Vent: PSAT abroad -- the beginning...

Parent Cafe
1

<p>On Dec. 10, following the advice of some experienced CCers, I decided to begin looking into where my D might be able to take the PSAT next year. She is an American in 10th grade at a German school. </p>

<p>I went to the website and sent an email. Got a very nice, prompt reply -- send us your Fax # and we'll send you a list of schools. I did; they didn't. We wrote back on the 21st, asking them to send or resend. Got a reply "Unfortunately, the deadline for testing has passed. The 2004 dates were October 13th and October 16th. We hope this information is helpful." I wrote back that I just wanted the list. They said Oops, soory, they would fax it. Still, we never got it. Could be any number of reasons -- something wrong on this end, or someone unfamiliar with dialing internationally. Who knows...</p>

<p>So, tonight I called them. This is the gist of the conversation:</p>

<p>Me: (explains situation)
PSAT: I have a list here for Germany. But it is for schools that gave it this year, and I can't guarantee those same schools will give the test again next year.
Me: Yeah, I figured it might take us a while to find which schools were giving it, which is why we would like the list now. We might have to travel some distance. Once I have the list, I can begin contacting them to find out. And if the military schools near us are on the list, I'm pretty sure they'll be giving it again next year.
PSAT: What are the names of the schools near you?
Me: Is there one called Vilsek?
PSAT: Yes, but they don't have any contact information listed.
Me: What about the two IB schools in Munich? Are there any International Baccalaureate Schools listed for Munich?
PSAT: Yes, here's one. (She reads off an address, stumbling with the German words, that turns out to be in Stuttgart.)
Me: That's too far. What about Munich?<br>
PSAT: Munich? Noooo. Don't see any.
Me: Munich. M-U-N-I-C-H.
PSAT: Ohhh -- Munich! Here's one that says Munich. International school - Thornberg [?? -- not sure I heard her right.] Is that the one?
Me: I don't know. If it says Munich, maybe that's a suburb.<br>
PSAT: Which one does your daughter attend?
Me: She goes to a German school. They don't give the PSAT.
PSAT: What's the name of the school?
Me: (I tell her)
PSAT: And they don't give the PSAT there?
Me: She's the only American there.
PSAT: And they don't give it?
Me: No, they don't. They never even heard of it.
PSAT: Well, what you really should be doing is contacting the schools yourself, to find out who's giving it next year.<br>
Me: I can't contact the schools if I don't have the list.
PSAT: Well, I can fax you the list, but there's no contact information for most of them. You might have to call 4-1-1 to get the phone numbers. Or maybe call the Department of Education for Germany.
Me: If I have the list, I'm sure I can take it from there.</p>

<p>I am hoping there's a fax waiting for my husband when he goes to work tomorrow.</p>

2

<p>Welcome to the nightmare! Didn't I warn that it might take six months and that it wouldn't be easy? :)</p>

<p>My advice is to try again and see if you can't get a more knowledgeable Collegeboard employee on the phone to start the process for next year.</p>

<p>My killer phone call from Collegeboard went to the deputy headmaster of my S's 150 year old school, one of the most prestigious in the country. Some 12 year old Collegeboard employee told him he would have to FedEx a sealed (!) letter from the Ministry of Education declaring the school's accredidation! Which we did but...it was like getting a letter from the Department of Education stating that Phillips Exeter Academy is an established secondary school. Crikey.</p>

<p>No wonder the world thinks Americans are arrogant.....sigh.</p>

3

<p>Binx, if you want to do this on your own you can Google "international schools" in Germany (or Switzerland or any place you can reach). Then contact the schools yourself. </p>

<p>Here's a map with all of the DoD schools in Germany. <a href="http://www.eu.odedodea.edu/images/germany.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.eu.odedodea.edu/images/germany.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

4

<p>Call back and ask for an explanation of the "alternative entry" for the year in question. Alternative entry is used when a student misses the exam because of health or other reasons, including being abroad studying at a school at which the exam is not available. It is easy, but you can't actually register for alternative entry until right after the missed test date. (At least that is how it worked this year.)</p>

5

<p>Try ecis.org to locate schools in Germany that may have information on the psat.</p>

6

<p>Thanks, everyone. I will try these various sites and see what I can come up with.</p>

<p>I don't really want to do "alternate entry" -- I don't think she's a National Merit candidate -- I just want her to have the test experience.</p>

<p>I just noticed I typed Dec. 10 in my first email when I should have written Oct. 10. That's what I get for typing late at night with high blood pressure.</p>

<p>I especially loved the advice to call 411. :)</p>

7

<p>Binx, We live overseas (in Indonesia) and although we never had issues with the College Board, we had plenty of communication frustrations. I was amused by and empathetic with your account of your telephone conversation and you are right -- this is only the beginning. </p>

<p>For example, the college that my son attends recently switched to a computerized record keeping system which only allows a three digit area code for the family contact number. And no matter how many times we've asked them to avoid regular mail, we still get correspondence six months after it was mailed.</p>

<p>You might try contacting the Munich International School or whichever local school has many American students. Or try calling a US organization like the American Womans Association. There are so many Americans in Germany, hopefully someone will point you in the right direction.</p>

<p>My son never did take the PSAT and it didn't measurably affect his SAT scores or his eventual application process.</p>

8

<p>Binx - if you want your daughter to take the PSAT to for National Merit consideration, you can arrange for the SAT taken in the spring of 11th grade to substitute for the PSAT. I don't remember the exact procedure, but it's pretty simple --its just a matter of writing a letter explaining the circumstances before the SAT is taken. I called National Merit and asked because I knew my daughter would be out of the country this semester and could not take the test. My daughter is a foreign exchange student in a city that is 90 miles from the nearest city which has an American school - and I have no clue whatsoever whether that school offers the PSAT to its students. </p>

<p>Secondly - I'd just like to note that my daughter and I just decided to forget the whole thing. This is partly because she took the SAT in the spring of her sophomore year, and based on those scores we don't think it's very likely she would make the cut off for finalist.... and quite frankly she is going to have enough stress over college testing without adding worries over the PSAT. I guess our feeling is that my daughter is taking a somewhat different route though high school ... and in the end she will probably focus on the type of colleges that will place greater value on her unique set of experiences and second language proficiency, than on test scores. </p>

<p>I can't tell you what to do -- but you may be getting unduly stressed out over something that in the end, is not all that important. I don't know what your daughter's college goals are -- or how important those PSAT scores will be to her... I can just tell you that we decided that in the greater scheme of things, it was silly for us to worry about the tests.</p>

9

<p>Momrath - Thanks for the empathy! Sometimes all we can do is laugh. We had the same trouble with college applications for middle child last year with the phone number. One on-line ap wouldn't take our address without a "state" and would only offer American states, even though it had a "country" slot! The stories we could tell.</p>

<p>calmom - I don't think I'm really "worried." (Stress is more related to constantly dealing with cross-cultural issues -- both directions.) German schools are quite different in many ways, including the types of tests they give, and we feel she would do well to get the test-taking experience simply because she is not getting it at school. We didn't expect for her to get to take the PSAT at all -- Only learned of the possibility from CCers and decided to give it a shot. She will probably not get many chances to take the SAT, so we'd like for her to have a good "sit" the first time around. Especially since her scores may matter more due to the "different" education and grades she is receiving here. What year is your D? Is she in the application process yet? I'll be interested to hear her experiences.</p>

<p>Overseas and Over30 - I looked at both sites, and sent off emails to a DOD school and an IB school to see if either could help. We'll see what happens. Thanks for the sites!</p>

10

<p>Binx, my daughter is a junior, and she is away for this semester only. The challenge of being a foreign exchange student -- living with a host family, being the only American student at her school, having all classes taught in a language she has not yet mastered, having everyone speak to her in a language that at first she barely understood, etc. -- are far more intense than any thing she ever experienced at home, where she was kind of student who coasted by, getting A's without much effort. The funny thing is, in trying to master the grammar of her host language - she has become quite the expert on what English grammar lacks - I had an interesting lesson from her recently about the unfortunate demise of the accusative case. </p>

<p>Since my daughter is away for a semester -- this year she can not take AP US history (always done in the 11th grade here); she has opted out of AP English in favor of Honors English because the honors teacher was more amenable to allowing her to do independent study for a semester's credit; she has lost a year of math and science. Since she isn't taking the usual complement of AP courses, she will not get the benefit of 2 semesters of weighted grades this year -- which will probably put her irrevocably behind in terms of class rank, even if she continues to get all A's. Of course she studies history and math and science in her host country, where classes are taught via straight lectures from the teacher,the text books have no pictures, and she doesn't have the slightest clue as to what the teachers are talking about 3/4 of the time. </p>

<p>I'm not complaining -- I'm just pointing out that my daughter is following a unique path through high school and she isn't going to "fit" a standard academic profile. She'll have 3 years of math and science rather than the recommended 4 - and since she is not strong with math, we expect that her math SAT will probably go down rather than up, as she is not getting the reinforcement she needs in math, and of course on the new SAT, the math is harder. Who knows what will happen with SAT verbal? Maybe this new found appreciation for English grammar will be a big plus... but then again, she might find herself thinking and writing with the structure of her host language, and they don't tend to put words in the same order that we do. </p>

<p>On the other hand, she's got plenty of fodder for essays and she plans to continue her language studies in college -- so that's a big plus at the right schools. She's just going to have to think outside the box a little when it comes to selecting colleges, making sure that she selects colleges who will value her particular array of talents and interests. This kid has a lot of courage, independence, and self-reliance -- most kids who opt for foreign exchanges do, because it is a big challenge to leave home at 16 or 17 and live with strangers in a place with a different culture and language. There are colleges out there that understand that and will very much want a student with my daughter's capability -- we just have to work a little to figure out which ones they are. I'm sure that colleges with strong foreign language departments or international studies emphasis will be a place to start. </p>

<p>I think your daughter will find the same thing. In the end, we've got very strong kids who have missing pieces in their academic records only because of the bold choices they made to take a divergent and more challenging path. Most colleges say they are looking for kids with strong leadership potential -- our kids have already demonstrated that they've got a lot of guts and determination. I honestly don't think that most colleges will penalize our kids for these differences -- if anything, this is a something that makes our daughters stand out from the rest.</p>

11

<p>Binx, at the risk of sounding calculating, I'd suggest trying to establish a personal contact at one of the international/DoD schools. Maybe I've been lucky but in my experience, GCs have been very generous with their time and advice. I called a couple of schools here in the UK, explaining that I was an American parent with a daughter in a local school and we didn't have the first idea how to get her in to take the PSAT. I found out that one of the Intl. schools routinely over-orders the number of tests required for its own kids, anticipating requests for the test from non-enrolled students. My daughter ended up taking the test there. The schools really varied in their approaches but the GCs all seemed patient with my questions. One of them said she didn't mind taking the time to walk me through very basic procedure because, as she put it, 'you must feel so isolated.' Well, I did, especially before discovering CC! (usmominuk, where are you?!) I should point out that I did a little research on the schools and was careful to call in what looked like the GC's 'off peak' season. I am very grateful that these GCs were so helpful to someone who had obviously decided against going the international school route.</p>

12

<p>Calmom, Bravo for your empassioned description of your daughter's road less taken. For sure "There are colleges out there that understand". I am a firm believer that all of the selective colleges are looking for interesting kids and that foreign living experience in an off-beat culture is much, much appreciated. Don't worry about the 4 years of math/science. (My son didn't have either for completely different reasons and in the end it didn't matter.) Don't worry about the SATs; they're only one piece of the puzzle. I'm sure when the acceptances start rolling in your daughter will have what it takes. The real challenge is going to be finding a school that appeals to her intellectual curiosity.</p>

13

<p>Calmom - Actually I think your D and mine are having very similar experiences. (What country is your D in?) We threw our D into the German Gymnasium with exactly 4 weeks of German lessons prior to the first day of school. The school has been great to work with, very accomodating in terms of not grading her at all last year, etc. This year we had to beg for grades, and are happy that so far she is scoring at or above average on all her exams -- Which is not as good as she is used to, of course, but amazing when you consider she is doing it all in a language she didn't even speak a year ago. Your comments about the lectures and books are exactly what we have experienced! Text books are considered "supplementary" info here. My D has much fewer ECs than her brothers did. Instead, last year she spent much time at the computer translating her notes, and reading English text books we bought so she could learn the basic concepts and not get too far behind.</p>

<p>That's great that your D is able to continue with so many of her classes, though. I've heard many folks say their foreign exchange student children lost the semester or year altogether. We are hoping that D will be able to take the same entry tests that home-schooled kids take when they are moving into public schools. We will, of course, have transcripts, but the courses and grades are so different, I think it would be easier if we could just prove that she has learned algebra, biology, chemistry ... and so on. She is taking on-line courses for English. But it is not well run, and I wish we knew of a better on-line course. I guess I should start another thread to see if anybody had any ideas! But I am like you in that I think the character my D has shown, being able to walk into a foreign school and culture, and succeed, has to mean something to some college somewhere! </p>

<p>I realized belatedly that those emails I sent this morning will probably not even get read till next week. Forgot about Thanksgiving! (Easy to forget, since D and H still have school and work!) I know the DOD schools take off; don't know about the IB schools. Samuck - You're probably right about needing to call -- Arghh. I hate phones! But maybe I will try to call the schools next week. Frankly, we haven't had much luck dealing with the GC at the local DOD school. I am trying to go through the principal this time.</p>

14

<p>Update: Got the fax of schools today! Also got a reply from the IB school, saying that my note was being redirected to someone else. Haven't heard anything back from DOD yet.</p>

15

<p>Binx - my daughter is in Russia. She had 2 years of high school Russian plus 3 weeks studying at Smolny in St. Petersberg before starting her foreign exchange - but now she is in a small city which rarely has visitors from other countries and the language just isn't the same -- they all speak much faster and are not accustomed to hearing an American accent. My daughter does not get grades at her school - in fact, they really expect very little of her. At first she hoped to be able to get credit for her courses, but she quickly gave up that idea. It's not that she isn't taking the courses -- its that about the only thing she can make sense of is what she already knew. I mean, you can't learn a new concept and the words to express it simultaneously... especially in an environment where no one is using pictures. </p>

<p>One day she was asked to take over teaching an English class for younger students. The assignment was to read a paragraph that described in great detail the furnishings in a room - the kids were expected to read the paragraph orally again and again for practice. My daughter, being American-educated, added another assignment for homework - she asked the students to draw a picture of the room being described. The kids freaked out -- they protested that they didn't know how to draw, that it was an impossible task. Of course, here the kids are always being asked to make drawings, displays or models in language classes - its very interactive and participatory. But over there, the kids either sit and listen, or they read aloud from books. My son found the same thing when he was helping teach English in Thailand, and tried to coax the kids into participatory activities like word games or songs. In many cultures, school is a place where students stay in their seats, listen and take notes, and speak only when called upon to read or recite. My daughter also has science classes but no labs. </p>

<p>One reason my daughter opted for a semester rather than a year abroad was to avoid losing the whole year. Arranging for independent study for English was fairly easy, because it was just a matter of getting a reading list and writing essays about the books she reads; and of course she will be given credit for her Russian class. Hopefully there will be an AP Russian class here next year... but that is something being developed, the AP test doesn't exist yet. </p>

<p>I do think that in the long run, it is much more of an intellectual challenge to try to master a new language, even if the kids miss out on some of the academics. I mean... they can always study and read up on biology if they didn't quite get it all the first time around, or take an introductory class in college -- but there really is no subsitute for full immersion for learning a language. And the experience of living with the other culture is invaluable -- your own daughter's route would be a lot easier with an international school, but then she would really miss out on the experience of living in Germany.</p>

16

<p>Calmom, I am impressed with your D. She must be incredibly brave and self-assured. Surely those traits will take her a long way. And Russian is not an easy langauge! Wow, wow. You said she was the only American at her school. Who is she living with? Did she know anybody beforehand? How in the world did you ever talk yourself into letting her do this? </p>

<p>Has she had much culture shock or homesickness? My D has been so much more resilient than I am -- I'm guess it's the age. I used to be a lot more flexible, too. (In more ways than one.)</p>

<p>Hope somebody gives your D a piece of turkey this week! :) Or at least a picture of one.</p>

<p>And back to the topic at hand: Got an email today from the IB school saying they didn't see any reason why my D couldn't join them for the PSAT next year. Yea!</p>

17

<p>Binx, my daughter is living with a host family, on a YFU (Youth for Understanding) exchange. When my son was 17, he went to Thailand for a month with AFS, and we briefly hosted a Thai student here -- so I'm familiar with the foreign exchange programs. They arrange the hosting and there is a local rep. that can be contacted in an emergency. I've heard some horror stories about kids and host families, but my son absolutely loved his Thai host family, and my daughter loves her Russian family. I think the first, short exchange was harder for me.... my daughter's started with her asking if she could do an exchange like her brother had done, and then it grew into the idea of a semester exchange. She didn't have to talk me into it, but I decided at the outset that I would not help her in any way with the application process, other than signing needed permission forms and writing the checks, figuring that if she had to arrange all the forms and interviews on her own, it would demonstrate that she really had the motivation and maturity to handle the trip. </p>

<p>I don't think my daughter has had problems with homesickness, though of course she misses her friends. But the big change, even from the time that my son did his exchange just 4 years ago, is technology. We send text messages via our cell phones almost every day, and she uses an internet cafe for email and blogging. I have a phone card for cheap calls, and I probably talk on the phone to her for at least an hour a week, and she's always cheerful and eager to talk when I call. I think the biggest frustration is not homesickness, but that she can't fully express herself and all her thoughts to her host family and friends there, due to the limits of her Russian vocabulary and their Engish vocabulary. English is taught in all the schools, of course, so all the kids there have at least rudimentary English skills and are as eager to practice their English as she is to practice Russian. </p>

<p>My daughter does say that it has been far more difficult than she ever imagined -- but I think she feels positively about it . She's thinking of taking a gap year after high school and going back to Russia. It's kind of strange, because she also feels much more nostalgic about America than ever before, and says that being away makes her realize that there truly is a distinct American culture that is part of her - and that America is where she belongs ... but clearly she also is developing a love for Russia. Our ancestors -- going back 4 or 5 generations -- came from Russia and Lithuania, and in fact my daughter has cousins living in Moscow. She had not met them before -- but did spend a weekend with them on this trip. </p>

<p>But culturally... all I can say is that the world has gotten a lot smaller, and the people of Russia are pretty much rushing headlong into being more like the people here, for better or for worse. The kids listen to the same music and see the same movies. She watches "Sex and the City" and "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" on t.v.. She eats at McDonald's. She hates school and is not at all fond of winter, but loves to go out clubbing. She fights with her host mom about normal teenage stuff (what she eats and how late she stays up at night). </p>

<p>With the text messaging and phone calls, it really doesn't seem any different to me than if she were away at college somewhere in the US. I have more frequent contact with her than I do with my son, who lives only 60 miles away. I think she is looking forward to coming home, but also enjoying the time she is there ... and I'm kind of enjoying my time by myself and my vacation from parenting, too. </p>

<p>She does miss Thanksgiving! ... but I told her that I'm not doing anything today, and suggested that we could do a full Thanksgiving dinner for a homecoming celebration when she returns, and of course invite all her best friends. So one way or another she'll have her turkey. </p>

<p>I'm glad it's working out for you with the IB school -- thats one less thing for you to worry about. My daughter's already missed this year's PSAT, but as noted, I think that's the least of our worries.</p>

18

<p>Woohoo Binx! Glad you found a spot!</p>