<p>Yesterday I was leaning Vandy, but today I'm starting to like Emory a little more.</p>
<p>Which is better for Economics?</p>
<p>They are both great schools…I have lived and worked near both Emory and Vandy in the past and son was admitted to both of them. Emory has a lot to offer re great cultural events and good access to faculty and beautiful facilities. I like Emory!
Contrast points: School spirit and alum spirit is stronger at Vanderbilt if sports matter to you…one of my sons spends a lot of time meeting up with Duke alum for sports events as an alum in other cities…very fun for him. Vandy alum enjoy this aspect of post grad life although my Vandy son is not much of a sports follower. I do think that alum networking matters in some professions, not all. Vandy is going to have a huge national footprint with alum on its current trajectory. </p>
<p>The life of upperclassmen is diff at Emory vs Vandy. Vandy students are largely required now to stay on campus and many more Emory students move off campus. I think this dilutes the Emory experience plus I am not a fan of the Emory campus you move to a couple miles away either via shuttle–turns me off although freshmen get to live on the original campus. Vandy remains very walkable all four years.</p>
<p>Vandy wins in terms of where you can go on foot in any direction for fun, food, distractions,…Hillsboro Village, Elliston Place, West End. You can be in downtown Nashville in a jiff and the airport is not a big deal to get to either. </p>
<p>You can see Atlanta from the Clifton Road Emory area —it will take you 20 minutes to get there or to Buckhead. Decatur is nearby though and is super fun now as a close in community to Emory. Driving is just part of Atlanta life…and I like Atlanta a lot.</p>
<p>The town/gown thing. Emory enjoys the love of Atlanta and this is a lot of positive energy on campus. Atlanta appreciates Emory and you feel it. Same at Vanderbilt. Lots of Nashvillians are super glad VAnderbilt is there and proud. </p>
<p>Atlanta vs Nashville. Atlanta has more federal big bangs for the buck around in some arenas like say…the CDC next door. But I feel that Atlanta tends to overshadow the undergrad experience at Emory…Atlanta has so much to offer (I have lived their four times) that Emory students off campus start spending a lot of time off campus …that is my point.
Vanderbilt and Nashville have a happy relationship and Nashville offers a lot of fun things to do but you are more likely to have a cozy four years on campus at Vandy…yeah…by the time you are 22-23 you are ready to move on but this is a contrast point.<br>
Emory has a very strong pre business program…can’t argue that. And Atlanta has a lot to offer for internships of all kinds. Nashville also has a strong economy with a lot of viable internship and real world options nearby.<br>
Not going to look up who has the best Econ program…research it. But I know which school has the most highly selective student body and which school has had the huge upsurge in national and international interest and applications in recent years. </p>
<p>Go where you feel the biggest lift in your heart because to succeed…you need heart at any school. you can make Emory sing for you if it is where you feel most excited about applying yourself…But Vandy is undergoing an exciting 5-6 year upsurge that could be great to be a part of as a student</p>
<p>Thanks for your post Faline, i’m sure a lot of people will find if very useful!</p>
<p>Vandy is awesome, but Emory is still better in terms of a cultural scene and being internationally appealing (Which is among the reasons we have a large amount of diversity many of whom are international students). Emory is changing too. I don’t think it is fair to simply look at “selectivity” and application numbers which are things that can easily be manipulated on the fly. For example, Vandy has always had at least a slight edge on us in terms of students’ SAT scores and app. numbers. But honestly, despite the surge in apps., it seems as if the SAT scores of actual matriculating students at Vandy hasn’t changed too much (it has seen an increase, but one would expect more given its plummeting admission rates). Ironically, despite all of this upsurge, their rank has not changed. Emory fluctuates as expected in this arena. Emory has (or is changing) however changed moreso in terms of the University’s involvement and influence over key perhaps cultural and political issues. Essentially, the campus is slowly starting to become more intellectual because of this. Unfortunately many top research schools have the opposite problem (non or anti-intellectualism. Duke for example, has students w/awesome SATs, but promoting intellectualism has been a huge issue there, so much that there have been several campus forums over the years or last 2 decades, on it. The student body is apparently resisting it. The sports scene/fervor has been cited as partial factor ). We have it too, but as the school becomes more tied to such interesting issues (for example, we have the Tibetan monks learning science here, and that is really cool to witness, you won’t see it at many peers), the undergrads. become more involved, and you can begin to see a more intellectually/culturally driven student body. Besides, after a certain number, those SAT scores don’t matter but so much. Both schools have averages/medians approaching or passing 1400 so we know that the student bodies are excellent at both. 30-50 points doesn’t make much of a difference. Anyway, just presenting my side based upon my experience. What Emory lacks in rah rah spirit associated w/sports which is good/nice, it more than makes up for it in the cultural arena. I find this to perhaps be a somewhat beneficial tradeoff. Application numbers will not reveal the differences between the two in this area. Emory is still an exciting place to be because it is constantly growing/developing and always sees room for improvement rather app. numbers show it or not. Higher app. numbers and SATs do not=excitement to me. A more intellectually and culturally engaged university does. Emory is coming a long way here. </p>
<p>Also, I live at the place that is far from main campus, and I love it. The housing is nice, and it has great facilities and it’s by the forest/Lullwater. So if I want, on a nice spring day, I can walk to my bio class via the forest trail. Emory students are pretty in-shape, and the school has lots of trails/green-space not really associated with the academic portion of campus. You’ll find that many people actually walk or bike to class (or anywhere), so you’ll have to redefine “walkable” in the Emory context. It’s really not as bad as you make it seem. Also, you’re right about time off campus, but this only applies to some. Many people hardly get far from the Emory bubble (you’d be surprised how little some students know about Atlanta even after being here for say 2 years). My guess is that Georgia Tech and Vandy are more comparable schools in this context.</p>
<p>As for econ. and the OP: Going to be blunt here, I would say that the econ. dept. is generally viewed as mediocre especially compared to business. I’m not sure if I would recommend us if you are only into this subject. Both schools can be recommended as a whole if you plan to explore several interests, but my friends in econ. here generally think it is only okay despite having had some great profs. I think they find the course selection lacking and the variation in rigor among profs. as annoying as one who took easier profs. for say intermediate econ. is screwed in weedouts/upperlevels like econometrics(this one is apparently really tough). Also, most/many here do a double major with math. You should get some opinions on Vandy’s. I’d imagine the students there may like the econ. dept. better. So if you just want econ., you may indeed by better off at Vandy in terms of coursework/dept. Atlanta is however, advantageous for job. opps. You’d be so surprised how easy it is to get some internship at some top company with a branch or headquarter located in Atlanta as an Emory student. I have a friend who is not particularly experienced that has gotten several offers from companies which an econ. major may be interested simply by filling out apps. in EagleOps.</p>
<p>To reply to Faline2’s comment on upperclassman moving off campus and diluting the Emory experience, I would beg to differ. Only the upperclassman are allowed to live on Clairmont campus for one reason, it’s nicer than main campus so upperclassman get priority. In contrast to the traditional 1 room dorm shared by 2 people, the houses in Clairmont campus are apartment styled that come in 2 types, the Tower and the Clairmont Residential Center. The tower is a 18 story building in the center of the campus, where you can fully enjoy the night view of Atlanta(can’t see it on the first couple floors of course, you have to live high enough). The Residential Center is a fully furnished apartment complex coupled with in door parking decks. In here, each students gets their own bedroom and bathroom, but share the kitchen, living room and dinning area. In addition to the awesome apartments, the campus is equipped with an Olympic sized outdoor swimming pool(free to students of course), a gym, 8 tennis courts, a volleyball court, a field for soccer/freebie and a cafe for burgers and subs. Did I mention how nice the walk is to the main campus? The Clairoment campus is right next to the Lullwater park(yes, we have our own lake), a perfect place for jogging/walking,especially
in autumn where the tree leaves would turn orange/red. The scene is just amazing! If you’re in a rush to go to class, shuttles run every 3-5 mins, even less in the mornings. To go back to Faline2’s statement, living off of the main campus is not diluting the Emory experience, but actually enhancing it.</p>
<p>Bernie is always extremely fair and interesting (I used to read his posts when my son had applied to Emory) and I read chocolatenutz post with interest as well. You all should know. You live there. I’ll take your word about the Lullwater Clairemont scene.
I also didn’t much like the shuttle between East and West campus at Duke but was proved wrong. The freshman East Campus was a treasured memory and year in my Duke son’s life and although it seemed dissonant on campus tours for parents and HS kids, the reality was quite different for enrolled students. So I will take the Emory students posting here as the opinions that count.
Vanderbilt students have mixed feelings about remaining on campus for four years (fewer are allowed to move off campus)…and it is true that many 21-22 year olds are happy to get out of traditional campus dorms.<br>
It is true though that four years of residential living at Vanderbilt is on foot and shuttles are used primarily to get to the classrooms at the Blair School of Music which is closer to Hillsboro Village.<br>
The quality of instruction at Emory and Vanderbilt is very comparable with accessible teachers and a good mix of large school and intimate school. We really liked the teachers my son met at Emory a great deal–so personable. Emory’s graduate schools strengthen the undergrad scene just as they do at Vandy and Duke. ie…the Center for Ethics at Emory is world class and teachers undergrads but also med students and law students and nurses.
On Emory’s plus side for us was the information on the tour that only one classroom holds a large number of students…perhaps it was 200? Since we had a Duke sibling at that time…we know that Duke runs many large intro classes which is a bit surprising for the pricepoint although you can quickly get into smaller courses at Duke or Emory. Anyhow, Emory has the usual larger intro class situation but in our comparisons, we found that even Emory’s intro classes that are often larger at any college…Emory’s intro classes were at more personal sizes.<br>
I agree that some people might find Emory’s focus on treating cultural programs and artistic programs with as much press as sports…to be refreshing. Our current Vandy student felt this way about Emory. Emory has very strong programs in all of the arts…symphonic, visual, etc and access to big time productions in Atlanta any weekend is very wonderful for all. It can be terrific fun to enjoy Atlanta’s sports teams as well.</p>
<p>I have ideas about how Emory should consider altering their admissions touring, information, merit opportunity pathway, and committee of readers etc program…but I guess that is another post. The number one diff that was present in 2009, is that Emory has regional information and tour reps but then these regional people do not oversee applications first by region and follow their regional applicants all the way through the process like they do at Vanderbilt.<br>
Also, the lack of evaluative interviews on campus or alum interviews is a loss. These interviews even if only done by alum can be flawed of course, but in my experience they help students gain attachment and enthusiasm about a college. If Wm and Mary can do optional evaluative interviews in the summer on a state budget, perhaps Emory should consider implementing some system as well. Vandy offers alum interviews…ditto Duke but they were both pivotal experiences in our household that led to increased interest in each college. Alum interviews are a way to show Alum Pride and to talk about the outcomes of an Emory education to prospective students. Emory could use more school pride on display nationally among its alum.
We got caught in the fall-out of this approach…ie no matter how many times we FAX’d a supposedly (NOT) missing document from his Emory Scholar packet sent out by Fed Ex from his public home high school at their expense, bless them…there are like 300 students per GC… to Emory, there really was no person who took responsibility on the end to right human error. Our GC was told…someone will get back with you in 24 hours and a week later she would call again and again…someone will call you within a week…twice. Human error happens at all colleges but in our son’s case, his Emory Scholar packet, complete and turned on on time did not go to committee and getting anyone to rectify this was very trying and difficult, and in the end, just handled badly. We were informed by at least two different staff members that there is no regional rep to contact anymore during the selection/reading cycles of the process so people just kept passing the buck around. He did get reviewed --we read in a letter 4 weeks or 6 weeks later by “someone” but the names of the winners had been posted for six weeks by then. That year several families posted here with the same outcome of “lost” Emory scholar folder papers.<br>
anyway, our son lucked out and won a merit scholarship to Vandy so we aren’t damaged nor was our son any more deserving than the Emory Scholars who were selected his year. So much of merit rounds is unpredictable. I am not saying if he had gone to committee he would have had a different outcome. I am saying there was a lack of ownership and that I think Emory’s process could be stronger with consistency by oversight by regional reps all the way till the end–it would be a stronger system.
I do think being told that there is no more merit money in Jan/Feb and you are “on your own” with your FAFSA COA in March turns away so many kids who might come back round to accepted students days if there was a different system. ie the signature merit scholars are a done deal in early March at Vandy but there is still some merit money in many envelopes in April. There is no requirement --except for the Ingrams-- to come to campus for two days “or else” you are out…to compete on a weekend that conflicts with so many senior kids final commitments. Not only that --but Emory Scholar weekend conflicts with other mandatory scholar weekends at peer colleges. Why not just pick your scholars in committee after alum interviews are back in as well, and build in a reasonable yield rate like Vandy does with the CV Scholars. Interested students will return in April and take this invitation for merit offers seriously as they compare to other opportunities.<br>
I would also like to see the end of “two Emory Scholar nominees” per high school. That is just silliness in so many settings. In our high school, no one knows about this so whoever asks first gets to be the Emory Scholar…and that is just too random. What if the best qualified kid finds out a few weeks too late? In schools that love Emory and follow Emory, you eliminate other great scholar applicants way too soon with this limitation. Maybe for a liberal arts college this makes sense, but I think the 2 per school thing is not good for a large college. Can you imagine Duke doing this? Or Vandy doing this? I just think the landscape has changed so much in a decade that it is time to stop the 2 per school deal. ie in 2005 my eldest applied to Vandy and there were 11 thousand apps…this year 24 thousand. Do you think 24 thousand people would apply if they thought that merit money was off the table based on whatever random method a home school used to pick the two Emory Scholar nominees? we can all tell stories about how these nominees get picked if there is a committee in your home high school…that attempt to work out some parity…sorry Johnny…you can apply to College X but we gave College Y to Suze for merit opportunities. </p>
<p>I don’t think you can screen well anymore at the home high school level. Globalization and the Common App have altered the landscape. Why eliminate potential merit scholars so early in the game. Let the Emory admissions staff pick and drop the 2 per school limit.</p>
<p>Lastly, the energy that is Atlanta is really not comparable to Nashville. Atlanta is bigger bolder brasher and you will feel the multiple possibilities that only a major city generates. Nashville is an excellent third coast city with a more walkable campus smack dab in dining and homey neighborhoods you can walk on foot…more like Rice students have blocks and blocks of thriving college town businesses in Rice Village to stroll in and dine in on foot knitted right into the Rice campus.</p>
<p>thanks for listening to one parent’s thoughts based on personal experience and know that I think Emory is a great place that makes Atlanta a better place for everyone.</p>
<p>That’s actually good advice for Emory in terms of marketing/getting the word out there in an effective manner Faline and it is certainly an area where we struggle and I think the admins. realize it. We’re certainly noobs in this area (We’re back at 2008 app. levels w/about 17.5K, so the first attempt at more effective marketing may have been a success). Now that the Emory fervor “cooled off” for about 2 years, the U has had to actually result to more aggressive marketing strategies. It also would be nice if we could indeed mobilize the alumni better. I think we’re getting there b/c under Wagner(maybe beginning w/his predecessor), suddenly 110K have been recognizing themselves and donating as alumni. This is a sharp increase from the 70K at the transition period from one tenure to the next. And the continuing success of Campaign Emory is also indicates that we have some very loyal alumni (like someone gave an estate gift of 14.4million very recently to go toward Emory Advantage funds, which they intend to keep despite economic troubles). Basically, we have the money/donation arena solid and strong, if we can only redirect some strength toward the admissions process. Also, I’ve heard that the admin. office handling prospective matriculates(those already admitted) is very hit or miss, and has screwed up quite a few times, so some re-organization (or simply organization) probably needs to occur there. Your experience with it is indicative of this. You think they would try harder to yield an Emory Scholar. Also, I’m not a scholar, so I certainly don’t know how it works. That 2 per school system sounds like a mess to me. I didn’t know about that at all. Also, I did find it odd that the scholars were here a week ago. It would maybe have made sense if it moreso coincided with next weeks Open House and Admitted Students events.</p>
<p>Faline: I also think you inadvertently quenched a curiosity of mine. I always wondered if the intro. courses at Emory were perhaps abnormally small compared to peer research institutions. I haven’t been to too many other peers, so I can’t say. However, I thought it was the case and actually think it’s kind of strange. When you are in the intro. level courses, it’s awesome. However, when getting to some upperlevels beyond it, it can get sketch. Why? Because, bluntly the purpose of larger intros. is to weed out those not truly interested/with work ethic. Emory tries to make sure everyone can get a good grade in a course with rigorous content by providing a more nurturing which is commendable, but makes the rigor and quality of say ochem. and classes beyond suffer. For example, I hear that the undergrad. bio-organic (I decided to take grad. instead, b/c the grad. was based on enzymology and ugrad, lipids and carb. chem) prof. here actually had to review b/c some students had essentially forgotten organic chemistry.<br>
How did this happen? About 1/3-1/2 of the organic chem. profs. decided to water their classes down (still harder than most state schools, but a huge difference from the tougher/better lecturers offered. These classes would be on par or slightly lower than typical Vandy orgo. from what I saw, but the other sections are almost a bit out there compared to most peers) b/c they knew that many students had gotten past gen. chem when they probably would not have in a normal intro. course environment. Even then, some students suffer immensely b/c they don’t know how to develop a new and effective study strategy w/o reliance upon a prof.<br>
Even the good orgo. sections are still nurturing(As in profs. go out of way to provide resources for success), but the material in organic is so tough that the student can no longer purely rely on the nurturing nature of the prof. The way in which the intro. course was run tricked them into thinking that they could rely on that. Seems as if peers don’t have this problem as much and profs. certainly don’t have to respond to the problem by reviewing material or watering it down vs. more rigorous profs. Once a prof. does this, they develop a reputation, and students have so much power, that they best live up to it. For example, people know that Weinschenk/Soria=great but historically tough and those who sign up know what they are getting into. Just as people who sign up for Morkin expect it to be much easier than Dr. W, and if she decides to raise standards, she’ll never hear the end of it. </p>
<p>So for some depts., the personalized intro. courses could be kind of inappropriate/harmful though it may seem good at first. Weirdly enough, I think it works well in psyche and biology (b/c the upperlevel classes don’t vary in rigor as much as they do in say chem. or physics).</p>
<p>Bernie, you should be one of the first alum to write a letter to start a serious Alum Interview network.
Alum interviews can be very fraught with headaches and distractions for the staff, I am sure–alum can be time consumers and demanding… but interviewing prospective students and entertaining accepted students annually does stir up feelings of love for one’s alma mater in the alum. Let the alum tell applicants what wonderful things their Emory classmates are now doing in the work force. My Vandy son had Vandy at the bottom of his list till his Vandy alum interviewer surprised him with values they shared and interests they shared that my son’s outlook altered. My Duke son’s alum interview was dicier (not kosher and likely in the packet of what Duke didn’t want them to ask: “Name your schools in order of preference and where Duke is located on it numerically”…ha!) but so spirited and friendly that he came away fonder of Duke, a school he had not really warmed to much before. </p>
<p>Emory wouldn’t have had to work hard to yield my Emory Scholar 
but that really wasn’t my point…a. my son was not an Emory Scholar, he was one of 2 nominees from his home high school b. he may not have fared any better if his packet had made it to the selection committee meeting. (the missing form was the Nomination Form which our home high school sent a total of three times to Emory…you would think with 2 phone calls from the head of the Guidance office that the issue of “was he a nominee or not” could have been accepted. Again, he was our school’s Emory Scholar because he was one of only two that asked. Emory is not a known school in our region. I think some high schools actually review their seniors in committees to decide how to distribute these opportunities among their deserving seniors.</p>
<p>Vandy son was also admitted to wonderful Rice but didn’t get their merit offers. I must say it is rather refreshing (although not putting in extra essays didn’t help our son any) that Rice does not require any special applications…they simply issue their Rice merit decisions and that is that. I guess Rice just builds in a certain yield factor. I think one of Duke’s merit scholarships is also “sans special application.” </p>
<p>I can understand that Emory wants to give merit dollars to people who “get” Emory and who will seriously consider matriculating. Emory also has its own core ethos and mission statement and I can understand that they are looking for “fit.” Each of these fine research large colleges in the south have distinctive histories and cultures. </p>
<p>The CV Scholars and the Chancellors at Vanderbilt submit extra essays and references and take their chances after that. If you want a lot of participation from states far away and from around the globe, I think that this method has worked pretty well at Vanderbilt in the last few years.</p>
<p>That is great that Emory Advantage upped their financial need generosity in the middle of the recession. Very admirable decision making. thanks again for letting me lay out how I think things could alter a little in the Emory number of applicants although my ideas could be out of date since they are from 2 cycles ago…the Emory campus has so much to offer.</p>
<p>I will have to leave it to Vandy undergrads to comment on how the thorny thicket of getting so many bright kids through organic and upper level deal-breaker courses goes there but I believe your tour guides say that only one truly huge lecture hall is built at Emory. And I was a bit surprised that some Duke courses were pretty darn Jumbo in things like Econ, Psych and early levels of other department intro courses.</p>
<p>Well, I just got my financial aid for Emory - far inferior to Vanderbilt’s offer. They would both cost about the same, the difference being Emory’s includes about 5k in loans each year plus twice as much work-study. Vandy’s eliminating loans is really great. If I had made it all the way to Emory Scholar I would definitely go there, but oh well. Vanderbilt’s great, and I’m really excited about next year.</p>
<p>Good luck at Vandy. I think it was not meant to be anyway. You don’t want to come here for econ. I’m sure Vandy should be better off in dept. of interest. You could always fight for fin. aid, but it really isn’t worth the hassle (also, why is Workstudy bad? I thought it was generally viewed as good. I guess Vandy filled that in with a grant). I think Emory’s fin. aid packages (relatively new) is great for those below 100K (I made the cutoff for the Loan Replacement Program here), but other schools are more accommodating to middle class students (those perhaps above 100K, but below 175K maybe). Eventually Emory may have to become more generous in this bracket, but it isn’t doing that bad right now considering the newness of Emory Advantage. If it weren’t for it, I’d be at Georgia Tech right now (I now realize less happily so).</p>
<p>Oh and the tourguide is essentially right: The largest is Whitehall 208. I think it can fit over 200. It is the only lecture hall with even close to that capacity. Needless to say only certain courses can come close to filling it. These are generally courses that are only offered one semester but are very popular/mandatory. Before the PE fiasco, it included the Health 101 Class. Now it’s basically just Arab-Israeli Conflict and Drugs and behavior.</p>
<p>Faline and Bernie, than you both for your insights. Wish you were on the law school pages or that someone with your seasoning and insights were. Law school pages need this.level of discussion and intelligence.</p>
<p>I actually have a work-study at Vandy too. But way more grants.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for this discussion - it was highly informative!</p>
<p>Hi,
I am an international student and have received the acceptance letter from the grad school of public health(also named as Rollins school of public health) of Emory. I think your opinion is quite objective and helpful. So would you please give me some suggestion about the choice between Emory and UCLA? Thanks for your time.</p>