Another approach:
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Wow. I donāt see an exemption for children. SO, all kids who havenāt been vaccinated in these areas are now under house arrest. Iāll say itā¦it bothers me greatly that this would be seen as a thumbs up situation.
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I think children are exempt. In the article linked below, it says,
Only children and those who have medical reasons for not being vaccinated are exempt from the new rule.
House arrest seems like an extreme characterization. Unvaccinated people will be allowed to go to work and essential activities (like grocery shopping), but not to many public places, such as restaurants, bars, hairdressers, hotels, gatherings of more than 25 people and, perhaps most painfully for many, ski lifts. Not quite the same as house arrest.
I donāt know how I feel about this, but I do think we should think about not getting vaccinated as a more dangerous version of drunk driving. If you drink too much, you should not be in a position where your diminished state can injure or kill others. In this case, your diminished state is your refusal to be vaccinated, which unnecessarily increases the probability that you will infect and kill others. [The reason it is more dangerous has to do with the difference: If you drive drunk and have an accident, the people you injure/kill canāt injure/kill others].
@dietz199, assuming that those exclusions are in place, does Austriaās limiting people from public places like restaurants and hairdressers still seem like house arrest to you?
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Still seems like house arrest to me. Not allowed to take part in public life. In the USA we have the freedom of movement and this is restricting the freedom of movement.
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I did not use term āhouse arrestā. From your articleā¦'The targeted lockdowns would be in addition to measures that came into effect on November 8 barring people who arenāt fully vaccinated from entering many public places, such as restaurants, bars, hairdressers, hotels, gatherings of more than 25 people and, perhaps most painfully for many, ski lifts. "
Given the history of the areaā¦and what I know of the leaning of the political climateā¦Itās not a big stretch to anticipate neighbors calling the authorities because and unvaccinated parent is taking their unvaccinated child out for a bike ride, a trip to the play ground etc.
Sorry folks. I get the hope and idea behind thisā¦but the clearly anticipatable āunanticipatedā consequences make my blood run cold.
And it is concerning to meā¦how many are so quick to jump on the āgrab them they are endangering society so for the sake of society they must be captured and forced to stay in a safe place. Of course for their own protection as much as for othersā.
Nopeā¦this is not good.
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No, they chose not to take part in public life.
Iām interested that this law in Austria makes your blood run cold but not what we see happening here, except in reverse. States that willfully endanger the health of children by forbidding masks in schools, states abandoning any measures designed to protect public health, states suing to stop federal mandates, etcā¦ The first job of government should be to keep its citizens healthy and alive.
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One dumb rule/approach/attitude does not negate the dumbness of another.
Two things can be true at once. A mask mandate is not even remotely equivocal to what Austria is imposting.
And a quick -Widipedia level- look at the history of that general area would explain the ācold bloodā. Especially since it is part of my own family history.
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Iām no particular fan of the Austrian government. I donāt see this as anything akin to what you might be thinking of.
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Absolute freedom doesnāt exist anywhere. Any healthy society needs to place restrictions on individaul freedoms to protect its members and the society as a whole, especially when faced with danger. If there were a threat to the existence of a society or even the entire species (certainly not saying Covid is it), would we all be willing to sacrifice some freedoms in order to preserve our society and our species? Maybe some wouldnāt.
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In NYC, you cannot enter a restaurant without showing proof of vaccination. You canāt attend a Broadway show without proof of vaccinationā¦as well as having to wear a mask for the duration of the show.
Where I live, you canāt attend live indoor arts performances in most places without showing proof of vaccination.
Itās not just Austria.
And the Austrians are allowing folks to do essential activities. There are some workplaces here where vaccines are mandatoryā¦no exceptions.
I call this allowing personal choice to get vaccinatedā¦or not.
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Iām ok with measures trying to keep on top of Covid. What makes me seethe are those who are too selfish to care about others.
I have my booster now and will still willingly put on a mask if most others are or a sign tells me theyād prefer it - and keep it off trusting the vaccines if neither is true.
Granted, part of this is due to my faith telling me to live at peace with others and to give them my cloak and coat or walk a second mile if asked to do one, but the other part is me simply wanting to be nice to others at no real cost to me.
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I keep thinking how selfish todayās Americans would seem to WWII veterans and even civilians of the time. So sad. Iām glad my FIL is not alive to see it. He was an infantryman on Okinawa who got multiple medals. The selfish behavior Iām seeing makes MY blood run cold.
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Iām confused. I was responding to the statement above. But now you are saying you didnāt use the phrase āhouse arrest.ā Not a big deal from my end, but the phrase struck me as a little extreme as a description of what was intended.
I agree with you that in the context of Austria, social restrictions are a bit scarier.
I suspect that what @Lindagaf is responding to is that there has been a sweeping shift of arguments over time from āCovid is a hoaxā to āCovid is no worse than the fluā to āMasks donāt workā to āMask mandates are an abridgment of freedomā or even āMasks mandates are child abuseā to āAre the vaccines really safeā to āGiven that there are breakthrough infections, do the vaccines really do anythingā to āVaccine mandates are evil.ā There is a tradeoff between individual freedom and actions to keep others safe. To me, this flow of arguments reflect an extreme emphasis on my comfort and my freedom relative to the safety of others. It would be great if the people saying āVaccine mandates are evilā would also say, but āAnyone who chooses not to get masks mandates should take steps to reduce the risk to others including masking and social distancing.ā My observation is that this is rare. Otherwise, what people tend to hear is someone making yet another argument in the string of arguments and assuming that subtext is not about the substance of vaccine mandates but about a more general political statement that individual rights are sovereign and infinitely more important than the effects of the individualās choices on others.
Iām not singling out @dietz199. I donāt know what he/she has posted earlier. I have the general sense that if you follow these threads that the prior arguments of many of the folks who are now no vax mandaters often follow the trajectory I described above, although I doubt there are any anti-vaxxers here but just vaccine skeptics. I have friends who are rare in liberal land where I live in that they are very conservative Republicans. The wife is still finding articles about why the boosters arenāt needed or whether Covid is really as bad as people say (with a particular fixation on China with an unstated subtext that the leak of Covid was somehow intentional). There was a questioning at every step of the way when the data were so obviously strong and the likelihood of exponential spread was real. [I have a PhD in an applied math field and so things like exponential growth and probabilities are more natural to me than to most]. It reminded me of the folks who try to find some argument to get people to question the theory of evolution by natural selection (just an analogy; the data supporting the theory of evolution are so widespread and compelling and compiled over many years and in many ways).
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Thatās exactly it. The reasonableness and strength of the argument donāt matter, and the argument isnāt deeply investigated; itās just whatever plausible-sounding (to them) thing they can find to stick to the issue, and itās a case of whatever works, since the answer is already decided. The only good news there is that they have a sense that something that looks like reason is required for backing a claim. Otherwise they wouldnāt bother at all.
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Looking at the OK Natl Guard refusal to abide by the vax mandate ā 80% now vaxxed. And the rate of adult needle phobia is, guess what, right around 20%.
I really think itās time to talk about needles and fears.
Itās a good thing I donāt have a fear of needles or Iād be a basket case. I have terrible little veins. When I was hospitalized once with a kidney infection it took them 7 tries to get an IV needle in sufficiently. Even getting blood drawn for annual tests takes multiple attempts. I donāt have much empathy for people who wonāt get a simple jab.
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pro tip: start drinking lotsa water the day before the draw.
Oh, I do. Lots and lots.
The good thing is that the jab is not something that very likely might have to be repeated multiple times in order to have āsuccess.ā Since we are not trying to go into the vein (in fact, we donāt want to), there is almost no chance that you would be subjected to multiple sticks in order to get your vaccine.
When I got my flu shot and booster recently (separate excursions), the practitioner was so good that I barely even felt it.
One and done! My D2 has such a needle issue that we have to make sure she is lying down or at least that the practitioner is aware so that if she goes, they are ready and she wonāt fall out of the chair to the floor. This is the case with any kind of needle stick-vaccine, blood draw, IV insertion. Hoping she eventually grows out of it.
She get over it real quick if she has a baby. I used to be a fainter, but can even give myself shots now.
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