Agree 100% with doubleeternity. If at all possible, visit both this month before deciding. I have been to Vanderbilt a few times but never to Chicago. In reading about Chicago online & in the many mailings they sent to our house this year, the two schools seem quite different. Yet, both are wonderful choices! No one online can decide for you and your family. You are very fortunate to have this decision to make!
@bernie12 I didn’t ask to start a discussion about grade deflation on this thread, which is unrelated to that topic. All I’m trying to say is you are being unhelpful by commenting as if you have inside knowledge on a school you don’t attend.
We live in Chicago and my son is currently deciding between Vanderbilt and another school. We were in fact at Vanderbilt this weekend. Like many of you, I do believe in “fit” and so Vanderbilt is a very, very defensible choice. But I think this is a lot harder decision than some of you are suggesting. The OP stated in post #1 that “UChicago is significantly more prestigious, affordable, and has better academics.” My point is that OP didn’t just provide one reason for UChicago but three, all of them valid (although I suppose we could quibble about the word “significantly” since both schools are tremendously well respected).
The OP has a little more than three weeks to make up his mind. If he hasn’t visited UChicago, I would suggest that a visit could help him with his decision. I would also suggest that he bring his parents into the discussion, since they presumably are financing this education and may have some strong views on VU v UChicago.
If the $ difference is not substantial, I would suggest that the OP trust his instincts and go to the place where he believes he will be happier. But again I appreciate why the OP seems so conflicted in this case. Tough call.
@collegebobollege : How am I being unhelpful by simply showing a webpage or explaining my interpretation of some things I notice and then analyzing it. Schools and departments at schools use external reviewers all the time. They don’t need insider knowledge. They observe, get as much information as they can, compare it to their own perspective or some benchmark, and then tell the entity what it is doing well, what it needs to do to improve, etc. Again, there is nothing new here and clearly outside perspective does matter. Mine is just also based on the perspective of insiders as well. I generally try to make sure I am not the only with with such an opinion. There is no pretense on my part which also why often ask questions when I find something strange or unbelievable.
However I am not CNN and won’t look at several perspectives, present them, and then do no analysis (or even go out of the way to fake a non-biased approach) at all. If they (whoever is interested in whatever) cannot seek out or find internal sources to begin answering their questions, then I will, period. The insider perspective is never the only valuable perspective (all types of biases arise when we go crazy in attempt to yield someone by perhaps using our personal experiences and then spinning things into a positive light and do all sorts of things that eliminate the nuance and technically with-hold info. from the person wanting to know. I am even guilty of this though I try not to be. Often our own experiences are contrary to what many others express even in public venues). If it was, we would not care so much about things like USNews rankings which functions as largely an external evaluation outside of the concrete data they provide (things like guidance counselor opinions and things contributing to a reputation or prestige score can end up being based upon merely “do I know the name”).
You may think I am harsh, but if a student asks about the academics and then I say: “here, you should take a look at these course materials from this school which I found” versus just letting people describe them in the abstract. I think more concrete material and multiple perspectives (inside or out is more helpful). For example, if I am a prospective student wanting to take STEM(my clear area of interest) courses as a freshman and worry about the intensity of the courses despite taking the AP/IB equivalent, it may be of interest for someone to actually show them the course materials they will be dealing with instead of a bunch of people vaguely describing how “hard” it is (seriously, like if you are going to MIT or Georgia Tech and concerned about your first year courses, simply go find a course webpage and measure yourself up. You may be more or less comfortable than those describing them in places like this). I am just no longer down for the vague BS when folks can find websites and all sorts of stuff giving them more information on top of what they get from places like this. Oh, they are concerned about differences in grading…okay, everyone else at my or whatever school jumps up and down and says it is different, I’m going to provide actual evidence to the contrary if I perceive it to be false. Doesn’t matter if it is this school, mine, or anywhere else.
Vanderbilt by a mile.
People have called me a Vanderbilt hater on this forum because I say the truth: Vanderbilt is not a great school for non-white students. I still believe Vanderbilt is not great if you’re a minority as the prevailing culture is white and faux-Southern. Northerners, Mid-westerners, and West Coast kids pretending to be from Mississippi.
That said, I would go to Vanderbilt 100 times before I would go to UChicago. Much of Chicago’s prestige is due to it’s graduate programs. So if you’re CURRENTLY applying for a PhD in Econ or an MBA, I would choose Chicago over Vanderbilt. But for undergrad, the experience you’ll receive at Vanderbilt is much better than the experience you’ll get at Chicago.
UChicago does the same stupid grade deflation that Vanderbilt does. So you’re going to be similarly hurt grade-wise by going to Chicago. Also, Chicago students are not fun. The campus is boring. The Nobel Laureates are grad students.
Summary: If you love greek life, having fun, great academics, and prestige bs, then Vanderbilt is absolutely for you. You can go to Chicago for some economics/finance related grad school and get more prestige than you would as a Chicago undergrad. Same goes for Johns Hopkins, Cornell, UPenn, Brown, and Dartmouth.
Could the squabblers get a room?
VandyDone: the OP can go where he wants but I am astonished at how much you are dead wrong about undergraduate education at UChicago. If you would investigate a little you would find “The College” which is the undergraduate center of the University. The academic divisions cut across The College and the Graduate schools. The professional schools stand alone pretty much. But it is The College which is at least co-equal with the Graduate and Professional Schools. Also at UChicago you have The Core, which is an undergraduate thing and one of the things The University is most famous for. Take a look at the current fundraising campaign and see all the money earmarked for undergraduate education. I could go on.
The UChicago campus is not boring. The architecture is amazing. On what other campus can you find Frank Lloyd Wright, Mies Van Der Rohe, Helmut Jahn, and Olmstead creations in close proximity. 2nd City started at Chicago and improv continues to be influential etc. etc. Again, I could go on.
Vanderbilt is a great university and I know it well. Go there if the wind is too strong and the frats are not big enough at UChicago, but certainly certainly not because of its undergraduate education. You should go to UChicago precisely because of its undergraduate education.
I think the posters above who explained how UChicago undergraduates integrate their academic lives into their “leisure” lives came closer to the truth. And after all, isn’t that what we all seek with our lives: to make an integrated existence where your work is your passion?
“Vanderbilt is not a great school for non-white students.” Um…no? That may have been true a few decades ago when our student body wasn’t diverse, but thanks to Opportunity Vanderbilt and other initiatives, we’ve become a very diverse campus, in more ways than just race. Yes, there are minority students who have concerns and I completely respect their unique experiences, but to generalize and say that you can only enjoy college life at Vandy if you’re white (or even Greek), is very misleading.
@intparent My apologies. I was trying not to hijack the thread but got pretty frustrated. Best of luck to the OP, you have two great options!
@kaukauna : That sort of confused me too (and then there was the grade deflation claim again…killing me with that for either school). It reminds me of how people on CC like to attack JHU because it “isn’t as fun” and is “hard”. Often people make claims like: “It wouldn’t be relevant if it were not for the sciences” which is false. It was actually built off a similar model as Chicago and much more than STEM is extremely strong there. However I would say that:
“I think the posters above who explained how UChicago undergraduates integrate their academic lives into their “leisure” lives came closer to the truth. And after all, isn’t that what we all seek with our lives: to make an integrated existence where your work is your passion?”
That last sentence is unfortunately not true for many college students. It is perhaps because HS trained most of us to view academics as a chore or an obstacle that we needed to get through seamlessly and maybe have a class or two we enjoy from an intellectual standpoint every now and then. The idea of “integration” seems unfeasible or not worthwhile to many. And I don’t know if the naysayers are correct because I’ve heard such arguments against Chicagoesque like schools such as “we tend to stick to things that are relevant to the real world”. You know as if the students at a place like Chicago, Harvard, etc aren’t interested in that (as demonstrated by job placement choices and post-grad. opps). Their success indicates that not only their choices were not for the critics, but that they were wrong lol. Those attacks get so old that it is completely unfair.
While I recommend Vanderbilt based on OP’s clear preference, I cannot recommend it based upon the grounds laid out by VandyDone.
*Notice how I did not need to be an expert to hold the same opinion as you did.
Regarding “fit,” remember that 1) it’s a continuum, not a duality, and 2) the happiness or satisfaction of a particular student and it’s correlation to “fit” relies somewhat on how adaptable that student is. Some people are by nature more adaptable and can be happy in any number of diverse scenarios, while other people need a strong affinity with their surroundings, environment and community to find satisfaction.
To the OP, you indicate a strong affinity for Vandy, but you have valid reasons to be conflicted and desire Chicago. If you are an adaptable person by nature, you will likely be happy at either school, and the stronger program at UC could bring a deep sense of satisfaction. On the other hand, if your not on the adaptable end of things, go for Vandy.
I also think intelligent people (I’m assuming you have some intellectual prowess, or you wouldn’t be faced with your current dilemma) have a tenancy to live in the intellect and disregard the heart. This often leads us to over analyze when comparing two things that are good. It’s easy to decide when the gulf is wide and the choice is clear, but we can propagate a never ending stream of pros and cons when two paths appear roughly equal, albeit different. It serves us well to do the math, but in the end, sometimes we need to go with our gut instinct. The intellect informs the heart and vice versa.
As a parent, and having some modicum of experience, your academic and professional future is not dictated by the school you attend. Does it have some impact? Sure, but I think it is less than many think. It especially becomes the splitting of hairs when comparing top schools. Rather, your own initiative and drive will determine your ultimate direction.
Good luck!
Which did you choose?