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I’m not looking for tragedy on the absolute scale. You wouldn’t be posting if there was one.</p>
<p>Just donating any energy to a goal as cursory and uselessly high-flown as valedictorian status means, however, that a relative tragedy has occurred.</p>
<p>^^Since when is getting top grades “cursory and uselessly high-flown?” We have fallen pretty low if striving for excellence is now considered to be relatively tragic. The ancient Greeks had a term for striving to be the best you could be - they called it “arete.” It was regarded as one of the highest virtues. Apparently that dream is now over.</p>
<p>Is striving to be an academic champion somehow less worthy than striving to be an athletic champion? Are athletes who are donating enormous amounts of energy to winning an Olympic gold medal also victims of your scorn or do you reserve that for pursuits of the mind?</p>
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<p>Exactly. I agree with you.</p>
<p>^^Without agreeing or disagreeing with it, I imagine that the idea that some were trying to propose was that well-roundedness > high excellence in only one field, mediocrity in the rest, and that if someone spend all their time trying to focus on their grades alone (which someone who has decided that they will be valedictorian might have to do), they’re not developing in other ways. Not that good grades independent of everything else is a negative.</p>
<p>I think the concern that many have over class rank could be expressed as follows:</p>
<p>Good grades, high achievement are important. However, miniscule differences in GPA do not represent meaningful differences in academic achievement. For a school to elevate someone as “best”, then, is misleading. Indeed, it can be counterproductive, since some will devote excessive and overzealous effort to gaining that distinction, and the accompanying public accolade–effort that would be far more socially and personally productive if directed elsewhere.</p>
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<p>Maybe so, IF that were the case. But in with my daughter and her friend who were co-vals that was definitely not the case. My daughter for example was a very good musician in high school - president of the marching band and a 4-year first chair, played in the wind ensemble, played a different instrument in the jazz band, and was first chair in the local (non-school) youth symphony. She actually performed in Carnegie Hall in NYC as well as the Sydney Opera House in Australia. And even though she is majoring in science, she has kept up with her music and is now in the top symphony at her college. And music is just one of her EC interests; she is also hugely into outdoor stuff: hiking, backpacking, and camping. She was hardly a one-dimensional academic grind doggedly pursuing the title of valedictorian to the neglect of all else. </p>
<p>Jeez, people. Some of you are getting carried away here. The girls thought it would be cool to give the valedictory speech together when they were seniors and decided to shoot for it. And I thought it was cool that they pulled it off - especially since it required overcoming 3 1/2 years of obstacles and chances to slip up. It didn’t dominate their lives, and nothing worse than a brief disappointment would have ensued had one or both of them had fallen short.</p>
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<p>Yeah, and exactly the same thing could be said about any endeavor where one winner or champion is recognized. Consider a slight modification for the 100m dash:</p>
<p>“However, miniscule differences in race times do not represent meaningful differences in athletic achievement. For a school to elevate someone as “best”, then, is misleading. Indeed, it can be counterproductive, since some will devote excessive and overzealous effort to gaining that distinction, and the accompanying public accolade–effort that would be far more socially and personally productive if directed elsewhere.”</p>
<p>So don’t go out for the track team? Or don’t try very hard to win the big race if you do? Such a thing would seem kinda silly wouldn’t it? </p>
<p>We admire the athlete who shoots for the gold medal but sneer at the scholar who shoots for the top academic prize. Why is that? Why is one acceptable an the other not?</p>
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First of all, don’t get me wrong. I am all for vals and sals and whatever honor a school wants to designate. If the school defines it well, it is a target some students can choose to shoot for, and great for them. So congratulations coureur, I think your kid did great to set and achieve that goal, and to maintain her close friendship through the whole thing. My post is more just part of my nit-picky way to analyze things.</p>
<p>“Val” does not always necessarily designate the “best” student. And I don’t think any school would always claim it goes to the best student, even if it goes to the best GPA, W or UW or however they choose to define it. This is because final high school class grades are not issued in a continuum but more in a “quantum” manner.</p>
<p>Assume two students take exactly the same classes. Assume all classes give anyone over 90% an A. A student with all 91% level As through their high school career is not necessarily a better student than someone who earned 100% in every class but one, where they earned 89%. </p>
<p>But you have to give the award based on the GPA results, and that is exactly fair. If you want the best GPA, if that is your goal, you may need to strategize in allocating your time. Much like a national election, which is done by winning states. The strategy would be completely different if the goal was to win the over-all popular vote.</p>
<p>So the “val” may or may not be the best student, but they are the best at achieving the standards necessary to be chosen val. At least they should be, I don’t want to get into that argument on this thread. I’m already off-topic.</p>
<p>^^Yes but the “prize” for the highest GPA does not necessarily mean that the universal “award” is the right to speak at commencement. That is a tradition and it is a tradition that is apparently changing in some locations. It does not mean necessarily that the honor is diminished…it is what it is and the highest GPA student can always claim that honor if bestowed. How each community celebrates the concept of highest GPA (or doesn’t even annoint that particular award) can be different. If having the highest GPA is a student’s goal that’s great. It’s a goal and I’m all for goals. Others may have a goal of being NM Scholars, or get a nominated to a service academy, or be accepted to the flagship honors colleges or any of a variety of academic achievement awards.</p>
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That’s fine. I don’t really care one way or the other about who gives the speech, and didn’t give an opinion on it. I don’t think you’ll find anything about the “speech” in my post. So I’m not sure if your arrows signify a response to my post, which I already admitted was off topic.</p>
<p>I think I was agreeing LOL…not enough coffee yet to be totally articulate and distracted by a neat story about Magic Johnson and Larry Bird on Sunday Morning. Yikes.</p>
<p>^^^My fault for a poorly attempted thread hijacking.</p>
<p>coureur… i for one applaud your D and her friend, for setting that goal and acheiving it! well done!! also sounds as if she had a wonderful hs experience with all her other interests.<br>
my son set a goal to acheive concentrations with distinctions in 2 subjects and he acheived that goal, which i fully supported… it meant he had to plan ahead and work hard to be sure to get the required courses above grad requirements and excel at them. very proud that he did it!</p>
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<p>Well, thank you for your nice words. </p>
<p>I agree that “Being Val just isn’t what it used to be” or at least what I think it used to be. Looking back at the ealier posts, I now understand that people who live in a different country might look down at the “silly” traditions that make the US the quirky country it is. </p>
<p>Perhaps it is wrong and naive to think that the continuing chipping away at rewarding excellence leaves us all diminished.</p>
<p>Proud Mom
Our school does the same thing. They do not recognize the val/sal as they say it will increase competitiveness. The kids with weighted GPA over 4.0 vote for class speaker.</p>
<p>My son was valedictorian, highest GPA, per principal and guidance. Could not be used on apps. Spuerindendant of the school district told me that colleges don’t care if they are valedictorian or not. So now he’s a college admissions rep??? I have a lot to say on that subject!</p>
<p>Here’s what else they do…
40 kids had a weighted GPA of over 4.0, out of 399 kids. That means the top 4 should be ranked 1 percentile. 5-40 are in the top 10 percentile and so on. Not in our district. All 40 have top 1 percentile (for application purposes). THEN the next group 41 and on jump down and do not become top 10 percentile. They just wipe that group out. Those kids are then top 15 or 20th percentile and so on (However it would really work out if doing the math. </p>
<p>The district is happy to report anything to do with athletics, but honor the top students, no way!!</p>
<p>Our HS has no “public” rankings, though an internal list is kept in the Guidance Office. Therfore, no recogntion for Val, Sal or anything else for that matter. There are no “cords” at graduation for NHS, top 5 or 10 % or anything. Everyone is EXACTLY the same in their blue cap and gown at the graduation ceremony, whether you are #1 or #400. There is a small ceremony at the end of the school year for top 5 % of the class, but it is only for those students and their parents to attend.</p>
<p>Graduation speeches are done by the Senior Class President and two students that must “audition” before a committee which includes Principal, faculty and other administrators AND the teacher who teaches Public Speaking-YAY! Any senior can audition.</p>
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<p>LOL! HOW many threads are there on CC about how “my immigrant parents are convinced that the only possible schools in the US are HYPSM and if I suggest anything else, they think I’m doomed to a life of flipping burgers”? Meanwhile, most Americans make their college choices based on cost and distance, not on getting into the highest-ranked school.</p>
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Are you daft? I said pursuit specifically of valedictorian status, not of academic achievement, was cursory and high-flown. Because it undoubtedly is, the competition to have that fraction of a GPA point that puts you above everyone else.</p>
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I hope you’re being facetious, because the fallaciousness of this comparison is laughable. The rate of return of such athletic pursuits (to say nothing of context, that these pursuits are part of an athlete’s profession) places them in the realm of worthwhileness. I’ll take “pursuits of the mind” over those of the body anyday, but no one will care after high school that you were valedictorian. Everyone will care that you were the stellar student who has carried your academic habits and acumen to the present, which valedictorian status need not be achieved to reflect.</p>
<p>QMP’s school recognizes all students with an unweighted 4.0 as “valedictorians.” However, they do not normally speak at graduation. (There have been 5 to 10 such students each year for a while, in classes of about 400.) Speakers are selected by auditions, open to any graduating senior who would like to give a speech. Usually there are 3 students who give short speeches. I think this makes graduation better for everyone. Just sayin’.</p>
<p>Agree with QuantMech above. I went to a graduation just this past week: 7 vals and 2 sals. All 9 of them spoke; only three were of any quality or interest. It was long. I have been to other graduations where the speakers auditioned and the results were predictably better (and shorter). </p>
<p>The vals and sals are acknowledged in the program and, at our high school, in the local paper. I guess the vals and sals could get further acknowledgment by having their names read and standing for a hand clap, or by having them receive their diplomas first with their val/sal status verbally acknowledged. Traditions can be changed, and often for the better.</p>