Venting: anyone else tired of justifying MT?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>So, let me get this straight. I should take my S, who did get 700 on Math SAT’s, take calculus, take and did well at Physics courses at Williams, and find some surgical or therapeutic intervention that makes him want to be an engineer. Hm.</p>

<p>How exactly do you smug STEM parents propose I accomplish this? </p>

<p>Is there interest and aptitude reassignment like gender reassignment? Imagine the moral questions that would raise.</p>

<p>Williams is not an easy school. My kid is very thoughtful. His objections to many engineering and physics jobs is that one works for the government on military projects. He is a pacifist.</p>

<p>I think the scientists who made the A-bomb and the government types who decided to drop it could have used some ethicists or humanities types to give them some perspective on what they were doing.</p>

<p>My nephew has a very, very well-paying job straight out of GA Tech in designing pop-ups that annoy everyone. He failed some classes, but got through in 5 years. He’s a nice kid but very, very self-involved.</p>

<p>My S is altruistic, volunteers, political, brilliant. I guess I should say to him, Sorry son. Money only for STEM.</p>

<p>I have no idea of what he’ll do after he finishes a PhD in Art History. He has already worked at a museum, designed the entire exhibit space for a small, local museum, and is the office manager for a small photo-studio.</p>

<p>He reads Latin well and Ancient Greek a little. I guess I should have told him that was worthless, too. Who cares if we enter another Dark Ages because the only thing anyone knows how to do is math related.</p>

<p>I admire mathematicians. I admire engineers. But those are not the only perspectives we need to run a healthy society. We need many points of view.</p>

<p>BTW: I am a college professor of LITERATURE. Guess I should blush. I <em>do</em> teach the fumbling engineers how to write with respect and patience. I also earn more than many engineers I know and about the same as the brilliant physicists I know at Brookhaven National Labs. (Some are very close friends. They do deign to talk to me.) </p>

<p>I have my summers off, a month off in the winter and only work four days a week. </p>

<p>I guess my parents should have told me that a PhD in English was worthless.</p>

<p>Oops. Actually they did. They told me to become a lawyer. Many of the women I know who did couldn’t balance family and career. I did, and was only completely home for my one year paid sabbatical. Other times I worked half time when kids were babies and full-time since.</p>

<p>Our kids do not want to be engineers, can’t think that way, whatever.</p>

<p>Unless you have a good remedy for their love of art, need to participate in it, your advice isn’t useful.</p>

<p>And really, I don’t want to cut that away.</p>

<p>Guess what? My kid is left-handed. I didn’t turn him into a rightie either.</p>

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<p>Mythmom, if you find that intervention, let me know. I have your son’s clone here. Great in math, but doesn’t want to go in the areas where he could make the most money.</p>

<p>We needed to have read the Tiger Mom primers a long time ago.</p>

83

<p>Mythmom, my kid who went into Musical Theater was always strong in math too. She took the SATs at age 15 and scored very high on the Math in fact. She took AP Calculus in junior year of HS, and come to think of it, she started it at age 15, and due to a schedule conflict (nobody in her grade was up to Calculus yet), she had to do it as an independent study and was given all the assignments and tests but did not attend the class! </p>

<p>However, her passion for performing arts and being a creator are very deep seated and it is truly a part of her being and has been since she was in preschool. I cannot imagine her ever pursuing another field, even though she was an excellent academic student and very advanced in math to boot. </p>

<p>She did not go about “choosing” a college major. It was the natural path given that being in musical theater has been a lifelong passion and the core of her being. She is strong in other subjects but they are not her passion. For that matter, I was very strong in math when I was young but would never pursue a related field as I don’t like it, even if I am good at it.</p>

<p>I never cared what my kids took as a major in college. I am a believer in following your bliss. In the end, both kids got a fine education and that is what college is mostly about, not so much one’s major, which is only part of the experience and education.</p>

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<p>The demand we are talking about is demand for the services of musical theater degree-holders, not the demand for musical theater degrees among students.</p>

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<p>My child is majoring in musical Theater after graduating from performing arts school. She is not an honors student, but going to school at 17! I have always encouraged her to do what she loved. Life is too short to do what’s expected, especially as she did not know what she wanted to do. I take pride in saying that she was accepted after audition into a class of 9 students out of 240 auditioning. That usually puts it into perspective for any nay sayers…also the fact that MT students are able to get double scholarships…Education and Talent.</p>

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<p>I understood your comments (above) to be related to demand for slots in MT departments at universities, which there is more than enough of. If not, which “departments” were you talking about?</p>

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<p>the arts has consistently been funded by government in the past. Shakespeare and the King’s Men? commissioned works by nobles? far as I’m concerned, the arts was always funded by government or religious groups (which was basically government back in the day) for the longest time. it’s always been the well endowed giving money to the “talented, artistic individuals” to do things that they couldn’t do themselves…whether it was a performance or piece of artwork. it wasn’t only till recently when capitalism boomed and people tried to stop government from funding arts. why should the government fund someone’s very expensive hobby? well, let’s stop funding science experiments cause it’s just someone’s hobby. o you say that it’s for medical and technological advancements in the world. well, artistic exploration is necessary to unearth those other more abstract things in life that science can’t seem to do.<br>
and the reason why kids go to college for the arts? simply because the world today has made it difficult for people to enter the working world without college degrees. hence many kids go to college to earn a college degree whilst studying their craft. also some of these MT/Acting schools give numerous opportunities to kids who aren’t from big theatre towns and who don’t have access to the best training where they’re at. and just moving to nyc or la or some other city would be scary without a community one can immediately join, especially at 16-18 yrs old.
o and also the fact that these very talented kids would be competing with other very talented adults who DID go get a BFA degree and are therefore both talented and more trained than them.
this is too much. i’ve always been a proponent of the fact that getting a BFA is very unnecessary to be successful, despite being a bfa baby myself. but it’s simply because i believe in someone figuring what their own path is…these are the people i’ve run into the past who go up to me and tell me what i need to do for my career. i’m not gonna tell an aspiring rocket scientist what he needs to do because i’m quite clueless about his career choice. just because this is singing, dancing, acting…things people think they’re allowed to judge on a consistent basis, they feel they know enough to advise aspiring performers what to do to be successful.</p>

88

<p>Many aspects of civilization have traditionally been funded by government, including fire departments, highway systems, public education, public health, the arts, police departments, basic research, etc.</p>

<p>I personally am a huge fan of civilization and don’t even slightly resent paying taxes (or full MT college tuition) to sustain it.</p>

89

<p>let’s just ignore them… maybe they will go away…</p>

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<p>For the record let’s not forget that the United States Government funds many for-profit industries, either directly or indirectly, including:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Oil and Gas (through cheap offshore concession sales, tax incentives, direct contributions to fund R&D, etc.)</p></li>
<li><p>Agribusiness (through many varied farm subsidy programs and direct contributions to fund R&D, etc.)</p></li>
<li><p>Automobile Manufacturing (through phenomenal loan programs to save the failing GM and Chrysler)</p></li>
<li><p>Defense (through non-competitive purchase programs, direct funding for R&D, etc.)</p></li>
</ul>

<p>and more…</p>

<p>State and Local Governments also support for-profit industries:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Sports franchises through enormous bond issues to fund stadiums</p></li>
<li><p>Tax incentives to attract industries to relocate to their area (or to remain)</p></li>
</ul>

<p>and so on…</p>

<p>So I, for one, fail to find any logic to arguments against government support for the arts on some ROI basis (or any other basis for that matter). Governments support lots of things, including “big” businesses that should be able to support themselves. The arts create jobs and provide societal benefits just as real as any “tangible” product, IMHO.</p>

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<p>@TomServo: You just got told by EmsDad. Bye bye ■■■■■.</p>

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<p>Mr. Servo:</p>

<p>You talk about the demand for what music theater students can provide to the workforce. Apparently you have decided to ignore the material I pasted from Fredonia, in which CEOs are quoted as saying they like to hire performing arts students because of the work habits they develop during their education. Which is kind of what college is all about. </p>

<p>You are laboring under the impression that every kid who wants to get a BFA MT degree aspires to a starring role on Broadway. That may or may not be the case; for example my daughter would like to work for Disney at some point. It is clear you may not have a true feel for what MT kids are, what they think, and what they aspire to, much like I don’t know what say an engineering student would aspire to. What I do know is that the MT degree gives kids a certain set of skills that can transpire into varied careers. And I would also say that very few kids entering their freshman year of college know precisely what their future holds once they have their degree.</p>

<p>One last point. If you could tell me what degree is guaranteed worthy of the extreme tuitions colleges charge these days, it would be very helpful. As an example, there was a letter to the editor in the local paper yesterday from a guy with an undergraduate and doctoral degree in electrical engineering who can’t find a job in this economy. Should I send my daughter out to a high cost engineering school and spend big $$ for her to enter a job market like that? Or have her get an MBA when there are many that can’t find employment with that degree? If the purpose of your posts and of others is to decry the cost of college for an MT degree, then explain why other degrees are worth the huge investment.</p>

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<p>jeffandann–you shouldn’t have to defend the MT degree on THIS thread! Though you are doing a fine job. ;)</p>

<p>That said, I would contend a degree is worth big bucks if you have them to spend (unbelieveably, some people can afford full freight) and it is worth it if you can get a reasonable amount of grants or scholarships. But NO degree is worth going $100,000 in debt for, like some of the extreme cases we read about. Especially in this economy. How much debt is worth it? That’s another thread.</p>

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<p>mommusic: Thanks, guess I’m just a little ornery this morning, but the arguments made by the one poster just don’t make much sense to me. I just felt I had to make one more statement to his arguments, and now I’m done.</p>

<p>So to the original purpose of the thread, I guess I get tired of this attitude as well, and simply tell people my daughter has a gift and passion for music theater, and she knows it will be tough. But she is bright and talented and I am confident she will do fine in life, and she has my support as she goes forth. Just like my other daughter who some day wants to be a veterinarian will have.</p>

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<p>So I’ve been out of town and I have some comments:
I met a lawyer this weekend at a wedding who seemed to have an uncanny knowledge of the theatre where my daughter is working. Turns out he has MFA in Acting and spent three years in New York before deciding to go to law school. He had no trouble at all making the transition and agreed his on-stage experience gave him quite an edge in court. He said many lawyers are very nervous being in front of “12 people” but of course that was a piece of cake for him. He’s quite the successful prosecuting attorney now. So yes, MT folks who have a change of heart can go in a different direction.<br>
And yes, talented folks still need to go to school (in most cases) and not directly to NY after high school. Let’s discuss Kristin Chenoweth. BM and MM. And worth every penny. She blew us away in her concert. Everybody, run see her on her tour!
Finally, gee golly, I have a brilliant engineering son who has yet to be employed appropriately during the summer, while my artsy, math hating daughter at 18 is in in her 2nd Equity show this year. I never would have thought that possible, that the actor daughter would be gainfully employed in her profession before my engineering son was in his. I think it’s because she knows how to wrestle an audition while the lad didn’t spend time in theatre, and he is not good at marketing himself. I wish I’d had him spend more time in theatre; I think it would have helped him so much with interviews, etc.</p>

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<p>I don’t equate the worth of a college degree based on the income one can make when they graduate. I sent my kids to college to become educated. Granted, having an education is a big benefit in terms of any sort of employment, no matter the salary.</p>

<p>For that matter, I am in a low paying field (education) and have a graduate degree from Harvard. My education is not valued by the salary I earn but the intellect I acquired, not to mention the degree is truly a step to being employed generally speaking.</p>

<p>I feel my kids’ college and graduate school educations are worth every penny no matter what they end up doing or how much money they earn in the future. This includes the kid who studied musical theater.</p>

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<p>jeffandann–Veterinary school is almost impossible to get into! I predict dire things for your D! ;)</p>

<p>Actually, if vet school were EASY to get into, we would be overrun with veterinarian wannabees. And if I had to guess I’d say that’s a degree with less value in the public market than MT!</p>

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<p>Its getting to be you guy’s are no fun anymore, all Tom Servo wanted to do was to help some clueless individuals, notably of the Kardashian society, to possibly get a clue about life. I want to apologize for throwing my two cents into the fray since I realize I have touched a nerve with your vicarious thrills (you used to sing or dance, run an acting school and cosmetology studio) and how your gifted child is above all the problems that this country faces. That his or hers MT degree will transcend the pertinent issues and not be another statistic for underemployment or unemployment.
What is typical is not only the MT parents, but even parents of engineering students, again with their gifted child that has received an education with a marketable major. Unfortunately, most have no experience in their discipline and have spent 4-5 years in academia and yet expect to compete with other engineering grads with real work experience and internships. </p>

<p>“Apparently you have decided to ignore the material I pasted from Fredonia, in which CEOs are quoted as saying they like to hire performing arts students” if that isn’t the most delusional comment I have heard on this thread than it has to take second to someone’s comments on how selective the MT schools are vs medical school. </p>

<p>Again, thank you all, for some entertainment,certainly a few chuckles and hopefully we can meet again with subject matter more pertinent and viable.</p>

99

<p>Wow, just wow.</p>

<p>I DO have to defend MT regularly, but A quick and dirty response is…my D is pursuing MT BECAUSE SHE CAN.</p>

<p>She could also pursue many other things as she IS a Valedictorian, an Honor Student, and equally gifted in Math, Science, English, and History…oh, AND she is also an athlete. She isn’t settling for MT, she is following her dreams and I’m so happy she has the ability to do this!</p>

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<p>No matter which side I was on the above post is snide and unpleasant. Why is that necessary?</p>