<p>Yes, if your child is able to get into the Ivys or MIT and other top 20s than they should apply. My first three kids education would have cost us 150 thousand a year not to mention the expenses of being away and traveling home. Our daughters first year private cost us 42,000, almost full cost, and now at her state University we are paying full cost. Parents who are in the middle income range fair far better financially at the top schools than they do at the publics. They don’t need to worry if the scholarship comes with strings attached either such as maintaining a certain GPA (some are set too high) to maintain the scholarship.</p>
<p>Folks…if your FAFSA EFC is $65,000 per year…you are not middle income or middle class. This would indicate income in the $200,000 a year range and/or very significant assets. Sorry, but in my opinion, with that amount of income and/or assets, schools should NOT be awarding you need based financial aid (which is all that HYPSM give).</p>
<p>I can’t believe that someone with three kids in college and is “middle income” would not get some aid at either a public or private for the third kid, despite the "level"of the institution.</p>
<p>In our case, we got no money at all for S from any of the top schools to which he applied. We found that the top schools were also very stingy with merit money for kids who don’t qualify for need based aid. The pleasant surprise with the second child, who also did not qualify for financial need based aid, (and did not apply to top 10 schools) was that there are some great choices for schools that give merit money. In our case, the cost for a private school was much cheaper than the publics to which she applied. (Thank you cc for opening our eyes…;))</p>
<p>I guess we are still not middle income.
Who knew??? :D</p>
<p>Interesting thread! Glad to see other parents drive ancient cars, too! </p>
<p>With an admit rate of what, 8% or so on these schools, a very small % here on CC will get admitted to these schools. Just an observation! 
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<p>But you can be middle income and have signficant assets. Class refers to how you live your life in comaprison to your neighbors, so you also live a thriftful life and be middle class and have significant assets.</p>
<p>I agree that a family with significant assets shouldn’t qualify for need based financial aid.</p>
<p>^^ Well said, bigtrees. Exactly correct. This topic has been discussed many, many times on cc, and usually the book “the Millionaire next door” gets mentioned right about now. Great book, btw <a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1563523302[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1563523302</a></p>
<p>I was listening to a radio show this morning discussing how incredibly hard it is for many to get loans these days (it was a show on housing and mortgage) . Maybe now those who lived on extended credit by choice, to fund a lifestyle they really couldnt afford (not speaking of those who did so out of necessity) will begin to learn-- to adjust their lifestyles to put money into savings, to pay their bills in full and on time, etc. When it comes time for the next generation to pay for their kids education, maybe they’ll have a better nestegg saved up. Just a thought…</p>
<p>Post #62 and #65. It is sad to see that colleges like HMSPY penalize first generation parent for their hard work. It is not easy to keep jobs @175 -200K a year. It takes a lot of consistent hard and skilled effort.</p>
<p>There is disconnect/contradiction among retirement calculator, financial calculator, and financial aid calculator.</p>
<p>It is financially recommended to have a year of income as liquid asset but is a no-no under FA calculator.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what HMSPY are trying to promote. It seems they are trying to tell kids that it is foolish to have any saving because if you do then your children won’t get FA.</p>
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<p>In this economy, it’s not easy to keep any job. Life takes a lot of consistent hard and skilled effort.</p>
<p>I think it’s wonderful that a first-gen person such as yourself makes $175K-$200K a year – and more power to you. But you’re not “middle class,” so please don’t represent yourself as such. Not with a full-pay at Harker and now a full-pay at MIT, with an allowance far more generous than most of your counterparts on CC.</p>
<p>POIH-
I see it in the reverse. I don’t think that parents who have high incomes and/or assets as being “penalized”. They have the means to pay for something and it is reasonable to expect them to pay. I think, rather, that the people who are being reckless with their money (even if they have a high income) - spend foolishly, dont save for the future or that rainy day are being rewarded for irresponsible spending habits with nice FA packages. Perhaps that is why many feel so strongly that students in HS or during summers between college should have a paying job. So they understand the importance of savings and the value of a dollar.</p>
<p>PG #68 that is not a crime to be punished by HMSPY FA.
A lot of people in the same boat with different life styles or different attitude toward life are being rewarded with FA from HMSPY.</p>
<p>^^^ Uhh… I think I just said that, POIH. Don’t feel thatyou are being “punished” for being careful with your money. Think of the others as being rewarded for reckless spending. Thats what fries my cookies.</p>
<p>Families who have lived within their means, saved carefully but then fall upon hard times I have greater sympathy for than people who consistently expect others to fund their lifestyle–which includes paying for their kids education and allowing them to put that prestigous school car decal on their car. Too bad there isnt a large * on the decal that says their kids education is being funded in part by those who saved up carefully!</p>
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<p>HYPSM isn’t “punishing” either me or you by not giving our kids FA. (Well, my kids aren’t headed towards HYPSM. But you get what I mean.)
I’m more than delighted to be both fortunate enough and hard-working enough that we can put our kids through full-pay. To whom much has been given, much is expected.</p>
<p>I have very little patience for people who look around and cluck at other people’s finances. First, you don’t know what situations other people have (medical bills you’re unaware of, debt from their own education, relatives to support) that might impact their EFC. Second, it’s pretty tacky to even think about someone else’s finances. I wonder how you even <em>know</em> what FA someone else has that you think is “unfair”? Isn’t that private business in the first place? </p>
<p>When you are as fortunate as you and I are, it looks petty and small to be worried about other people’s finances or feel that you’re being “punished.” Worry about yourself.</p>
<p>^ All this conversation is focused on the parents.</p>
<p>A PARENT who saves (regardless of income) has the opportunity to pay for an expensive college education at a school their kid is admitted to, so the schools don’t provide financial aid for kids whose PARENTS can pay expensive tuition.</p>
<p>Who gets punished is the STUDENT. A STUDENT who wants to go to an expensive college but whose parents DON’T BELIEVE in expensive education (and have significant assets) have no opportunity to go to an expensive college.</p>
<p>Right or wrong, the students are the ones who are punished because of their families savings habits. Not the parents (because they could afford it if they wanted to).</p>
<p>^^^jym626
I hope you are not referring to me. My three kids are not getting a free ride to MIT or Cornell and my daughter is almost full pay at her state school. My husband and I are driving ten year plus cars and we live very frugal lives so that our kids could get an education. I resent the car sticker remark. COULD YOU AFFORD TO PAY almost $200,000 thousand a year for 4 years. I don’t know many people who can. Your post sounds like sour grapes if you were directing that to me. By the way not that it is anyones business but when my husband lost his job we worked our tails off to start a business and take care of our family which included sending four kids to MIT and Cornell and a daughter to a private university for a year. Do you think we should have refused any aid and sent our kids to state schools? I am not sure where you are coming from.</p>
<p>momma-three,
I know nothing about you, your family or your circumstances, so sorry if you felt my comment was directed at you. Quite to the contrary- it was directed at no one (just a general vent). That said, I have posted elsewhere that I have moocher relatives (on both sides and in several generations) who have no intrest in learning how to manage their money (or to teach their kids how to manage money), and who had been living a lifestyle paid for in part by their skill at getting others to pay their bills (story for another time), and yes that fries my cookies. </p>
<p>I have no sour grapes. We have saved diligently, paid for our kids educations ourselves (and some merit $- no FA money). I am self employed, and know the turbulence of a non-guaranteed income. My h was laid off for 9 mos. I totally understand where you are coming from. As I said, and perhaps wasn’t clear so will restate, my issue is not with anyone who has fallen on hard times or have individual circumstances that affect their financial situation. I know many people with disabled family members, and that is an expensive responsibility. No-- I have no issue whatsoever with this. I do have issue with people who either shelter their money so it doesnt show up on the CSS, for example, or who spend their money instead of save it, and then want to go to a top school but dont want to pay for it. In no way do I hear that you fall into that category, and am sorry that you thought that was my intention. If you’d like to meet any of my moocher , or tight-wad relatives (I have both) I will be happy to introduce you :). One set will have their hands out- the other will have their wallet sewn shut.</p>
<p>Sorry-- this is a sore subject b/c I get caught in between these relatives and have the responsibility to take care of some, while on the other hand saying “no” to the others. We are fortunate that we are a 2 income family (a choice we made) saved starting very early and have managed funds well, even in the toughest of times. But I didnt choose to work full time to pay for some other relatives who did not make the same choice. I hope that is a little clearer. I wish you the best.</p>
<p>I just want to add that we have a high EFC and can’t afford to send S to a 50K a year college.</p>
<p>If S had worked hard in high school, had worked to his potential, he would have been eligible for merit aid at some of the schools he would have liked to attend. So I see it as a lesson to him that he needs to work hard, that we are not going to (and really can’t ) make up the difference that his immaturity cost him.</p>
<p>That said, if he had done a better job in high school, and there was a school he really wanted to attend, we would have made more of an effort to bridge the gap. But we are not going to take on an uncomfortable amount of debt on someone who has only decided to show more effort in his senior year.</p>
<p>He is going to a state school with an excellent program. We have already told him that if he does well, we will help him to attend his ‘dream’ graduate school.</p>
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<p>I’m not interested in anyone else finances as that is not going to change my situation.
I’ve problem with HMSPY thinking to reward bad behavior and punish good behavior.</p>
<p>I don’t know anyone else finances but can make use of the FA calculator provided by each individual institute to properly find out EFCs for different situations.</p>
<p>I probably shouldn’t jump in here but I would like to create a bookmark so I can refer back to this thread later</p>
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<p>Really? You really don’t understand what HMPSY are trying to accomplish? It’s the financial aid initiative began by Harvard that is meant to benefit the middle class. They want middle class families to be able to send their kids to this kind of school. They cap the assistance for a family whose income exceeds $180,000 per year, I think.</p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with a family whose income is $200,000 per year complaining about having to write the tuition check because it might not be easy for them to pay it. It is a lot of money and they might well feel it, but they are full pays, even at Harvard.</p>
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<p>Some parents don’t believe in paying a lot for college, it isn’t about whether they have they money or not. I personally don’t agree with them, but it’s none of my business.</p>
<p>I also don’t get the original post. The information is meaningless without knowing what the income of the original family is.</p>
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<p>(1)Define bad behavior.
(2)Explain how you would know intimate details of the bad behavior of others.
(3)How is (your?) good behavior – if that’s what you’re comparing – “being punished”?
(4)How is it that you wouldn’t understand that those not in a position to afford an Elite education, due to no fault of their own, and having in other ways met that extreme standard for admission, have already been “punished” by deprivation and various hard circumstances prior to college?</p>
<p>I’m surprised at all the comments about how assets can make one totally ineligible for FA at these Ivy League schools. What level of assets are we talking about? Schools like Princeton or Yale don’t count home equity. No one counts retirement savings (IRAs, 401s, pensions). So we’re talking personal savings and investments. Although it varies a bit by age of older parent, families have an income protection of ABOUT $50,000. So savings of $200,000 ($150,000 above the income protection limit) will increase one’s EFC by about $9000. Now if you mean you have savings of $500,000 in addition to retirement accounts, then yes, that would be considered significant savings.</p>