The facts should be presented whether they lead to more people getting vaccinated or less. That’s been a big part of why many diverse groups are reluctant. They just want the facts. They don’t want this message suppressed or that message shouted because it pushes a side. Many would just rather have the facts reported as they are. If kids are less vulnerable or elderly are more vulnerable then just report the numbers and facts. If a certain portion of people have side effects from the vaccine, report them. If most people do great, report that but give both sides. Report numbers of breakthrough cases and numbers of unvaccinated getting sick and dying. People can see the difference. If there is information regarding polio and what it was like, report that. People shouldn’t be denied information just because it might be unpopular with some.
The facts are there. They are ALWAYS easily accessible for anyone who chooses to look at them. If someone doesn’t have the facts by now, it is 100% because they don’t want to know them. I doubt there is a person in this country who, at the very least, hasn’t heard of the CDC. Any media source/politician/citizen that is claiming the government is hiding facts, suppressing them, pushing them aside, politicizing them, etc…is gaslighting for their own purposes.
I have heard several here ask for numbers regarding cases, hospitalizations and deaths of fully vaccinated people in relation to unvaccinated. There are pockets where this information is available but it’s not widespread. These numbers if they were widely distributed would potentially show people actual data regarding the effects of the vaccine. Some people don’t want to be told trust us, the vaccine is great, they might want to see the actual numbers. Many minorities are understandably hesitant because of past practices. I think they deserve the facts, the actual numbers, not just someone’s summary.
The facts are some have been harmed by the vaccines. What are those actual numbers? I’m sure they are miniscule, why not give them. To try to somehow ignore them because they are potentially insignificant or might lead to a negative view of the vaccine could lead to people thinking things are being covered up. Put the information out there good and bad.
In the end the vaccine is a great product. I am very happy to have taken advantage of it. I still want to whole truth about the ins and outs of it publicized. To do less just feeds into different people’s reluctance. It’s a good product, it’s not perfect, put that out there.
Here you go. I found that in literally seconds. The facts are EASY to find.
I take @bennty’s post to have been in jest . . . if the anti-vaxxers are made aware of the facts relating to polio then they’ll resist the polio vaccine as well. The “joke” is that no one in their right mind questions the effectiveness and necessity of the polio vaccine, and drawing attention to polio might spread the covid vaccine lunacy to polio vaccines and other vaccinations.
Again, I think you missed the point. Regardless, the facts have been presented. Repeatedly. Yet many people have made it abundantly clear they are more interested in punditry than facts. When people are following the advice of Joe Rogan over the scientific community, the claim they just want the facts is shown to be empty.
Minorities have a higher rate of vaccinations than do whites. If you mean African Americans, then this was more true 6 months ago than now. Educational outreach has worked in the African American communities, and in many such communities the gap is closing or has been completely closed. The same can’t be said for conservative whites, a relatively high percentage of whom don’t seem to be at all concerned with actual facts.
I continue to be surprised by how people have little understanding for one another. My mom does not have any internet access, no smart phone, and very little skill with technology in general (I was the key to helping her overcome her vaccine reluctance). When my wife’s high school went digital last fall, 15% of her students did not have internet access at home (but assuming most have smart phones), so her district had to loan technology and offer information for discounts and free access for internet access. And don’t get me started on my family’s internet access in rural Mississippi. I get that most people on CC (including myself) have access to information in a heartbeat, but not all have that same access, knowledge base, or experiences. The sneering and disgust at the lack of “knowledge” of those who may fall for misinformation does nothing to bring a single person towards vaccine acceptance. Thank you for sharing the CDC’s website for those who are not as knowledgeable as yourself @Lindagaf .
I don’t sneer in disgust at the people who fall for misinformation. I do sneer in disgust about the sleazy opportunists who spread it. And playing along with them by pretending there are two equally valid sides to this issue? It doesn’t help anyone.
No, not sneering. I trust that you have done all you can to educate your family, and this has been happening with families all over the country. I trust your relatives know people are dying of covid. I assume they have asked questions. If people can find disinformation they can also find facts. Should add, that doesn’t mean they have sought disinformation.
People in very rural places know about covid. Even in places without internet, no one is unaware that vaccines are available. Everyone knows people are dying and they know why. People do not have to remain ignorant of the facts.
I don’t have to play along with understanding the distrust of systems that have been used to oppress black people. My own way out was getting an education and acquiring knowledge, but there are many who will never trust anything being offered (especially when some info is not being shared as readily as it should). What seems obvious to you and I (getting vaccinated) has other factors (like distrust and politics) that cause people to chose to not get vaccinated. I spend a lot of time working on those who deal with the distrust aspect, but I have never seen someone decide to get vaccinated after being told how “dumb they are” for falling for misinformation, which is the prevalent theme on CC at times.
According to table 2 of Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF , the vaccination rates by race / ethnicity over the 43 states that track that are:
| Race / Ethnicity | Vaccination Rate |
|---|---|
| White | 55% |
| Black | 48% |
| Hispanic | 53% |
| Asian | 71% |
As I mentioned, above, educational outreach has been relatively effective in many black communities. The gap in rates has decreased significantly. You mentioned Mississippi. The vaccination rate among Blacks in now higher there than among whites. Same goes for Louisiana and Alabama and a number of other states. Still work to be done, but education works among groups that are amenable to education.
@ucbalumnus referring to non-whites as group, and I believe they have a slightly higher vaccination rate as a whole. I just checked the KFF numbers and the rate is slightly higher, but it would probably more accurate to call it even, because I don’t know what they’ve rounded.
I live in a very liberal east coast town and our local board of health is gathering statistics of our town and two neighboring towns. The Covid dashboard is very helpful and breaks down cases by fully, partially, and non vaccinated status. I should mention that the population of these three towns is over 93% vaccinated.
So far we have 327 Covid cases and 286 of those are in fully vaccinated individuals. From my perspective, I don’t feel any safer around vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Both populations are clearly getting and spreading Covid.
You live in a very very high vaccinated area. This can affect the perception of how effective the vaccine is when you look at it from a “what percentage of the hospitalized patients were vaccinated” perspective.
" It’s a mistake to measure vaccine effectiveness by the percentage of hospitalized patients."
What matters for gauging vaccine effectiveness is not the proportion of hospitalized people who were vaccinated but the proportion of vaccinated people who wind up in the hospital.
The fact that vaccinated people can get Covid and can spread it to others is in my opinion being used over and over in a disingenuous fashion to imply that vaccinated and unvaccinated are equally as likely to get and spread Covid. That is not true.
Here are some numbers from my state:
Unvaccinated Texans died from COVID-19 at 40 times the rate of vaccinated Texans and were 45 times more likely to test positive for the disease in 2021, according to a new study from the Texas Department of State Health Services.
You have to take some other factors in consideration in a state like mine. It’s not just the vaccine which contributes to this huge disparity. Unvaccinated individuals here are not taking precautions to make up for their refusal to vaccinate. People who by now are still refusing to get vaccinated are also more likely to be noncompliant with other mitigation efforts like wearing masks and decreasing their exposure to others in indoor situations. In other words, these people continue to behave as if they do not believe there is such a thing as a dangerous virus circulating in our state. So they take practically zero precautions. Vaccines aside, they would certainly be infected and die in greater numbers than those who do take precautions.
Nevertheless, the vaccines clearly give an advantage in terms of infection rates, how severe the symptoms, and the likelihood of dying.
And of those, who are dying or ending up hospitalized with major health issues? Those are the numbers to look at.
That comes out to be about 53% vaccine effectiveness against infection, although vaccination tends to be more effective against needing hospitalization or dying than infection, and the vaccinated people with breakthrough infections are probably contagious for a shorter period of time.
So it is “safer” to be around vaccinated people than unvaccinated people, but it is not anywhere close to “perfectly safe”.
@MarylandJOE, the statement that “They just want the facts” does not ring wholly true. I read a poll recently in which something like half of the unvaccinated explicitly say that they no information can change their mind. I think this is the study: COVID vaccines: Half of unvaccinated Americans say NOTHING will change their minds - Study Finds. According to this article, “18 percent think COVID vaccinations are more dangerous than the virus itself.”
@ChangeTheGame, you raise a very important point. There are folks (not on CC, obviously) who don’t have access to the digital world and are subject to the influences of the folks around them. Few people have ever been persuaded to change because they are told that they are stupid or ignorant.
As a consultant living in liberal land, I have worked with people all over the world, including in deep red states. I’ve always noticed the deep disconnect on certain issues (like gun control, where my clients firmly believe that the solution to gun violence is to give more people guns). This is not part of my work, but what I try to do is listen and uncover the deeper assumptions that underly positions that seem irrational on their face. I don’t argue with them but I do try to understand.
I do think that the news media fall into the trap of granting legitimacy to arguments on the other side that are completely specious or just plain silly. There is a group of folks who have been anti-mask, anti-mask mandate, pro-hydrochloraquine, pro-ivermectin, anti-vax (at least for others), anti-vax mandate. Many of these were also of the belief that Covid wasn’t real or it wasn’t a big thing. Those folks, with almost not scientific evidence to speak of, are often given equal time in the media as if there is a debate among equally valid arguments. Often the folks started with the one argument (Covid is not real or is not really a big deal) and when that was proved totally false, graduated to others (let’s try hydrochoraquine or ivermectin) to other (masks don’t work) and when those failed as well, yet to others (do vaccines really work? Or, if there are breakthrough infections, do vaccines actually do anything) to yet others (My Body My Choice for vaccines as it is a matter of freedom, though this same argument would likely not apply in their minds to abortion). There is something deeper going on and facts on their own probably will not persuade a lot of the unpersuaded at that point. Given that most of these folks have had polio and other vaccines without even questioning, I wonder if this is really at one level about worldview: Should American society be individualistic (my choice to get a vaccine or not, regardless of the impacts on others, and the government should not tell me what to do) or communitarian (my choice should take into account the impact on others or the government should mandate)?
Placing bets that he gives credit to Ivermectin for his success in beating the “really bad flu” even though most people recover.
I couldn’t find his age to see how many recover in his age group.
From the article:
"He told The Associated Press Monday that he is taking the deworming drug ivermectin and has not checked into a hospital.
He says the virus is “like a really bad flu.”
“California’s case rate is now well above Texas’ and double Florida’s,…”