Very high GPA -- Middling SATs

Parents Forum
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<p>I am a first time poster. Not quite sure what to think of this and how it will play out, but I would love to get some reaction, feedback, and advice. </p>

<p>My D is HS class of 2015. Her high school is a very competitive northeast public school. I don't want to say which one because I don't want to "out" her in case a local person is reading this. Let's just say, for those of you familiar, that the HS is in the peer group of Scarsdale, Edgemont, Jericho, Greeley, Tenafly, etc. In other words, it's not a grade-inflation HS, not a place where you can coast, and it is a place where there is a lot of competition. I'll get to why this point is so important.</p>

<p>Anyway, she is taking a rigorous program. She will have 8 AP classes by the time she graduates. All other classes are honors. She has never gotten less than an A- in any class. She is ranked 18th in her class of about 400 students. Her GPA is 4.3. (I think the highest you can get is 4.6 or 4.7.)</p>

<p>Here is the catch. She has taken SATs three times, and her superscore is just below 2000. It seems out of whack with her GPA. I've searched a lot of threads here about this issue, and most say that the student "obviously" comes from a HS with grade inflation. That's why I made the point above that this is not the case with my D.</p>

<p>Here are my questions:
1. How can this discrepancy happen?
2. What will colleges think of this? (Every college knows her HS very well and knows how competitive it is.)
3. Should she make her list based on her GPA or based on her SATs? Her SATs are in the middle 50% for colleges like University of Maryland, but her GPA and coursework are right on target for the most competitive schools in the country.
4. Will highly competitive colleges automatically screen her out because of her SATs? Why would a school like, for example, Penn or Columbia, be interested in her when her GPA peers likely have ALL scored higher on SATs?
5. At less competitive schools (e.g., Univ of Maryland, Tulane) will she be excluded from Honors College or nice merit grants because of her SATs (I've heard it is based on SATs, not GPA).</p>

<p>I feel like she is between a rock and a hard place -- not competitive enough for the highly competitive schools, yet not competitive enough for the perks she might otherwise be eligible for at a less-competitive school.</p>

<p>Trust me, she is very stressed about this. </p>

<p>Thank you for any advice, observations, input, etc.</p>

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<p>Has she tried the ACT? I would suggest she do so. </p>

<p>She is currently a junior and has taken the SAT THREE times already? Why? </p>

<p>It is very possible that her SAT score will improve with the May or June administration and fall senior year, simply because she has taken more of the applicable courses. But then…five SATs? Were some middle school ones? </p>

<p>Even so…she needs to stop stressing. There are plenty of colleges who will welcome her as a student.</p>

<p>What are her CR and Math SAT scores. In many cases, those two are the ones that matter.</p>

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<p>One word for you: Bowdoin. </p>

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<p>And yes…SAT optional schools should be looked at. However, if you are looking for merit aid (from an sat optional school giving merit aid), you might be required to submit those scores. They are NOT awful SAT scores!</p>

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<p>Thank you. So exciting to get some reactions.</p>

<p>Regarding the ACT . . . her initial ‘assessment’ produced a result saying that the SAT is her better test. Besides, it is our understanding that the most competitive colleges, especially the ones in the east, tacitly prefer the SAT. Nonetheless, she IS going to try the ACT. </p>

<p>She has taken SAT three times because she took one in the fall of junior year. At these ridiculous competitive high schools, that’s when they start. Her best CR is 620. Best math is 670.</p>

<p>Yeah, try to tell HER to stop stressing.</p>

<p>Why Bowdoin? I don’t know much about it, but will look into it.</p>

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<p>A similar thing happened at my high school last year to an even greater degree. The valedictorian in a class of nearly 200 kids took the SAT three times and his M+CR was 1080.</p>

<p>I think some kids are more equipped to succeed in a class setting than a test setting. They have excellent study habits, but for some reason don’t have test scores that reflect it.</p>

<p>Also, I would agree with thumper. Have her take it again fall of her senior year. I took the SAT three times and improved drastically with each test. Once in the spring of my junior year, once in the fall of my senior year, and once during the winter.</p>

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<p>Let me add that on practice tests she has scored above 1400 in CR/Math. </p>

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<p>I agree: look at the SAT-optional schools if the goal is to get into the most intellectually challenging school possible. If you need merit money…not terribly knowledgeable there, but Mount Holyoke gives merit and is also test optional.</p>

<p>The M and CR superscore really does make the most difference. Has she taken SATIIs? AP exams? She might want to try the ACT.</p>

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<p>OP, calm down.</p>

<p>Your D is a great student and guess what- there are dozens of u’s that would be thrilled to have her as a student. You can either “feed the beast” by obsessing about the two handful’s of colleges that won’t admit her, or can move forward by helping your D find a great fit at a college which will really want her.</p>

<p>Your choice.</p>

<p>IMHO the most productive thing you can do right now is to sit down with your tax returns and checkbook statement and recurring bills and figure out exactly what you can afford out of savings, current income, parent loans. Then work with your D to come up with a list of colleges which will meet her academic needs and which you can afford, some of which will be “sure bet” schools, some of which will be the likely schools, and one or two of which will be reaches.</p>

<p>Having her grind away at a test, or worry about said test after already taking it three times seems counterproductive.</p>

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<p>

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<p>@brantly‌: Because it’s a really great little college that is test-optional and likely considers your area a feeder for its entering class. Well, that, and the proximity to a drive-in lobster roll stand. </p>

<p><a href=“Test Optional Policy | Bowdoin College”>Test Optional Policy | Bowdoin College;

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<p>A good SAT optional school that she could look at would be Wake Forest, it’s a great ranked school and the fact that it is test optional, would be very helpful for her. Has she tried the ACT? I’ve only taken the SAT once and I got a 1980, but I’ve been taking practice tests and have not been getting more then 50 points higher, but when I took the ACT, I got a 32 which is about equal to 2120 (so a lot better!). I know that it’s this way for a lot of people. And just something to remember is that I know UPenn requires you to send all testing… so at this point if she is thinking of applying there, I would make the transition to ACT. Hope this helps!</p>

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<p>you really need to have her take the ACT…my D had a 1980 on her only SAT course (sept of junior year)…we were really bummed out because (lots of reasons). Then she took the ACT…she got a 31 her first time out and a 33 on the 2nd and she’s good to go…combined with her ECs & class ranking, she has a fighting chance no matter where she applies. </p>

<p>(one more thing…this is one of the benefits of attending a tough urban public high school…there are no counselors or teachers who have any time to give us any advice…we had no 'initial assessments" so we kind of bumbled our way into it…sometimes not knowing what you don’t know if best, ya know? :slight_smile: </p>

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<p>It sounds like her problem may be nerves more than an inability to take the test, but I agree do try the ACT. I have very little faith in outsider tests identifying which test is better for you. Colleges, even the East Coast ones, truly do not care which test you take. The ACT is actually taken by more students than the SAT though it may not seem like it when you live in SAT land. What is the breakdown of the scores? If the Writing Score is bringing her score down, I wouldn’t worry too much. Does your school have Naviance? If so check the colleges - you can see pretty clearly which ones put a high premium on the test scores and which don’t by looking at the Scattergrams. I agree with everyone check the test optional schools - there are some great schools on the list that would be good matches. The list is here: <a href=“http://fairtest.org/”>http://fairtest.org/&lt;/a&gt; Some of the schools will want to see other test results like APs or subject tests if they are available.</p>

<p>Finally how do you decide which schools to apply to? I think putting together a list is more of an art than a science. My younger son had a fantastic CR score and a Math and Writing score under 700. His weighted GPA was 97 according to the school, but if you threw out his orchestra grades his unweighted GPA was in the high 80s. His strategy was to aim high, but to have some solid safeties and to apply EA where possible. As a male he also applied to one formally female only school (Vassar). He also worked extra hard on essays to show that writing was a strong writer (which his history teacher and AP scores might confirm) even though he never really mastered the SAT essay. So what were the results. He didn’t get into the three most competitive schools he applied to, but he did get into U of Chicago early, (those essays helped!), in the regular round he got into Tufts (more quirky essays) and Vassar, as well as a safety where he got merit aid. There seemed for him to be a sweet spot where he got into schools with about a 20% admit rate (which UC was for EA). We didn’t know ahead of time where that sweet spot would be, but at most of the schools his CR score was in the top 25%, his math in the bottom 25%, his grades in the lower part of the middle and his rank (by the school calculation in the top 10% so always in the top reported.) My son also had three good SAT subject scores. (More than good for US History.)</p>

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<p>Maybe someone else here knows something I don’t know. I can’t think of any NE university that won’t take the ACT. If there are some such schools, could someone please list them?</p>

<p>Your daughter needs to make a list of the characteristics she wants in a college. Once that is done, she will find that there are likely hundreds of colleges that have those characteristics. </p>

<p>And if there are financial considerations…those need to be factored in as well.</p>

<p>ETA…I don’t mean to be dense…but she took the SAT for the first time last fall. When did she take the OTHER two SATs? </p>

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<p>Thanks, everyone. The advice we got originally was that she should pick a test and stick to it, not switch mid-way. At this point, though, she is so discouraged by the SAT and is hopeful about the ACT after hearing that a lot of her friends scored really high on it.</p>

<p>I looked up Bowdoin. Looks amazing! I will encourage her to consider it, but I am not sure she will. She is targeting schools that are a lot bigger than her HS. Do you think that with her current profile she would be able to get into University of Michigan? She wants to look into that one.</p>

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<p>Can you pay full freight at UMich? They don’t guarantee to meet need for OOS students. Her CR/Math is under 1300. I don’t think Mich is a slam dunk for an OOS student.</p>

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<p>Yes, my son insisted on schools bigger than his high school, hard when your high school has over 3000!</p>

<p>If she wants schools as big as Michigan at Syracuse for a safer bet. My kid was looking for schools with about 5000 undergrads, but did keep Vassar on his list as one of the bigger LACs. I believe that Michigan’s published numbers reflect the easier in state admissions - so that’s one you might want to check with the GC at your school. In theory it’s a match.</p>

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<p>That’s really a shame that a school like UMich might not accept a student with a 4.3 from a competitive HS simply because of low(er) standardized test scores.</p>

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<p>I didn’t say she wouldn’t get accepted. I said it wasn’t a slam dunk. UMich has very stringent admission requirements and moreso for OOS students.</p>

<p>Lots of bigger schools would be thrilled to have this student. Syracuse is a great suggestion. Boston University, University of Vermont, University of New Hampshire. What about some of the SUNY schools? Stonybrook, Binghamton, Geneseo? What about schools in Philadelphia? Or DC…American, George Washington. WhT about University of Pittsburgh? University of Maryland (although my kid got rejected from there 10 years ago with an SAT CR/Math of 1350…we never figured that out!).</p>

<p>LOTS of choices…lots. </p>

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<p>“Thanks, everyone. The advice we got originally was that she should pick a test and stick to it, not switch mid-way. At this point, though, she is so discouraged by the SAT and is hopeful about the ACT after hearing that a lot of her friends scored really high on it.”</p>

<p>Yes, that is usually good advice. But since she has tried the SAT 3 times, it is time to switch tests.
ACT is good because it is very predictable: subjects always come in same order with same number of types of questions etc. The only bad thing this that there are less REAL ACTs to prep with compared with the SAT.
There are 3-4 “Prepping for the ACT” practice tests on the internet, 5 practice tests in the REAL ACT book, a few bootleg old ACTs on the internet, 2 on the ACT online course. The last ACT of this year is June; she should study for it now so she can figure out where to apply. Here is one practice test to start her off:
<a href=“http://www.act.org/aap/pdf/Preparing-for-the-ACT.pdf”>http://www.act.org/aap/pdf/Preparing-for-the-ACT.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>On college confidential, there are a few threads about the best way to prep for ACT. Do a search on it</p>

<p>For ACT prep, check out this website
<a href=“http://bestactprep.org/free-act-prep/#strategies”>http://bestactprep.org/free-act-prep/#strategies&lt;/a&gt;
Click on the 5 different subsections of the ACT prep strategies.</p>

<p>Colleges will value ACT the same as SAT.</p>