Ithaca College has a fantastic music ed program.
I’d add UW-Stevens Point as it has both a top education program and music program. It is Division 3 for athletics so the marching band may not be as big/strong as big D1 schools but there are other opportunities like a very top theater program (pit opportunities) and some a town symphony and band.
If you want to save money, go south. The tuition, even for OOS, seems to be much lower and there is more merit.
So Michigan State he would be up for the honors college which would be instate tuition and research grant opportunity. Think half tuition or similar. My office is right by North Central if your talking about the one in Naperville. I see their students all the time. Kids like going there but don’t know a lot about their program. To me DePaul is more of a campus and its right in a great area of the city.
As far as the “high school talk”… Don’t worry. This is college… All that crap goes away. My daughter was in theater and like everyone is gay etc and no one cares. If he’s straight… No one cares. If he’s a good flute player… People will think it’s cool! If he can play like Ian Anderson… Very cool!!
Check this out…
https://music.depaul.edu/Pages/default.aspx
Great opportunity to check out DePaul. I might go.
@UniversityMomOf2 - Sorry to hear about the bias and bigotry your S had to endure in HS. If he needs any inspiration and strength please ask him to read the following bio
https://www.colburnschool.edu/faculty-listing/jim-walker/
I think Mr. Walker has done quite ok while not fitting the prescribed gender stereotype… 
All the best and good luck to your S in his quest.
We live in the upper Midwest and I know a number of working artists who did their undergrad at a smaller school in the UW system, many attended higher flying schools for a MM and work side by side with musicians from much more expensive programs. We’re keeping one in our back pocket as a safety. I’ve heard particularly good things about Stevens Point and Eau Claire. But I know musicians out of other UWs too.
We just visited Ann Arbor. I think their acceptance rate is something like 25%. DePaul music is much more competitive than their other programs. Acceptance rate like 12% we were quoted on our visit. Northwestern told us directly on visiting that their music student profile is similar to thei average student profile and that admissions can nix music students. Their overall admissions rate is 8% but music may be lower. Anyway, i think reach options are much easier to pick than safer options at least at our house and more competitive options seem to be dicier on merit. I actually think Lawrence is worth a look if your student likes quirky LACs even if it is a little small. That is a really unique flexible program. And they are test optional. Saint Olaf is very nice too. Both those are on our list. And he is definitely applying reach too but I’m going to really try to keep the numbers down.
@cellomom2 thank you for the suggestions. We toured some Missouri looking for his older sister and he wasn’t interested but I’m holding onto a few brochures just in case. Since grad school is something he is thinking about (and I am hoping for) I will do more research into your suggestions thinkzing longer term. Glad for the positive thoughts on the stereotyping. It’s sad people behave that way.
@twoinanddone I will also look at Stevens Point. I’m trying to find a time we can do a drive weekend just to look at campuses in WI/MN. If he can picture himself anywhere it will be worth a real visit.
@Knowsstuff I have wondered about honors colleges. I keep seeing special scholarships and info stating you could be invited based on your application but I don’t count on anything until it’s in writing. And yes it’s the same North Central. I am partial to the city but never really looked at DePaul for my kids. I moved here to go to Columbia College downtown and never left. It’s a great area. (But I would never recommend the place sadly. I’m sure things have changed but although it was fun they did nothing to aid in job placement.) I will click the link after posting this and then show S tomorrow.
@HereWeGoAgain2018 thank you also for the kind words and link.
He spoke with his flute instructor today. She again said ISU followed by UofI. She said she knows the flute professor at Millikin and would recommend that school, as well as Elmhurst. She said she thought UNT was good when he asked about it. I told him today about Eau Claire, Steven’s Point and St. Olaf. He was especially interested in the dual degree program at St. Olaf and reminded me a girl he once played with from him school is there now. She is double majoring in theater and mathematics. She was first chair flute my son’s sophomore year and she is an amazing singer. She always took lead in musicals. But she was also brilliant. I had never heard of the school she chose so it never stuck with me. So now he has her endorsement of that school. I like Lawrence. It’s a maybe for him. He is putting together what he needs for all the supplemental stuff for commonapp. Luckily a lot of the audition repertoire overlaps with some pieces he was already working on with his new teacher. And we have four people ready to write him music recommendations and several for academic. He could do more but I like using music recommendations from people who have known him longest who can speak to his growth, leadership, and abilities.
So we have North Central as safety (for economics), St. Olaf for the dual degree, 1-2 UW schools for the awesome Illinois tuition break, UNT for big school in warm state (no pre-screen there), UofI and ISU for our own state flagship schools. Then depending on his SAT retake and what I can get from his flute teacher for realistic audition expectations, we can see if it’s worth doing the pre-screens for the big reach schools. I don’t know that we have time for more but I’m looking at every school all of you wonderful people have suggested and letting him decide. Taking him to a college fair in a week or 2 and he has clinic at Elmhurst Sunday.
You are killing it @UniversityMomOf2 !
I obviously don’t know where exactly you live (and would never ask or expect you to share!), but I did want to mention that the “bonus” to IL schools (and possibly some neighboring state schools) IF you happen to be coming from school districts like Hinsdale, Elmhurst, Naperville, St Charles, Wheaton, etc. etc., the schools are “known” so (in our experience) stats from a school district like above were highly regarded as admissions was aware of what it takes to pull that off. My D had a bit of a mismatch on her ACT vs GPA / Class Rank. Coming from 1 of the above districts, she was at the top GPA / rank wise but no tippy top ACT - most of her peers at the top had 33-35 ACT scores (I know…now they do the SAT, but I don’t know the equivalents off the top of my head).
So, basically, local schools were seriously impressed that a kid with a “lower” standardized test was so high-achieving in a school loaded with over-achievers. My D has a very strong work ethic and this helped point it out. Further OOS schools seemed to have no clue.
(Side note: FWIW I had to just go look up her stats and realized I don’t think we even kept a copy of her transcript. Thankfully I have a copy of the resume she had put together. Funny how important this all was only 3 years ago and now I can’t even recall most of it!)
Also, realize it is sometimes difficult for a highly academic kid to choose a less strong academic program. Mine was drawn to schools with high academic requirements…it’s just how she is…but they often did not have what she was looking for musically. So, then she was “ok with the others” as long as they had an honors program. In the end, she decided to bypass invites to Honors program, etc so that she could focus more intensely on music. She did not get to do that in HS with such an unreal workload. (I know some kids can do both equally well simultaneously, but not all.)
RE: Environment/ diversity - It can be hard, but maybe try to find ways to spend time on campuses of sincere interest and talk to the student body or at least eavesdrop and observe! We didn’t but maybe just totally lucked out. My D would have had a very hard time with a student body that isn’t open and welcoming.
It sounds like you’re doing great letting your son lead the way. My D kept a lot of her thoughts inside during this process. It was only at the end and after starting college that she has been more open to telling me what was in her head throughout! I was doing too much, but just trying to be helpful. She was not voicing enough. We made this very difficult!
My D started out on a completely different path than where she ended up. It’s not the path many on here are seeking however I can say it is working out beautifully. So, keep the stress level low… it’ll work out.
@UniversityMomOf2 - I am not up to date (even after Googling) on Music Ed Flute pre-screens at UNT, but it struck my mind that UNT is very pre-screeny and auditiony, so I will believe you if you checked into it, but I would double check that if you’re not positive.
We found UNT to be one of the most popular schools for having their music on YouTube, so you can look up their marching band and ensemble to see if it satisfies. Nice things about UNT depending on what you think is nice is their is a friendly diverse feel, and their is a lot of accommodation for vegan diets. It has the attribute of large state schools that there is a wide spread of talent, so it is “easy” to get in, maybe a challenge to keep up, and has a lot of room to “move upwards”. There is also a reddit page, under /r/unt/ where specific questions (hey, these are student questions, so you are going to see a whole spectrum) and topics frequently come up.
In addition to wanting a good professor, we (you know, “we”) wanted a peer group and a school vibe that, if the professor retired, the learning would keep on going. That is why in general a “smaller” school had less appeal. The cost is also good because it is common to trigger their in-state tuition when they give you a small scholarship. Although S has now become a Texas resident, so that is a wash now.
@GoForth UNT requires pre-screen for voice and piano. Then, depending on instrument and concentration (performance vs. music ed/theory/composition) it states whether audition has to be live or can be recorded, whether pieces have to be memorized, and any other per instrument info. Flute is no pre-screen and audition is same whether performance or not. Jazz studies had separate criteria. (I’ve been keeping very detailed notes for each college he for sure wants to apply but I did just double check as I’m not perfect.) I do like the fact that if you get a $1,000 scholarship it triggers in-state but the way it was worded was a bit confusing. It said for the immediately following fall/spring/summer. So if your scholarship renews does the waiver? Or is that a one time waiver? You do bring up a good point about the retirement. I need to dig deeper there and it’s a good question to ask.
@dbandmom we are not in one of those school districts but I know what you mean, especially about Neuqua that excel at EVERYTHING. However, a couple of my sons teachers have the highest pass rates (4 or 5) on their respective AP courses in the state so hopefully we are at least somewhat known. I’m also hoping that when they look at his GPA and see him excelling in AP music theory, AP Psych, AP Cal BC, AP Physics, AP Econ and dual credit Rhetoric (college English) plus tons of honors courses, combined with being in 2 bands and all his extracurricular musical activities and until this year 2 sports that they will take the wholistic approach and not look quite as hard at his SAT if he doesn’t get his English score up where he wants. Even though not in those districts he does have a lot of VERY high achieving students. His weighted GPA of 5.2… puts him 51st in his class. Last year’s senior awards night recognized 15 students who got straight A’s in every single class ever (with lots of honors and AP) and over 100 kids graduating with 5.0 and above in a class of around 550. It’s hard to be ranked number 1 with that many high achieving kids. He is drawn to strong academic programs which is why smaller colleges sometimes worry me. If he isn’t challenged he will be miserable. Diversity is very important to him. His high school is very diverse and he wants a College equally so.
@UniversityMomOf2 - It triggers immediately, meaning that you would never be without it. You would have the waiver upon entry. At least that is how it worked for us last year. I think everybody or most everybody gets a $1,000 music scholarship, then that stacks with any academic scholarship, which is often in the $3K to $6K per year range. Unless you are NMF, then you get all paid for - one of S’ friends from Chicagoland did that.
I would say there are many Texans (local) at UNT. But, it is very friendly and open.
College of Wooster is another possibility.
Has your son considered a BA in music? I PM’ed you about this.
The story about teasing because he is a male flute player leaves me speechless.
I believe music ed is geared to public school teaching. If he wants to teach at the college level, he might want to reconsider that path-?
If that bonus is a one time only thing, you may be able to do a letter about “special circumstance.” The CS Profile has a section for this but the FAFSA doesn’t. Still, you could communicate with financial aid and some schools will make adjustments, some won’t, for something like a one-time bonus that is not likely to recur.
Why would you think a smaller school would not be academically challenging? Some are more so then others but just because they are small doesn’t mean they are easy. Diversity is different. A lot of the smaller private schools are yes very white. Not a lot of diversity. But when visiting even Washu St. Louis… That wasn’t either. The difference of diversity between Illinois Wesleyan and ISU or Beloit is like night and day.
@Knowsstuff I didn’t mean to imply all small schools were not going to challenge him. Believe me I know some are incredibly challenging. I just need to make sure to look at them. After all, Vandy is small and one of the top schools in this country. But there are a number of small schools in this region that are not strong academic programs. I had a chance to speak with both his band directors yesterday and they mentioned a few to stay away from, but also both praised St. Olaf and UWEC. Also said for our state schools to stay away from a couple because the education was terrible thanks to our poor state funding, and stipulations by our governor. I think diversity is important because it’s representative of our world but it is my son who specifically wants it which I’m proud of him for. He raised that question about North Central because when we visited there was no diversity apparent so he inquired about it and was told if he were there on a normal school day he would have seen something very different. I don’t think I looked at Beloit. I will. Thank you.
@compmom I got your message. Thank you. I will discuss it with him and his directors. I know one went that route getting his degree. He isn’t sure yet of high school or college teaching but wants to leave the door open for grad school. I have talked to a couple of admissions people about the bonus. I know it’s something I’m going to have to ask everywhere. Hubby’s company has a strange structure so he may or may not get a bonus and we never know how much or when. Two years ago he got nothing. Last year he offloaded some product the company was having trouble moving so they gave him a percentage of the sale in the 1st quarter of the year. This year he helped with launching whatever project it was and increased the sales for the territory he manages so unexpected bonus 3rd quarter. Next year may be nothing again. Company car is treated funny too. It goes on paycheck to be taxed for the benefit of having it but pulls it back out. So no actual cash in hand but increases our adjusted gross income. Instead of paying a car payment which won’t hurt us for FAFSA we pay taxes which does. I’ve tried figuring out the threshold for where it helps us financially not having the payment versus hurting my kids aid. It’s a fine line.
I can say that the colleges I’ve added to our list from all of your suggestions got high praise from both his band directors. It’s nice having all you amazing parents sharing your knowledge and greatly appreciated.
And @GoForth one of his band directors said he should get into jazz flute ? He mentioned the name of someone but I can’t remember who saying he could be like him and go really far.
@UniversityMomOf2 - Hi. Just conversing here. No real advice. As an aside, Mrs. GoForth and I constructed a plan where we would not give any advice to S. That is, We never say “You should …”, even if the next words are “look into” or “think about”. Of course, we chat every week, and discussion occur that revolve around considering options, but this has been a great experiment.
Anyway, if he is studying flute, it sounds fine to have extra dimensions to flute. Although when Ron Carter was asked if he also played the electric bass, he said No, then there would be less time to practice on the upright bass. We occasionally see a jazz flutist appear for the open play at Jazz on the Square in Woodstock. Or course of lot of jazz flute can be seen in real life as one of the many instruments the jazz saxophonists pull out when needed (as well as clarinets, piccolos, and soprano saxophones. There is a really fine jazz flutist starting at about 5:30 on this youtube video HHCKFPkHvXg
Ian Anderson is a famous flutist. He said he went to that instrument because at the time, all these hot young guitarists (Vah Halen, et al.) were coming out, and he couldn’t distinguish himself against those players.
@GoForth that’s good advice. Thank you. My son would probably prefer that right about now. Ian Anderson is amazing. We introduced S to him years back to show him to not listen to stereotypes. You can play flute and still rock.
My YDD was instrumental ed., flute primary. She was considering Lawrence and St. Olaf, as well as Luther College in Iowa because two friends were music majors there, Valpo, and Millikin. My ODD did DePaul for grad school and IWU for undergrad. Each has pros and cons. St. Olaf- lots of snow and cold, Luther- small, Valpo was in the running until we were completely turned off by their admissions rep., and ultimately she chose Millikin. DePaul is fine, but very hipster and living in the city can be pricey. Millikin is very laid-back, the kind of school where students and professors hang out outside of class. The facilities are extremely good for a school that size- a huge auditorium, in-house recording studio, and an all-Steinway school. The town, admittedly, is disgusting, but campus is lovely and students are friendly. Their “schtick” is performance learning, which in this case means that music ed. kids are in the classroom teaching as sophomores. It’s a good way to find out if you really like teaching while there’s still time to change majors. On the other hand, MU does not have a marching band, just a well-paid pep band.
Speaking with lots of experience- avoid ISU like the plague. Their ed. program is not nearly as good as they like to think and the dorm situation is getting bad. The local landlords are beyond awful- you’ll never see your security deposit. Their gen. eds. are a joke. My D tutored chem there and it was basically what she had in chem 1 in high school.
No matter where you go, music ed. is a tough program. At some schools, it’s a 5-year program because there’s so many classes to cram in. It’s not that you can’t have outside interests, goodness knows my D had other interests, but you have to be committed to putting the work in day after day. It’s emotionally grueling. There’s constant criticism and unlike other majors, everyone else knows how well or poorly you’re doing. The unofficial motto for music majors is, “If you don’t hate yourself, you’re not doing it right.” It’s a commitment, and it’s best to go in knowing what you’re getting into.
You might want to see when Illinois Flute Festival is this year. It’d be a good chance to sit in on some masterclasses, maybe meet some professors, check out the host school, etc. My D went twice, one year it was Oct. and the other Feb.
@GloriaVaughn Thank you for your input. He is definitely concerned about the snow at St. Olaf. It’s his primary reason for disinterest but I don’t want him to rule it out without looking at it and meeting a professor. Luther keeps coming up. I liked it for my daughter sight unseen for the nursing program. I know it’s tiny. But maybe it’s worth a look. Millikin is highly rated by his flute teacher. She has a doctorate in flute performance and seems to know everyone. I also haven’t looked at Valpo and I will keep in mind what you said about the admissions rep. Right now my list is growing from this and other threads. I need to figure out what to do to narrow it down. I’m trying to put together a 3 college regional visit trip for next month when S has a few school days off.
His school has TONS of ISU grads for teachers and they wear it loud and proud. His flute teacher also recommends it highly. But like you I worry about the dorm situation. I had a long discussion about it on Friday with two teachers who graduated there a few years back and they assure me it isn’t as bad as people think. However my father who lived in Bloomington prior to retirement says I should not send my kids there.
I do like your statement about hating yourself. It describes my son perfectly. I seriously worry about his mental health when he rips himself apart but he always says it’s part of being a musician. I will look for the Illinois Flute Festival. Tomorrow I’m going to a college fair. Son should be going but of course it will depend on homework since he has marching band practice until 6:00 tomorrow. He needs time to shower, eat, practice for ILMEA audition and do homework. I guess it’s all preparing him for college but I do worry about burnout.