<p>Hi! This is primarily directed towards current Vagelos MLS students at Penn (although I'd certainly be grateful for anyone's input!).</p>
<p>A tentative schedule (after playing with the nifty mock schedules for way too much time):</p>
<p>ANTH-086 Desire and Demand (Seminar) - Marilynne Diggs-Thompson
CHEM-053 Gen Chem Lab 1 (Lecture, Laboratory) - Jenine Maeyer
CHEM-115 Honors Chemistry 1 (Lecture, Recitation) - Donald H. Berry
MATH-114 Calculus II (Lecture, Recitation) - Robert T Powers
PHYS-150 Principles of Physics I: Mechanics and Wave Motion (Lecture, Lab) - Masao Sako
CHEM-022 Vagelos Scholars Seminar (Seminar)</p>
<p>Questions:
1. Is this a typical 1st semester freshman year schedule for Vagelos students?
2. What exactly are the differences between Chem 115/Chem 101 and Phys 170/Phys 150? What high school background would you recommend for taking the honors classes?
3. I know that Vagelos students don't have to take the lab. However, if I'm even remotely considering becoming pre-med, I still should... right?
4. How can I find the "Vagelos Scholars Seminar"? It doesn't seem to come up in the course search on PennInTouch.
5. Are any of the professors I have on my schedule ones to particularly avoid?
6. Any tips to balance social/academic life?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t take Chem 053 if you don’t have to, it’s not a very good course. You can get a lab waiver later if you need it. Dr. Diggs is awesome, she’s the house dean for Riepe so that should be a great course.</p>
<p>The difference between the honors courses is that they go significantly more in depth (especially physics) than do the regular classes and are intended for people who have a deep interest in the subject and may plan to major in it.
Chem 115 goes into quantum a lot I’ve heard, it sounded interesting but last year there were complaints about the professor (there’s a different professor this year).</p>
<p>Physics 170-171 are incredible courses, but you shouldn’t take them unless you are truly devoted to physics. It would help to have taken Physics C in high school but it isn’t absolutely necessary, what’s more important is your math background and your ability to think analytically. The course is taught in a much different way than physics 150. While 150 emphasizes applying the concepts to do many problems, physics 170 emphasizes the theory and requires you to think in a completely different way. Rote memorization is completely deemphasized and even discouraged, what’s important is having a strong grasp of the fundamental concepts and symmetries.
There are weekly problem sets of usually 6-10 problems. These are not exercises that you can just plow through, it’s better to not write anything down and just think about the problems for a few days.
Overall, the class is very demanding but if you put in the time you will get a ton out of it. </p>
<p>As for the average Vagelos schedule, I have a lot of friends in the program and a few of them took a similar schedule to what you just posted. The most intensive route would be to take honors math and physics and organic chemistry (I actually have two close friends who did this!)</p>
<p>Also on a final note, I have not heard good things about Powers, however this is usually the case with many math 114 professors so it should be fine.</p>
<p>I looked it up, and lab waivers apparently “satisfy virtually all requirements, i.e. Chem / Biochem Majors, SEAS lab requirement, Medical School applications, etc.” That’s settled then - I’m definitely not taking Chem 053. :)</p>
<p>I really hope that I can get a spot in Dr. Diggs’ course. Generally, how competitive is it to get into freshman seminars?</p>
<p>Thanks for the information about honors v. regular courses. I’ll probably stick with what I have right now. I don’t think I’m quite cut out for Phys 170. :P</p>
<p>
Ay. I have nothing but the deepest respect and admiration for those two friends. I know I would never do that to myself!</p>
<p>SpicySushi - Nah, I’m planning on submatriculating, not double majoring. Vagelos actually requires me to take both the Vagelos seminar and General Chem first semester. Here’s the curriculum: [Vagelos</a> Program Curriculum](<a href=“Biochemistry | Penn Arts & Sciences”>Biochemistry | Penn Arts & Sciences)</p>
<p>i dont know much about chem/physics but i do know that diggs’ seminar is supposed to be a great class. however, its one of the most popular freshman seminars (given the name/description, you shouldnt be surprised) so you probably wont get into it :/</p>
<p>To maximize your chances of getting the seminar, put it as your first choice. The science courses don’t need to be high on your list because they most likely won’t fill and if they do your Vagelos advisor can probably get you in. The program director apparently has quite a bit of influence in the science departments. I hear quite a few interesting stories about the Vagelos seminar…</p>
<p>Sako is pretty good for phys 150. I’d recommend taking the 170/1 series or at least trying it. Its an amazing experience from what I hear.</p>
<p>Personally, I’d try to get out of math 114 and just start off with 240 if you can…its a pretty terrible class. In fact, the entire calc line at Penn aka 104-241 is horrendously designed. 240, unfortunately, is basically required for pchem, which means you don’t have much flexibility with that unless you already have a pretty strong ode foundation.</p>
<p>Frankly, honors chem is pretty optional. On the upshot, you get introduced to alot of topics that’ll be covered later in the pchem series and depending the prof, it should be a pretty good experience. However, you’re gonna learn everything in pchem in greater detail and at a time when you’ll actually be able to understand the stuff. There is nothing that prevents you from taking orgo as a freshmen. No gen chem knowledge is required at all. The only “bad” thing is that well, its orgo, and the series is a pain in the ass.</p>
<p>in regards to chem 022…i personally really enjoyed the class? you’ll quickly get to know…Ponzy and his quirky personality. Also, he is probably the most politically incorrect professor that I know at Penn.</p>
<p>I also had this same question: Also, for anyone on the forum, how reputed do you think Penn Vagelos is compared to HYPSM in applying to medical and grad school?</p>
<p>In terms of grad school, Penn is very successful in the sciences in general. I hear a common choice for physics is Harvard. Vagelos students also tend to do well I hear. However it seems unclear to whether the program has any affect in this. Out of the roughly 40 students who started for the class of 2012 which was a large class, there are only around 12 left (I was just talking about this with a rising senior Vagelos recently). So to continue in the program you really need to be dedicated to biochemistry (although in some case I think people can work around this). So basically their success may be more a reflection of their hard work than the name of the program. For this reason people outside the program can have the same success if they excel and find research opportunities. I’m not in the program but I think a big benefit of it is that you are guaranteed funding for the summers before junior and senior (a very significant amount!) and the advising is probably also very helpful.
Submatriculation is not always as useful as it sounds. It may be better in biochem since there are more requirements, but I know for some subjects it is not thought of as a real masters. Submatriculation also may not really be beneficial if you are looking to get a phD since you have to get a masters your first year anyway. The consensus seems to be just to take courses you are interested in.</p>
<p>Hey all, I graduated MLS in the spring and will be going to grad school in Cambridge, Massachusetts next year (I’ll leave you with a 50/50 guess as to which one it is )</p>
<p>So I’ll comment on both med school and grad school apps:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I think that the prestige of your undergrad institution is less significant for med school apps than perhaps law or business school. Med schools want to see a strong, well-rounded application (very good grades, leadership in extracurriculars, volunteering at a hospital, etc.). Vagelos puts a huge emphasis on research and taking advanced science coursework, and is definitely geared more towards producing future researchers than M.D.'s. If you aren’t interested in research, and your goal is simply to become a practicing doctor, Vagelos probably isn’t a great fit for you. As the director of the program says frequently, “there are many easier roads to med school than Vagelos.”</p></li>
<li><p>In terms of preparation for grad school, I think Vagelos is top notch. Whereas med school applications are influenced by many factors (GPA, MCAT score, recs, essays, interviews, etc.) grad school applications boil down to one huge factor (rec letter from a professor you have done research with) and other lesser factors (GPA, GRE’s, essays). Vagelos gets you involved in a lab early and encourages you to develop a relationship with the graduate students, postdocs, and professor in your lab. You are required to do 2 summers of research, plus during your senior year you are required to do two semesters of research for credit. Most people also work in their lab during sophomore and junior year. This means that when you graduate you will have worked in a lab for two summers and as many as three school years. Vagelos has an outstanding placement rate into top grad schools, and 29 of the 49 graduates that went on to PhD programs went to either Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, or Caltech (including 13 of the 49 at Harvard). It is pretty amazing what the alumni go on to do.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>If you have any other questions about Vagelos, feel free to PM me.</p>
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