<p>FWIW, there are a few hundred students each year who spend the same money to attend UT as someone attending Vandy full fare. They are either OOS or International. </p>
<p>" I feel very strongly that the “name brand” university at the undergraduate level has very little pay off. So, I’m one of those people who doesn’t believe the extra money to get an undergraduate degree from Harvard, MIT, or Stanford is worth it. If you get scholarships - great, go for it. But don’t go into debt to do it. " - NT2000. I agree TOTALLY with this. Racking up a major $$$ bill for undergraduate is in my opinion foolish. Especially if you go to grad school & you are there with numerous students who saved $$ by going to a solid state school.</p>
<p>NT2000…“Vanderbilt is a very good university but ‘nowhere near Harvard/MIT/Stanford…’”. Have you compared the entering statistics of students at Vanderbilt with these schools, or are you just fascinated by legacy rankinbgs and reputations??? You also seem to imply that there is no difference between UT and VU…quite a mind set!</p>
<p>Wow, lot of assumptions there, Oliver007. Amazing how you can read not only my mind but also my fascinations. If you can read and interpret my post, my evaluation of Harvard/MIT/Stanford is not based on an evaluation of the quality of their entering students but on the quality of the institution. Those three institutions are consistently ranked in the top 5 internationally. UT-Austin is ranked ~30th internationally. Vanderbilt is ~75th-85th internationally. We can quibble about the metrics, but the most objective - size of extramural research funding, amount of high quality peer reviewed research disseminated - is why these institutions (Harvard/MIT/Stanford) are consistently so highly ranked, and much higher than Vanderbilt. </p>
<p>FWIW, I am not a UT alum, and my terminal degree (doctorate) is from an institution that is ranked significantly higher than UT.</p>
<p>Back to my original point - even though Harvard/MIT/Stanford are so highly ranked, I do not believe it is worth going into significant debt for an undergraduate degree from one of those institutions when you can go to a top-tiered state school and graduate with no debt. Go to those top name schools for med school/law school/grad school, but don’t incur crushing debt for an undergraduate degree.</p>
<p>I understand this is the Vanderbilt forum, but you need to make an effort to not be so easily offended by imagined slights.</p>
<p>I agree that going into any significant debt (or other financial strain) is not worth it for the ranking/reputation values. Those values might matter some, but the correlations are weak. We all know (and know of) very smart and successful people who did not graduate from the “elite” schools.</p>
<p>One other consideration I might add for your decision: typically the university rankings are tied to the reputation & ranking of the faculty, in particular the senior faculty. This matters more for graduate school than undergraduate programs, in my experience (and opinion). Some schools without those high national and international rankings focus on, and deliver on, high quality undergraduate education. (Since you have a doctoral degree, you’ve probably seen some of this yourself.)</p>
<p>NT2000: Your perceptions were made plain by your expressed opinions…I had only to read what you wrote. I think it is unfortunate that stuff like “international rankings” influence some people’s minds about UNDERGRAD educational quality at various schools. Schools like Williams, Amherst, Dartmouth rank nowhere on these “international” lists, but I assure you they are worlds away from places like UT! I went to Yale undergrad, and had a sibling attend VU…so I know a bit about both places. Most recently, the caliber of entering students is quite similar. Unlike some others, I believe that has a lot to do with the quality of a school…rather than legacy rankings and “prestige” scores. Anyway, best of luck with your own decisions and priorities. The awe and fascination with which people view Harvard/Yale/Princeton gets way watered down when you get there. Take it from me!</p>
<p>I agree that the name at the top of your terminal degree is much more important. Undergraduate (for those going further) should be used simply to get you into a top graduate program. One of the elite flagship state programs (40 acres at Texas, Foundation Fellowship at Georgia) with their liberal dual credit, AP credit acceptance and encouragement and financial support to take grad classes and dive heavily into research will actually give you an advantage when applying to a top grad school. The success rates of these students getting into top 5 med/law/grad schools cannot be denied. The paid for foreign travel opportunities and no loans cannot also be denied. Of course, if you go into the right grad field - math/science - you actually receive a stipend ($32,000 per year, I believe) in grad school. A Ph.D. from a top 5 school with no loan debt! The decision is not as clear cut as some are making it. All things that glitter are not gold.</p>
<p>To add to my earlier post, I still believe Vanderiblt offers an all-around significantly better undergraduate experience than UT. I am a Texas native and very familiar with both schools. Simply taking graduate school rankings and extrapolating them to undergrad is grossly inaccurate-- it leave out a lot of important variables, and includes a lot of irrelevant ones.</p>
<p>That being said, I have no doubt that a student could be equally happy at both schools and end up with a career of similar pay/prestige. It’s difficult to justify spending that much more on any decision, whether it be college or a car. Fifteen years from now, the name of the college your kid went to will mean nothing other than who he cheers for on Saturdays. </p>
<p>My friend told me this story once - few years ago someone went to a BMW dealer and asked about the mileage/gallon, the salesman said BMW is not the car for you and referred him to the Honda dealer. I am not saying Vandy is BMW or that UT is a Honda. Just the fact that you asked the question - is Vandy worth $156K means that you value that amount and its not like its chump change for you. Since you also mentioned that your kid is interested in the medical school I would save the extra bucks for grad school or medical school. UT is a very good school and so is Vandy. if your kid is in DS or HSH program the decision is much easier because it will definitely give you the small school feeling. If you don’t have any fin aid or scholarship at Vandy go to UT.</p>
<p>All parents want their child to go where they will fit in, have the best statistical probability of academic success, job opportunities, in an environment/community that allows for the best social growth and development of 18-22 year old young adults, that works in their budget. Both UT and VU can offer a top notch education but neither can promise future success. UT and VU have slightly different missions. UT is a model for state flagships: large, inclusive, cost effective education for as many “IN-STATE” students as possible and deserves a shout out for not dropping in-state students for high stat, high revenue out of state students as many other flagships do today. Some parts of that mission also create problems: limited on campus housing, large classes, less access to faculty, higher drop out rates, low 4 year graduation rates (52%, so how much will a 5th or 6th year cost in COA and lost job income), 91% of students from TX, and a diploma that half the state has as well when looking for jobs. As a private university VU doesn’t have those limitations.</p>
<p>Since this is the Vandy board I would also look at what students are saying. The Princeton Review of Best Colleges uses current student surveys to look at several areas.
Happy students VU # 8 UT not ranked
Quality of life score VU 98 UT 90
Academic rating VU 92 UT 71
interesting prof. VU 92 UT 77
prof. accessible VU 88 UT 72
4yr grad rate VU 87% UT 52%
best run U VU # 18 UT not ranked
Also
football rank VU # 23 UT not ranked</p>
<p>two years ago,my son got accepted by Vandy, UT and A&M, he got good FA from Vandy and A&M, now he is a happy student in Vandy, this year he is working in a professor’s Lab and earned enough to cover his spending, also got a very good internship this summer to work for a major tech company, he promise to share the tuition for next year.</p>
<p>Vandy has need-blind admissions, and meets 100% of demonstrated need. What this meant for us is that my son (a freshman) goes there for something like $10K a year. Go to collegeboard.org and you can get an estimated calculation of financial aid you would receive.</p>
<p>On the other issues, this may sound like irresponsible parenting, but I think once you get to the academic level of the schools you’re considering it all comes down to fit. I really didn’t worry much about programs, rankings, etc.</p>
<p>I’d be happy to give you more detail on what life is like there for my son. Good luck.</p>
<p>Have you figured in financial aid yet? Vanderbilt gave us about $10k more per year than our FAFSA EFC, and covered the loans that the government offered our son. He is graduating debt free, and having saved us $20,000 over the cost of our state university. It was the best deal out there for him. (this was all need based. He has several friends that went to Vandy for free on merit scholarships). </p>
<p>If the numbers you gave are the actual costs, that is a lot of money and you have to consider your family’s financial situation vs. priorities. We chose to send our daughter to a private college that couldn’t give the same kind of financial aid as Vandy and will cost us $40,000 total or so over the cost of our state university. Our reasons for doing so:</p>
<p>We are a family of educators and we believe the educational experience is valuable beyond simply having a degree. Those four years of college are during a very crucial time in young people’s development and set the course for their lives. They are figuring out who they are, what they stand for, how they want to contribute to the world. It’s their first time living away from home and broadening their world view. It’s the only time in their life where they will be able to spend time with so many other people their age with such diverse backgrounds, interests and passions. If students don’t get these things in college, they most likely will never get them.</p>
<ul>
<li>A liberal arts component for perspective; we strongly believe that well rounded people are better citizens and employees, as well as happier people who understand other people and the context of the world they live in.</li>
</ul>
<p>*a campus community that fosters networking, involvement, getting to know many different kinds of people (not just those in your major). Larger campuses may have diversity, but those people don’t often interact with one another.</p>
<p>*Small classes taught by professors (not TA’s) who are committed to teaching, care about students and want to engage them (The big state research university prioritize their graduate programs and teaching becomes secondary to research). Part of education is developing the love of learning. This happens best when professors are enthusiastic, get to know their students and challenge them.</p>
<p>*Residential campus. Students who live on campus become much more involved in clubs, activities, service projects etc. All of which develops skills and character not available in the classroom alone. Students who live on campus develop a much broader network of friends and acquaintances, which adds richness to life and a network that can be very valuable in the future. </p>
<p>*A national/international university where they will have a chance to meet students from all over the country and all over the world. It’s a great way to learn about and understand other regions and cultures (and yes, there are many cultures in the United States) and form friendships and connections. </p>
<p>Also important considerations for us:</p>
<p>*High student satisfaction/ freshman retention rate: If you’re going to be spending that kind of money, it might as well be a good experience for them.</p>
<p>*High 4 year graduation rate: At state schools it’s often hard to get the classes you need, and several of my son’s high school friends who went to state schools are heading into their 5th year of college. That costs a year of income plus another year of tuition, room and board. </p>
<p>These are things that money can’t buy (except in tuition to a university), and for us, these things are an investment in our children. For some people these things aren’t important, but for us they are, and we were happy to give up new cars and vacations for a few years to pay for it.</p>
<p>Our son is graduation from Vanderbilt in a little over a week. He has grown more than we ever imagined and we know it’s due to the community he lived in for 4 years, his extracurricular activities and service, and the professors who challenged him academically and personally. I am thrilled with his Vanderbilt education without reservation, and though financial aid made it affordable, I would have sent him there even if we’d have had to pay more. </p>
<p>I hope this helps. </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>