Very Distressed-any advice?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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would like to see the data supporting that.

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<p>The other BGOs on here have access to this data. They can probably validate it. I think there is a 1175 NAPS average floating around the web somewhere.</p>

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It is my understanding the SAT scores from NAPS and foundation are not included in what gets reported.

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<p>The SAT profile includes ALL admitted candidates, no matter the source.</p>

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Average SATs of 1375 is overstating the stats reported by the admissions office.

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<p>The class profile includes all scores, direct from high school, prior enlisted, and prep schools. Interpolate. You will get close.</p>

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and they DO NOT retake SATs during naps or foundation.
Your information is outdated

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<p>As of when? I know prepsters who took it Saturday.</p>

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<p>Quote by Navy2010

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and they DO NOT retake SATs during naps or foundation.
Your information is outdated.

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<p>Perhaps your information is outdated. Did you NOT read my post? Yes at MMI even the USNA foundation sponsored kids take the SAT's. Not only that - they take an SAT prep class. Not only that - some kids are STILL taking SAT's.</p>

<p>Not only that I have a friend whose son was a USNA Foundation prep at NMMI last year - guess what? He took the SAT's while he was a student there. Per the order of USNA Admissions.</p>

<p>There are candidates and parents of candidates on here trying to make sense of all of this.<br>
They wonder whom to believe?<br>
Should they believe the mom of a plebe whose son was in a prep program two years ago. A single case scenario? </p>

<p>Should they believe a BGO who has spent the better part of 10 years volunteering his time as a representative of the academy and their admissions department? One who is privy to inside admissions information, who has personally overseen the appointment of 50 or more plebes and given assistance and encouragement to many by helping them get NAPS or Foundation scholarship?</p>

<p>Seems like a no-brainer to me.</p>

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<p>Just keep in mind JAMO4:</p>

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<p>USNA2010 is correct about NAPS and SATs.
NAPS class of 2007 did not retake SATs.</p>

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<p>This thread has been hijacked!!! </p>

<p>Here's an attempt to synopsize advice given regarding the original question:</p>

<p>NAPS/foundation is a valuable opportunity that can allow an extra year of preparation prior to entrance into USNA. It's worth giving strong consideration if it is offered.</p>

<p>It doesn't hurt to express interest in NAPS/Foundation to the CGO and/or your regional director. They can give the best advice about whether your specific situation is one that is likely to warrant NAPS/Foundation.</p>

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<p>I am going to NAPS and I figure that its probably a good thing. I've heard it will really help when it comes to adjusting to USNA. First of all I will already know how to fold clothes and stow things away properly and most likely know some required rates and ranks etc. It will also help academically.</p>

<p>So I am excited. :)</p>

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<p>congratulations and best of luck!!! A new member of the Class of 2013!!!!</p>

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<p>NAPS Class of 2007 DID retake SATs. I am checking. I think it may have been selective and related to the aforementioned 600 minimums.</p>

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<p>I do apologize. There are certain individuals, who, everytime I post, feel a necessity to discredit basically everything I say. These persons, with their limited knowledge and ulterior motives, as JAMO4 just stated above, cause confusion in the minds of new candidates and their parents. Note navy2010's last post. All four items which she mentioned were totally incorrect. Also note the present comments on the Reef Points thread. I feel I have to continue to stand for what is correct, assisting parents and new candidates however I may. Again, for the forum, I apologe for their shortsightedness and motives, whatever they are.</p>

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<p>USNA69- I appreciate the fact that you are "standing for what is correct". However, and this is not simply for you but several other parent posters as well, it is extremely confusing and often disgruntling as a soon-to-be-mid to try to sort through a lot of what is said and actually obtain those "facts". I often visit the Air Force Academy forum because they don't argue and I can get a lot of the same information (only on certain issues, of course). Again I appreciate all of the advice and different perspectives-they are all extremely valuable. But I don't even want to read these threads anymore because it doesn't really seem to me like most people are posting even pertinent information and most of the facts are repeated over and over again. I don't want to appear rude in any way; I respect you and the other parents and, like I have said, appreciate the fact that you are trying to help all of us perspective mids (because that is what this forum is for, is it not? ). But please, parents, stop bickering.</p>

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<p>I agree with you 100%. Maybe those who incorrectly attempt to discredit everything I say will take heed and we can get beyond the ensuing petty bickering. I will continue to present the Academy's position on situations as I see them. In that I usually stay in the background and only become involved in situations where misinformation has already been presented, often causes controversy. One thing I have learned over the past year on this forum, there is no correct way to tell someone that they are wrong. No matter how well intended, they usually are offended. Therefore, I simply stick to the facts, letting things fall where ever they might.</p>

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<p>To mdfromct:</p>

<p>I will not try to even guess at the machinations of the admissions office in trying to determine the appointments, either direct to the academy, or to foundation or NAPS.</p>

<p>What I would like to do is give you a mom's perspective.</p>

<p>First, I don't understand why YOU are doing all the calling and checking. This is your son's journey and he must be the one who takes the initiative to follow up as best as possible. Guide him, be his sounding board, but let him make those calls if he truly wants this.</p>

<p>Second, you already know he is on the lower end of the academic scale. Everything is relative to everyone else applying from the same state or district. Some less qualified candidates will be admitted from less competitive regions while more qualified will not be successful merely because of the pool from their congressman and/or senator. I know your son is fantastic; we all think our children are the best things on earth, but the eyes of the admissions office are less biased than we are in evaluating our sons and daughters. Knowing this, make sure you have a back-up plan B, C, and maybe even D. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.</p>

<p>Third, pray. If your son has done everything in his power to promote his candidacy, that is all that is left. If he does not realize his dream this year, then reevaluate for next.</p>

<p>I wish your son every success in his quest.
Candidatemom</p>

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<p>
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USNA2010 is correct about NAPS and SATs.
NAPS class of 2007 did not retake SATs.

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<p>Neither did the foundation kids in 2010... which I will qualify with "at least the ones we met/conversed with."</p>

<p>Our son was a foundation sponsored candidate for the class of 2010. He was at a foundation school with 2 other USNA candiates. To the best of my knowledge, they were not required, instructed, or otherwise advised to retake the SATs. Fact: these 3 did not.</p>

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Perhaps your information is outdated. Did you NOT read my post? Yes at MMI even the USNA foundation sponsored kids take the SAT's. Not only that - they take an SAT prep class. Not only that - some kids are STILL taking SAT's.

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<p>I assure you I did, and I do not have an answer as to why the candiates at MMI took SATs. All I can share is that the kids under foundation sponsorship for the Class of 2010 that we met and/or conversed with throughout the year from the Hill, Vermont Academy, Mercenberg, Kent, Bridgeton, Northfield Mt Hernon, Gunnery, Peddie and Salisbury - did not retake SATs. I cannot account for the remaining foundation programs, incuding MMI, other class years besides 2010, or why some retake SATs while others do not. </p>

<p>No doubt the issue can be put to rest quite simply. For those considering a foundation offer, if the issue of retaking the SATs is of concern to you, call the foundation folks directly - Capt Wallace and the two lovely ladies that assist on Maryland Ave will galdly give you the most accurate and up-to-date information.</p>

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The other BGOs on here have access to this data. They can probably validate it. I think there is a 1175 NAPS average floating around the web somewhere.

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<p>The profile for each admission class is posted on usna.edu/admissions. </p>

<p>Based on the numbers and percentiles reported by the admissions office, the bell curve falls further to the left compared to what one would expect if the **mean **was 1375 as implied; the mean falls closer to 1290; at least that was the number that came out when I ran the percentiles through SSP. </p>

<p>usna69-
you level of disrespect for views other than your own continues to astound me. It shouldn't, but it does. </p>

<p>I do not argue for arguements sake, nor will I be the one to initiate the personal attacks and insults. The fact that my opinion, or direct experience, differs from what you present as "fact absolute" should be cause for discussion, rather than the mud slinging it seems to garner. </p>

<p>I have said this on several occassions, but will repeat- we **all **speak from our own personal experiences- you as a BGO and alumni, and me as a parent. You have a certain perspective from where you sit, and so do I. There are times our perspectives align, and times when they clearly do not. It **should **give us cause to discuss. </p>

<p>There is no "ulterior motive" to my posts as you suggest, other than to share what our experience has been- which does not always fit into your "one size fits all" information. That you suggest, and outright acuse me of "otherwise" is inexcusable.</p>

<p>I have suggested, requested, and otherwise appealed to you on several occassions now, both publically and in private, to refrain from such dialogue. That you continue to do so (lest we forget the meddling moms dialogues) speaks more to your intent and integrity [or lack thereof] than it does mine. Your claim of "innocence" is insincere at best. What I am guilty of is falling for the bait. </p>

<p>If you continue to insist on sending insults my way, implied or otherwise, do so knowing the response will be a missle heading in yours. </p>

<p>My apologies to the other posters.</p>

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<p>Copied directly from the NMMI webpage:
USNA</a> Prep</p>

<p>
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The Naval Academy Foundation's Preparatory Program benefits promising candidates who are not appointed the first time they apply for admission. To enhance their qualifications for admission, the Foundation awards a limited number of scholarships for post-high school preparatory studies in a participating school. </p>

<p>The Naval Academy's Admissions Board automatically recommends candidates to the Foundation for sponsorship consideration. No special request is required. The Naval Academy Admissions Board typically recommends 500 candidates for the Program each year. Only 80 are selected as finalists. </p>

<p>The "preps" who choose NMMI follow a prescribed curriculum consisting of English Composition, General Chemistry, Calculus and History, as well as Military Science and Physical Education. They spend one year at NMMI studying, acquiring time management and study skills, learning the basics of cadet life, and retaking ACT or SAT tests if necessary. Following a successful year of study, they are offered appointments and enter the Academy. </p>

<p>Midshipman at USNA who have "prepped" at NMMI attest to the quality of the curriculum and the benefits of the program, and state that life as a midshipman is easier because of their prep experience. </p>

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<p>I have no idea why this would be posted on the NMMI webpage if foundation prep students do NOT retake the SAT's.</p>

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<p>
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and retaking ACT or SAT tests if necessary.

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So I would conclude from the "if necessary" **that there will be some candidates that are asked to take them (the **necessary group), and some that will not (the ** if** group) The question I would be asking is what makes it necessary. If it were me, I would be working hard to be in the "not necessary" category.</p>

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[quote]
There are candidates and parents of candidates on here trying to make sense of all of this.
They wonder whom to believe?
Should they believe the mom of a plebe whose son was in a prep program two years ago. A single case scenario? ... or a bgo with.....

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<p>With all due respect, they should research it out for themselves. No one.. not me, not you, not USNA69... NO ONE here is sitting at that admissions table. We all have our "views," limited and based only on our own experiences. Even USNA69- with all his intimate knowledge of USNA- even he is corrected by current mids who point out that the academy of today is not necessarily the same one he experienced decades ago! Does that mean his input is not valuable? Hardly! I will be the first to admit I have learned much from his insights- he has given me, on more than one occassion, much food for thought! On the same token, it does not mean that I cannot hold to another opinion, or that "one of us is right, so the other one must be wrong" mentality! Nevertheless, the point stands- it does not excuse poor behavior! Most times it is not what is being said as it is **how **it is said!</p>

<p>We have our fair share of other BGO's amongst us that manage to impart information without causing this level of controversy! Candidatemom has been posting on here far longer than I have- and I have never once witnessed her posts to be anything but helpful and respectful. It can be done! </p>

<p>Instead of chastizing me for sharing our family's experience, might I suggest sharing yours? A "friend whose son was a USNA Foundation prep" is information, but it is still second-hand and hearsay!!! </p>

<p>The smart candidate will sift throught the information- formulate their questions- then seek out the proper authority to get them answered. That "proper authority" is not here on CC, no matter how good a service we think we are providing, BGO, parent, "friend of a friend" or otherwise!</p>

<p>IMO, this forum is ideal for pointing out the similiarities, the discrepencies and the varience inherent in this process! It should support and stimulate inquiry- not stifle it.</p>

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<p>I believe the key words are If Necessary - does not say that it is a USNA requirement.
USNA2010 - you beat me to it :)</p>

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<p>^^^ thank goodness - for a few moments there I thought I was having another one of those senior moments!!! :eek:</p>

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<p>^^^^Don't let your self off the hook so easily. We must ask Profmom how "If necessary" and "USNA Requirements" can possibly be anonymous terms. Who else does she think would make it "if necessary". The minimum Academy SATs without a waiver is 600/600. The goal is to admit all applicants without a waiver. If the 2010 Foundation AVERAGE SAT is 1205 and the NAPS is 1135, stick those numbers in your SSP and calculate how many "if necessarys" there might be.</p>

<p>You are the one who has made a totally incorrect 'blanket' statement. For the sake of the candidates who rely on this forum, please give it up.</p>

<p>And lastly, get someone to help you with this. If the overall average class SAT is around 1300 as you have pointed out, and the NAPS/Foundations are, as I have stated above (get any BGO to confirm), those appointees directly out of high school must be higher than this average. Your SSP. if loaded correctly, will probably reflect somewhere in the 1360-1375 range. Again, for the sake of those who depend on this site, please quit attempting to convolute the issues.</p>

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<p>Soooooo.....that earlier pledge to 'stop with the bickering' lasted all of nearly 12 hours??????</p>

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<p>please do not bother profmom with the "if necessary" and congruence with "USNA requirements." (and as an aside, I will assume the word you were looking for is synonymous)</p>

<p>MMI language nevertheless, not poor profmom's! </p>

<p>Do us all a favor- call Captain Wallace yourself and get the word directly from the foundation itself and clarify it, once and for all, for everyone. </p>

<p>As far as the number crunching- *if * i was just crunching the (assumed to be correct) 1205 mean for the foundation candidates *alone * then your premise would be correct. You did not read my post correctly.</p>

<p>And please do explain how you manage to get a class SAT average of 1300 from a range of 1360 to 1375.... unless you are adding in 60+ foundation students (sub 600 you claim) and over 200 Napsters (sub 600 again!)... which is incongruent with your claim of an inclusive class mean of 1360!! What kind of fuzzy math are you doing? </p>

<p>What I crunched was the mean ** of the reported precentiles ** of the admitting class of 2010.... rechecked with the numbers of 2011. </p>

<p>Here's the data- run them through yourself...and by all means get someone to help ** you ** lwith interpreting the output. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/documents/Classof2011Profile.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/documents/Classof2011Profile.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>suggest you take your own advice and "stick those numbers in your SPP"...and do find help if you need it (I won't tell!).</p>

<p>Loaded correctly, run correctly, and statistically no where near the 1360-1375mean that you are reporting. (no help required on this end, thankyou) </p>

<p>Which is ** exactly ** why I asked you, numerous posts ago, if the foundation and naps SAT scores were included in what was being reported! You stated to the affirmative- so the point stands.</p>

<p>following this to it's logical conclusion (let me know if I lose you now...)
so are we to assume the foundation kids who are not required to retake SATs are not required because they have already exceed the minimum standard of 600? And if they exceed the minimum standard of 600, then why a foundaton or naps offer in the first place? and if 600 is the "minimum standard," what accounts for the candidates that gain admission with sub-600scores???</p>

<p>(BTW- the numbers the USNA reports on US News and World Reports, the Princeton Review, and even the "Top 300 Colleges" does not support a mean SAT score of 1360-1375! Why,on earth, would the USNA admissions office post a mean SAT range below what you claim to be so????? ) </p>

<p>SPP loaded correctly. Put the percentiles in and run the numbers yourself. Nowhere near the 1375 you are claiming.
If you see USNA data that reports otherwise, please do share!</p>

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Again, for the sake of those who depend on this site, please quit attempting to convolute the issues.

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<p>I would suggest the same of you!</p>

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Soooooo.....that earlier pledge to 'stop with the bickering' lasted all of nearly 12 hours??????

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<p>never agreed to anything of the sort!</p>