<p>A friend gave me these numbers and the permission to use only the general numbers. The numbers given are round up amount of grant money excluding loan or work study. </p>
<p>Harvard 46K
Yale 44K
Stanford 40K
MIT 30K
Princeton 28K*</p>
<p>P gave low FA because they tap heavily into student's outside scholarship. I don't have numbers from other schools. However, I could safety assume that the student would only get less than $30K need based FA (could have merit full ride) from any other t20 school. </p>
<p>Basically, as I have been saying all alone. Students from middle income families with high stats could go to these schools for much less than a state school cost. Even if the student gets a full tuition merit scholarship. </p>
<p>With this type of need based aid, most of the middle income families should be able to send their kids to colleges and maintain a fairly normal life style. </p>
<p>Disclaimer - this is intended for information share only. This is not to promote any of the school listed nor to discredit any other fine institutions, tier1 or not tier at all. What college you chose to attend is your own decision. This is not to judge anyone on any bases.</p>
<p>With a family income around $100K, my two daughters attend Harvard for about the same as they would pay for room, board and fees at our in-state publics after getting full tuition grants. In addition, Harvard treats assets in the student’s name the same as it does parents’ assets. Yale will claim four or five times as much of a student’s assets per year as does Harvard.</p>
<p>Yes, those schools are very generous with FA; but that’s not a lot of help to most middle-income families because getting into those schools is a crapshoot, even for the most talented of students. So that’s why it’s sort of “yeah, that’s great, but since there is no guarantee of my kid getting into those high-rollers, it’s still not a lot of help.”</p>
<p>That’s like saying if you win the lottery, you’ll … win the lottery.
It doesn’t function as a real plan for families of smart students.</p>
<p>Remember the “ivy caliber” discussion? Based on what I have gathered, there are a particular group of kids who have a much high chance at these schools. As a matter of the fact, within certain group of population, getting into one of the HYPSM is almost certain. The target now is like this family/student, get into all of HYPSM.</p>
<p>The difference in aid from MIT versus Harvard is interesting. It may explain why my daughter’s friend is still debating between MIT and our flagship U. </p>
<p>For new families reading this thread, can you clarify the definition of “high stats” and “ivy caliber”? I know families who were shocked that their students with over 2200 SATs and 4.0’s in a rigorous program did not get into any ivies. What kind of stats does it take to get accepted to HYPSM?</p>
<p>My question exactly, 2girls4me! A student who was accepted at all of these schools clearly has high stats and exceptional other qualities as a student and as a person, who also happens to be the kind of student/person the school needs to complete the class. We’ve seen students rejected again and again at HYPXYZ-type schools with stratospheric GPAs and 99th-percentile SATs.
The target for whom? Not every student who would love Harvard will love MIT - these schools are not essentially interchangeable. Are you saying that one needs these acceptances in order to compare the best finaid offers?
<p>I don’t understand what the numbers mean. Is this grant money given to everybody regardless of income? Or is this need based aid whcih depends on your income? Are there income cut-off limits for this aid? If so what are they?</p>
<p>gadad’s post gives a little more contect into what type of income level qualifies for aid.</p>
<p>
Oh geez, now you’ve done it.</p>
<p>Something tells me we’ll soon read something about AP National Scholar at Junior Year.</p>
<p>PG, someday when I’m bored I’m going to collect all your little “pearls of wisdom” and post them in the Parent Cafe.</p>
<p>2girls4me - The lottery schools have often claimed they could fill 2 (or more) entire classes each and every year from the stats qualified applicants. The short answer to your question is that it isn’t just all about stats with the lottery schools. You have to bring something else to the table that they need that year.</p>
<p>Outside scholarships at Princeton replace student summer contribution, work study and remaining amount can go towards one-time purchase of a Dell laptop purchased through the university. Also if joining an eating club junior and senior year financial aid increases to cover the “average” cost of joining a club. If your club exceeds the “average” cost, and some do, the remaining amount covers that additional cost instead of the student making up the additional cost.</p>
<p>So the institutional award lessens once the Outside scholarship has been applied to all other costs. If student also needs an increase for travel, books and supplies due to major that allotment also increases and the outside scholarship is again applied before institutional funds are reduced. Also summer expected contribution increases with each year, as does work study, so again the outside scholarship is applied first to the additional expenses.</p>
<p>Also there is a waiver in place to reduce the student summer contribution by half if the student is unable to find employment, or underemployed or taking classes or internships or research or anything else they deem is of merit. So that is reduced by half of what is specified in the award and THEN outside scholarship is applied.</p>
<p>So there is some elasticity for FA once matriculated.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>All institutional aid at princeton is need based. Outside scholarships can be need or merit-based. This would be in addition to Pell Grants, SEOGs, Smart Grants and other federal and/or state aid.
And yes son was an AP National Scholar Junior year.</p>
<p>I do think for families on the upper end of middle class, state schools may often be cheaper. I read somewhere on here that the upper middle class kid is becoming an endangered species on private college campuses especially ivies where no merit aid is provided. I think that is true because those families end up with an EFC of 40K-55K/year or more, every year on an income of 140K or so. </p>
<p>As a parent, I really wish we could get an accurate prediction of EFC before the college application process. All of the calculators that we used including the FASFA showed that we would get about 20K in aid. The CSS profile does not tell you what your EFC is after completion which I don’t understand. This seems like a KEY piece of information that parents should have prior to the college application process! Or at least provide a range as colleges do the calculation differently.</p>
<p>My d applied to 6 schools and was accepted at 5, two of which were ivies. The best FA package we received had 2 subsidized loans and work study! We got zero grant aid at all schools! And when one does the math of subracting the the FAFSA EFC from the COA, we would be in the 20K ball park. So there must be something on the CSS (home equity?) that is considered that the FAFSA does not. (and our state flagship is fairly expensive so 20K of aid would have made it and a private about the same EFC for us).</p>
<p>And what was really odd to me was that at some schools (ivies in particular) she only received unsubsidized loans! I would think qualification for a subsidized loan vs and unsubsidized loan would be similar. Same for work study–some schools offered it, some did not. </p>
<p>Maybe by the time my son goes to school in 2 years we will have a better idea of EFC. I know I cannot afford full cost of attendance for 2 kids, but am worried that the schools may think I can!</p>
<p>any one who only uses standard test scores and/or gpa to judge a student is missing the point by about 20000 light years. </p>
<p>To #8, I do not know the family income. This data shows the difference in aid from different schools for one family. It tells that for any given middle income family, H will probably give the highest FA. It also tells that it might cost very little for a middle income family to send their kid to a school like this, if they could get in.</p>
<p>To #12. I could be wrong. But those highly endowed Ivy do not use loans in FA package.</p>
<p>What is your definition of middle-income family?</p>
<p>If by middle-income you mean earning $40-75,000/year, then yes, you might be correct.</p>
<p>But once the income exceeds $100,000, then it depends on other factors. For example – assets. I know families with incomes in the $100-$150,000 range who qualify for no financial aid because of higher-than-average assets. </p>
<p>There are so many variables in financial aid that making a generalization like this is a disservice to many students. Every year we see kids who say they are “middle-income” and didn’t get enough money to go to their reach private school, and their state school was affordable.</p>
<p>jym 626, finally I think we have two things in common. One is the frequecy of typing “teh” for “the”. I was told that is because one hand is faster than the other. </p>
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<p>I have also a very strong negative opinion on those who manipulate their financial situation to game the need based aid system. In Chinese we call them “do hand and foot”. Need based aid should be for people who have “needs”.</p>
<p>We consider ourselves middle-middle class with an income in the vicinity of what TKsmom used as an example. We were priced out of the expensive privates; my son’s stats were good enough to gain him admittance but not to get merit aid - at least at the higher tiered ones he would like to attend.</p>
<p>The state school was a bargain in comparison for us -half the COA, and the program at the flagship school is on a par with many of the private schools.</p>
<p>I find the OP’s assertion disingenuous:</p>
<p>“With this type of need based aid, most of the middle income families should be able to send their kids to colleges and maintain a fairly normal life style.”</p>
<p>I find it improbable that most middle income families can realistically expect to send their child to a HYP type school. But I suspect this statement was made for entertainment purposes, to see the reaction it would get.</p>
<p>I would be most surprised if we had much in common, Dad II, other than understanding the value of a dollar and of a good education. As for typing skills, I type very quickly, but inaccurately. But then I try to go back and proof it. Looks like you jumped on my post and quoted it before I even had the chance to make the typo corrections that I did.</p>
<p>Dad II: Can you provide details for what is considered “middle income families”? DD didn’t receive anything from MSP and we are middle income family only.</p>