thank you. It is helpful just to put it "on paper" and step back a bit. I welcome any other thoughts, suggestions, observations. In particular, from an academic standpoint... how significant is the difference and does it matter given that they are both good schools?</p>

<p>By the way, he would probably SAY he is leaning towards UW, but I get a sense that he also really likes UGA and is conflicted which is why I am writing this - to see if reading comments from outside, objective folks helps settle what is right for him in his mind. We know lots of kids choosing and making such the FINAL choice is hard for most. They've worked so hard to have CHOICES and are now justifiably relishing them.</p>

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<p>Just a quick thought- on one of the threads someone talks about UGA and the great opportunities that they had there.</p>

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<p>Was he accepted to the Honors college at UGA? That offers great opportunities.</p>

<p>My H went to UW Madison and we live in GA, so can give you a bit of a balanced perspective, I hope. Neither of my kids wanted the huge university envt. so neither applied to UGA or UW. </p>

<p>UW is clearly more liberal than UGA in its political "feel". Not sure you can get too much more liberal than UW, LOL. Academics are strong at both schools (probably better at UW in some programs), but if he's in the UGA honors program he'll get preferential registration and not get closed out of courses, etc. You might also want to check the budgets at both schools to be sure neither is facing any severe budget cuts that affect TAs, class size, etc. </p>

<p>UGA has really tightened up on its alcohol policy-- so if he is a big partier, you might want to be cognizant of that as well.</p>

<p>Weather?? Well, no comparison. UGA had a freak snowstorm this year (4-6") and classes were cancelled. The start of the Appalachian trail isnt too far from Athens, and there are many lakes and rivers for watersports within driving distance too. Athens and Madison are both great college and music towns. Athens also has an artistic community (potters, etc) nearby as well. </p>

<p>Athens is also starting a med school program (cant recall if its an extension of MCG or a separate program) but if he's considering med school, it might be a good foot in the door. That said, UW's med school is outstanding.</p>

<p>Do check on the honors program thing and potential budget cuts. That could make a difference in my opinion. Oh... btw-- the girls at UGA are beautiful!!!</p>

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<p>ingerp, while you can always be hopeful for the future, no Badger has taken a Dawg yet! Georgia has never lost to Wisconsin, defeating the Badgers 24-21 in 2005, and 33-6 in 1998. I remember that 1998 game -- Wisconsin made Mike Bobo (who completed 26 of 28 passes) look like an All-America QB, and Georgia made Ron Dayne (the Big Ten player of the year who managed 38 yards against UGA) look like a plodding undersized lineman trying to play running back. Indeed, in the past 20 years, Georgia is 7 wins and 0 losses against Big Ten teams in Bowl games, including wins over Ohio State, Michigan State, Purdue and Wisconsin. And I know it pains Big Ten fans to think about what Florida and LSU did to Ohio State, the "class of the Big Ten", in recent years as the SEC was stacking 3 straight BCS national championships (and counting). Ouch. Football isn't really that close (and UGA has won national championships in football, baseball, golf, tennis, gymnastics, swimming, etc.). Gorgeous women isn't even in the same ballpark. Weather certainly isn't close. Academics is, however, fairly close, and shouldn't present a substantial difference in chances for grad/med school or employment opportunities. Pick the "best" school overall, based on the criteria most important to your son, not the #35 school over the #58 school in the U.S. News & World rankings.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all who took the time to share - all valuable. DS read all the posts on both threads last night and seemed to appreciate the additional input. We are all still processing everything (visits, comments, school info, etc...), but he hopes to make a choice within the next week or so. :-)</p>

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<p>razordad: If based on the women, I'd rec Wisconsin over GA every day. I just prefer that German-Scandinavian Nordic look in the Wisconsin-Minnesota region over the Scots-Irish look that dominates the South. Just personal preference, I guess. :)</p>

<p>On a serious note, I agree that USNWR rankings are a silly way to make a decision. It's not like the choice is between a ranked national university and a third-tier school. Both schools have big time academics and big-time athletics. And, in all fairness, rural Wisconsin isn't exactly a left-wing paradise either. I know. I've been there. In Wisconsin, you've got Madison and Milwaukee and in Georgia you've got Athens and Atlanta. There are plenty of backwards folks in both states, outside those islands of moderation. </p>

<p>Personally, I could not do Dixie, especially if I was Jewish.</p>

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<p>Over the last 5 bowl seasons the Big 10 and SEC are tied 9-9.
SEC basketball is horrible and that is the second most popular college game. I believe UW has beaten UGA several times in basketball. While UW basketball was down a little tthis year they won the Big 10 last year and have been to the NCAA 11 straight years. This year they beat ACC Tourney Champs FSU.
Nobody cares about the minor sports that attract friends and family to most games. UW has a third strong spectator sport in ice hockey which attracts over 10,000/game.</p>

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<p>FSU did not win the ACC basketball tourney this year, they lost in the finals.</p>

<p>The number of bowl wins of SEC v Big 10 is not a valid comparison...there are a lot of shoddy bowls out there with mediocre match ups. Try comparing BCS appearances instead.</p>

<p>There is no football in the nation like SEC football. Not in terms of talent but in terms of spirit of the fans. I have lived all over the US and nothing compares to SEC football mania. If you have never experienced it then you have no idea what it is like.</p>

<p>UGA girls are drop dead gorgeous! Girls also outnumber guys so the odds are favorable in that respect. I lived in Minnesota and I can tell you first hand that there is no comparison between a southern belle and a mid west beauty. Scot - Irish influence????? Where the heck did that come from??? There are more gorgeous blondes at UGA than should be allowed.</p>

<p>SEC rivalry is intense because there are so many great football programs within a short drive from UGA....FLorida, Auburn, Bama, USC, Tennessee. Kids and fans can easily travel to games within a couple of hours and head back afterwards. Then there is the UGA-UF game that is so large it has to be held in Jacksonville on neutral ground...it is known as the worlds largest cocktail party and it is intense. The SEC consistently has several teams in the top ten, and more in the top twenty so the rivalries are insane!!</p>

<p>UGA in general is considered conservative but as with any large university this is a blanket statement that is not applicable to all students or student groups. </p>

<p>Student life does not revolve around being Greek, although the Greek system is a very strong and respected institution. </p>

<p>Ignore USNWR rankings because they don't tell you how much of a difference there is between a #30 school and a #50 school. Is there a huge gap or do these schools only differ marginally? What is important is that they are top tier schools. There are plenty of amazingly smart students and professors at UGA so your son should be able to find like minded compadres easily.</p>

<p>Athens - home to REM and the B-52's!!!! </p>

<p>Madison is an amazing city and UW is a really great school, but UGA has the better weather hands down!</p>

<p>UW is an amazing school and Madison is amazing!</p>