This!
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This is certainly an interesting comment. It works both ways, @Mom481 . You repeatedly saying vaccines are gene therapy doesnât make it true, and you will have a hard time persuading most people on this thread. Mainly because the vaccines are not gene therapy.
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If everyone had the âwait and seeâ attitude, weâd still be in lockdown.
One of my kids is still against the vaccine. I told her Iâm not sharing my $1M prize with her.
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I donât know anyone who has this attitude. The people I know who are waiting a bit are still wearing masks and socially distancing; they are doing whatever they need to do in order to keep themselves and others safe. None of them feel like others should assume a risk for their benefit.
Also, ftr, I know people of different political affiliations that havenât gotten the vaccine.
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I have not seen @Mom481 try to convince anyone of anything, but sometimes I scan so maybe I missed it. Her statement about gene therapy may be incorrect, but she wasnât trying to convince other people not to get vaccinated because of it.
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If I consistently say something isnât what it is, or is what it isnât, eventually some people might believe me. So yes, I believe the intent of the repeated message that vaccines are gene therapy is to persuade.
Thereâs no need to say âIâm trying to persuade you that vaccines are gene therapy.â Merely stating it as fact, if that is your belief, conveys persuasive intent. Thatâs what rhetoric is.
Just want to add this factual information about vaccines: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html
These lines in particular are relevant to the current discussion:
They (vaccines) do not affect or interact with our DNA in any way.
- mRNA never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA (genetic material) is kept.
- The cell breaks down and gets rid of the mRNA soon after it is finished using the instructions.
One can say covid vaccines are gene therapy as often as one wants, but it will never be true.
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The claimed old definition of âvaccineâ in the above linked page does not include a large number of non-COVID-19 vaccines that have been available for some time now:
Toxoid vaccines: diptheria, tetanus
Other vaccines not using âany preparation of weakened or killed bacteria or virusesâ include shingles (Shingrix), hepatitis B, pertussis, meningitis.
Some COVID-19 vaccines are made with âtraditionalâ inactivated virus, such as the Sinopharm, CoronaVac, Covaxin, Covivac, and QazVac vaccines. However, if you prefer to get such a vaccine, you need to go to some other country to get it. CoronaVac and Covaxin may be available in Mexico.
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You can also think of your body as a country, and your immune system as its military forces defending it against external threats. Military forces regularly do training and practice to prepare against external threats so that they know what to do against each type of external threat. Vaccines are analogous in terms of giving your immune system training and practice against external threats.
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Unvaccinated people are still getting covid at the same rate as it has been going all along, per WaPo.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp_pandemic%20test
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Whether or not mRNA is gene therapy is not an opinion. Its a basic biological fact. It is not physically or chemically possible for that RNA to come into contact with your genes. Both old and new cell biology textbooks will confirm that fact.
Saying that itâs your opinion that an mRNA vaccine is gene therapy sounds to those of us who know thatâs not possible, the same as if you were saying itâs your opinion that there is no such thing as DNA or the earth is flat. I am not suggesting you think those things. I am pointing out that this is a fact which, by definition, is not open to opinion.
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Very interesting read @VaBluebird For those who arenât vaccinated, the opening up of the US is a bit of a risk. Iâm glad it showed the vaccinated are doing well. From the article:
The rosy national figures showing declining case numbers led the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to loosen mask recommendations two weeks ago and President Biden to advise people to take off their masks and smile.
*But adjustments for vaccinations (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/covid-rates-unvaccinated-people/?itid=hp_pandemic%20test#methodology) show the rate among susceptible, unvaccinated people is 73 percent higher than the standard figures being publicized. With that adjustment, the national death rate is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down. The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago. The case rate is still declining after the adjustment.
In the United States, the current case rate for unvaccinated residents is similar to the case rate for all residents on December 31.
Unvaccinated people are getting the wrong message, experts said.
âThey think itâs safe to take off the mask. Itâs not,â said Lynn Goldman, dean of the Milken Institute School of Public Health at George Washington University. âIt looks like fewer numbers, looks like itâs getting better, but itâs not necessarily better for those who arenât vaccinated.â*
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The great thing about the vaccines is that we have choices.
Donât like the mRNA, get the J&J. Donât like the J&J, get the moderna or Pfizer.
Donât like either, thatâs your choice.
But donât expect things to be easy going forward either. Thatâs the price to pay, as soon as these vaccines arenât temporary authorization, then employers can expect you to have them. Already the cruise industry is going to require their passengers to be vaccinated so they can operate. I see this becoming more normal.
Over and over we hear that if there is a problem with the vaccine, it would be apparent in the short term, not the long term. Thatâs what I choose to believe.
My mental health is better, I donât live in fear of catching this disease. I donât live in fear that I will have long lasting effects. The positive outweighs the negative for me.
I bring up again my neighbor who is choosing not to be vaccinated. His wife is now in the nursing home. He couldnât visit her in the hospital, will he be allowed to see her in the nursing home? Not sure but he wouldnât have that problem if he was vaccinated.
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My family is getting ready to bury my maternal Grandmother who died last week from a non-Covid illness. I am worried about some of the activities that will occur in her honor because a large subset (at least 2/5âs of eligible family members based on polling done by one of her children) are not vaccinated and most are not planning to do so.
It is not political (mostly Democrats), but mostly a lack of trust despite boatloads of initial evidence that the vaccines are working. Some of these family members who are vaccine hesitant are among the most vulnerable group to suffer severe symptoms (Elderly African-Americans with several pre-existing conditions). Almost all are still masking and using social distancing methods, but I still fear that Covid will get some of the vulnerable.
I also fear the intolerance and lack of understanding from those who jumped at the opportunity to get vaccinated and can not fathom how anyone would not get vaccinated as soon as possible. My goal is to share as much factual information about the vaccines to my hesitant family members, while also respecting their option to make a different choice (wait or not get vaccinated) from my own fully vaccinated household.
We should all push back on inaccurate information on the science behind Covid-19 and the approved vaccines, but we should also spend time trying to understand some of those who are not enthusiastic about getting vaccinated. I believe that some of my family members can be convinced to get vaccinated, but being completely intolerant of their position is the quickest way to make some of them ânever vaxxersâ.
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This is an excellent point.
I mentioned my anti-vax brother earlier, who claims there is monkey DNA in the vaccines. My sister was present during the âmonkey DNAâ discussion. Sis was definitely hesitant for a while, and when I saw her in for several weeks in March, she and her fiancĂ©e were both still on the fence.
We were in the house together, wearing masks, as we helped out my father before he passed. One night, Sis was unable to drive home for the evening. I left the house and stayed at a hotel. I wasnât prepared to spend the night with an unvaccinated sibling, no matter how much I love her.
I think what finally convinced her was the firm evidence that obese people are much more likely to suffer seriously from Covid. My sister isnât obese, but her daughter and SIL are. I think she couldnât handle putting her daughter at risk. Her daughter and SIL have since been vaccinated, and my sister and her fiancĂ©e then followed suit.
It might be worth mentioning that my sister and her fiancĂ©e are both conservative and deeply religious. In fact, her fiancĂ©e is a pastor. I think they were tired of covid life and tired of worrying. Iâd like to think I helped a bit, simply by making it clear that I know Covid is a serious threat and not just the flu.
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Flu can be very unpleasant and sometimes deadly also (though COVID-19 is worse for most, particularly in the risk of after effects). However, people seem to discount the flu because it is common to call all kinds of minor feverish illnesses âfluâ.
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Also interesting that the CDC doesnât list COVID as a vaccine preventable disease on the general list. Could it be because it is still in experimental Phase 3.
I am happy to hear you are having a different experience than I!
(I will say one unvaxxed friend came by yesterday to pick something up and she did wear a mask in our house. But she wonât get the vaccine to help protect her 88 yo mother (who she helps physically care for), but said she will get it if she has to in order to travel 
)
This post reminds me of Leonard Nimoyâs In Search Of⊠series. I watched an interview about it once where he laughed at the suggestion that what they were searching for actually existed. He was very clear that they were careful in their language. They were always purposely vague. âCould it beâŠ,â âIs it possibleâŠ,â etc. are exactly the noncommittal phrases they used to try to lead people to conclusions that had zero evidence to support them.
Why is it interesting that the CDC doesnât list Covid as a vaccine preventable disease? If itâs not on the list itâs because there isnât enough evidence to put it there. But a vaccine doesnât have to be 100% effective at preventing a disease to be beneficial. Vaccines that keep people from dying and prevent long-term side effects are effective vaccines.
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Itâs interesting because people are pushing the vaccine as though itâs completely authorized when in fact itâs only at the EUA status and still in Phase 3 of the trial. That many(from private individuals to private industry to public institutions) are acting as though this experimental vaccine should be forced on everybody when coercing people to participate in such a trial is actually against both federal and international law(Nuremberg). My comments are meant to give people pause in their attitudes toward those who are refusing the vaccine either due to uncertainties of itâs safety, natural immunity or on principle - all being valid reasons to refuse.
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