Very "peaceful" tibetan "protest" in China

[yucca]

<p>

Both countries have large, powerful, organized militaries (China’s army is humongous), tanks, planes, ships, nuclear weapons, etc. They are two of the most powerful countries in the world.

Oh,please,it’s not true.
The second most powerful country（especially military)is Russia.
Russia is still a very very powerful country even after cold war.And Russia is the only country which has the potential to be a superpower once again.I can’t think of any country other than Russia that can chanllenge U.S.</p>

<p>That’s why U.S still fears Russia.</p>

<p>Although I’m Chinese,I never try to deny the problems China has. China is still a poor country,just like other poor countries in Asia and Africa. The only difference is that,few people are willing to help people in China. </p>

<p>China is by no means a threat,this is really ridiculous.</p>

[butterbattle]

<p>If you don’t try, then obviously, change will never occur.</p>

<p>Not everything is politics.</p>

<p>

Think about it,how many countries don’t want U.S to invade Iraq? But U.S still did invade Iraq simply because U.S is the superpower who can bully any country.Nobody can stop it.

</p>

<p>It’s even worse than that. The government has the ability to not only ignore other countries and the UN, it doesn’t even listen to its own people.</p>

<p>Did you know, that for several years, in polls and surveys, about 65-70% of Americans didn’t approve of George W. Bush and the way the country was headed. They still don’t. His lowest point was an approval rating of 29%! One of the lowest in the history of America. </p>

<p>Americans protested against the war in Iraq, but the government ignored it. If you go to [ImpeachBush</a> / VoteToImpeach:](<a href=“http://www.impeachbush.org%5DImpeachBush”>http://www.impeachbush.org), you can see that over a million Americans have sighed a referendum to impeach the president. Does it work? No. It doesn’t do anything.</p>

<p>

So,when you analyze anything,just think about who will benefit.It’s all about benefits.

The reason is,U.S pays too much and gets too little. This is not a good deal.

</p>

<p>So when you evalute a situation, you only care about how it will benefit you.</p>

<p>That must be the disconnect.</p>

<p>I do believe in many of the things you stated. “That our Creator has endowed us with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness.” </p>

<p>We don’t really care about what happened in the past. We don’t care about the culture. We care about what is right and what is wrong. Next to those, all other values are minuscule. </p>

<p>I volunteer in multiple non-profit organizations. These groups don’t work for their own benefit; they work to benefit other people. I’m not sure if this is something you would understand. </p>

<p>So, you see, I don’t just want to benefit myself. I also want to help other people as well. </p>

<p>Perhaps, one day, when China becomes free, you will understand what I am trying to say.</p>

<p>Until them, you can believe whatever you want to believe, and I’ll believe what I want to believe.</p>

<p>Deal?</p>

[butterbattle]

<p>Yes, I know. I would say that Russia is second and China is third. China has a much larger army than the U.S. and it has nuclear nuclear weapons. </p>

<p>I think the the fighting would be much more intense than in Iraq don’t you agree? </p>

<p>Just looking at the size of the two countries even. I mean, we can’t even control Iraq, how could we effectively take over China?</p>

<p>The thought of America attacking China is ridiculous. I don’t want a nuclear meltdown.</p>

<p>Uggg, this is disgusting. How is it possible that we have such opposite perspectives on absolutely everything?!?!</p>

<p>The military looked pretty powerful in the Tianmen Square video. :)</p>

[yucca]

<p>

Perhaps, one day, when China becomes free, you will understand what I am trying to say.

I don’t feel,China is less free,or at least significantly less free than other countries.</p>

[yucca]

<p>Many countries have nuclear weapons,not a big deal.
China already gained nuclear weapons in 1960s.</p>

<p>

I volunteer in multiple non-profit organizations. These groups don’t work for their own benefit; they work to benefit other people. I’m not sure if this is something you would understand.</p>

<p>So, you see, I don’t just want to benefit myself. I also want to help other people as well.

I took a class last semester called"ethics",it’s all about this…different people have different views,anyway.Aristotle,Socrates…they discussed this topic a lot.</p>

<p>Yes,just believe in what you believe.</p>

<p>Do your parents read chinese？Can they translate an old Chinese saying"人不为己，天诛地灭".</p>

<p>Yes,they are non-profit organizations,not governments.Governments are not going to help other countries just because they want to help.</p>

<p>I also help others,but the cost shouldn’t be too high.The bottleline is:I shouldn’t sacrifice too much.</p>

<p>And as I stated,you are not a politician.</p>

<p>

How is it possible that we have such opposite perspectives on absolutely everything?!?!

Do you believe in God?</p>

[yucca]

<p>

The military looked pretty powerful in the Tianmen Square video.

I guess I know much more about this event than you do.
But I’m not sure whether you are interested(it’s a long story with even more than two sides,not a simple thing).</p>

<p>I’m not sure whether you are capable of listening to Chinese.There’s a series of youtube videos regarding that event,the most neutral one I found.</p>

[yucca]

<p>[YouTube</a> - Broadcast Yourself.](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0938BF24000377A1]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0938BF24000377A1)</p>

<p>You’ll find many amazing facts about this event.</p>

[yucca]

<p>

I think the the fighting would be much more intense than in Iraq don’t you agree?

Okay,at least we agree with each other this time.</p>

<p>If China is as weak as Iraq,China has already been another Iraq.</p>

[pharmakeus01]

<p>[ quote] Does Tianmen Square 1989 count as demanding it? Or is it just a few million ‘anti-nationalists’ trying to undermine the people, vanquished by the glorious PLA? [ /quote]
Actually, nobody except leftist intellectuals demand democracy, that’s why it failed. The PLA troops used to suppress 1989 were from Si Chuan province becuase they were farmers, they hated city people and they resented capitalists and radicals.
[ quote] The peasants don’t care because they don’t know anything[ /quote]
Such is the arrogance of so-called intellectuals who, after all, believes that all people are stupid except him and that all governments are inferior than western system of governance. </p>

<p>[ quote] If I’m a Westerner, then any Chinese person can become a Westerner simply by changing their beliefs.[ /quote]
Yes, they can do it by change their believes, their customs, their identity, and their citizenship. Unforunately, majority of Chinese don’t even know there is a thing called U.S Constitution, further, they don’t give a crap about what U.S says. That makes them very un-western, i suppose?
The assimilation into western society takes sacrifices, for Chinese in China, it means the destruction of their identity in favor of the west.
I will say that I’m westernized, but deep in my heart, I still have appreciation towards Chinese culture and heritages. That appreciation at the same time alienates my identity as western and therefore alienates me from the mainstream liberal western thought. I’d say that I advocate indiginous culture indepdence instead of an imposed colonial ideology.
Democracy is not the silver bullet. Japanese democracy consists of dynastical ruling of powerful family which defeats the very purpose of democracy. But westerners accepted them becuase Japanese government is a giant in economic affairs, and a dwarf in world politics.
They fear a different form of democracy in China because China has opposed ideological concepts, they have a well defined culture, and a refined philosophy. Those ideas are dangerous for the western soceities as China rises. The threat to the international system dominated by west have never been higher than the present. As China rises, U.S’s interests in Pacific will diminish significantly. And that combine with a fear for the “others” will ultimate contribute to a clash of civilizations. </p>

<p>Incoming global conficts in the future will be the conflicts not between ideologies but between civlizations. In one hand, we have the rise of radical fundamentalism in major Muslim states, in another hand, we have the western fear for globalization, and the resurgence of tradiational empires such as Russia and China, of which all have fundamentally different customs, practices, religions than the west. </p>

<p>Tibetan indepdence is a very good example of clash of civlizations. As Huntington mentions:“The future conflicts will be occured along culture fault lines.” and we see just that.</p>

[pharmakeus01]

<p>美帝包庇了不少汉奸，还指望他们帮着反华呢。而且汉奸多了，有啥稀罕的，我见过的汉奸还都挺自 豪呢。
西藏下面也有丰富的矿产资源，听说还有石油。</p>

<p>American Imperialists love anti-Chinese Chinese. But you need to remeber anti-China Chineseism is such a Chinese cultural trait that we can’t really deny. lol</p>

<p>Have you learnt history?This is not only happening today.</p>

<p>“Hundreds years ago,almost every western country is invading China,killing tons of people there,taking away the money.
The history of invading China is longer than the history of United States.”</p>

<p>That is such a Chinese cultural bias. Namely, all people outside of China are barbarians who want to plunder the great wealth of the celestial kingdom.
Remeber, the history of peaceful relationship with the outsiders is also longer than the history of united states.</p>

<p>“It’s crime,it’s violation of human rights”
When China becomes world No.1
They are going to say things like:“Confucian says: Treat your elders with respects, and since U.S has a horrible health insurance program and a bankrupted social security, we are going to liberate them from the suppression of the capitalists.”
Do have a sense of humor.
Apply the golden rule, and just imagine what happens if Chinese come to your land and tell you to comply to their “humane” (therefore supreme)cultural values.</p>

[pharmakeus01]

<p>And Don’t ever tell me that China doesn’t invade other countries.
It is relatively peaceful because its long history of colonialism is regarded as insignificant in the face of global colonialism initiated by the west.
But the concept is the same, China invaded Korea hundred of times. China invaded Vietnam. China instilled its Confucian ideologies in east asia just like how Americans instilled its liberal democratic values in every latin american countries. Han Chinese subjugated other ethnic groups and kicked out Xiong Nu, Huns, from their indiginous land. Han Chinese subjugated Tibetans, Manchurians, Mongolians, and Hmong among many other ethnic groups. Chinese Han alieanted foreigners and outsiders and were hostile to foreign ideologies. Further, just like Westerners’ orientalism, Chinese people invented tales to justifty their wrong doings. Chinese mythology, for instance, is an instrument used primarily by Chinese leaders throughout the history to justify its suppression of minorities.
Throughout Chinese history, Chinese conducted thousands of brutal civil wars which resulted in huge casualties. For instance, Taiping rebellion is the second most bloody war in the human history. (and if you read Zi Zhi Tong Qian, you will know how brutal Chinese can become. lol)The dynastic history of Chinese civilization is in many ways similar to the history of the west. China is forged not through peaceful negotiation but through iron and blood, through the conquest of foreign races, and countless casualties. </p>

<p>Such attitudes of violence is expressed through the chinese national anthem:
Qi Lai Bu Yuan Zuo Lu Li De Ren Men.
Arise, those who don’t want to be slave.
Ba Wo Men de xue rou zu cheng wo men xing de chang cheng
Let’s use our body and blood to build a new great wall.
…
Wo men wang zhong yi xing, mao zhe di ren de pao huo, qing jing.
All united under one heart, marching under the enemy fire. Foward! Foward!</p>

<p>It’s very bloody, as bloody as you can get, and as bloody as US national anthem where you picture rockets flying around Fort Henry. </p>

<p>As for Yucca, it would be nice if countries in present time fight each other because of their interests. Unforunately, human has unconcious desires and fears. That drives people hate each other irrationaly without any logical justifications. The irrational attitudes are wide spread in Western society. For instance, why do people eat millions of Big Mac and masturbate to porn every day? Not because they are hungry or horny, but because they are trained to exercise their irrational desires/fears through the damnation of the media.
Same thing for the clash between the east and the west. Logically speaking, such fear and clash are very illogical. They are not based on the interests between different countries but on their fear of other civilizations. For instance, Kosov is indepdent not because the indepedence will gurantee them a double digit growth in GDP but a sense of satisification which is really hard to appreciate, or imagine to appreciate, under no electricity and shortage of food.</p>

[butterbattle]

<p>

Do you believe in God?

</p>

<p>Agnostic</p>

<p>

And as I stated,you are not a politician.

</p>

<p>Well, neither are you.</p>

<p>

believes that all people are stupid except him and that all governments are inferior than western system of governance.

</p>

<p>The peasants and farmers know more about culture. The students know more about politics and world events and human rights, etc. Capitalism is superior to communism, economically and socially. These aren’t opinions; they’re facts.</p>

<p>

Japanese democracy consists of dynastical ruling of powerful family which defeats the very purpose of democracy.

</p>

<p>A dynastic ruling family does not defeat the purpose of the democracy. A dynastic ruling family is simple NOT a democracy. Period.</p>

<p>

For instance, why do people eat millions of Big Mac and masturbate to porn every day? Not because they are hungry or horny, but because they are trained to exercise their irrational desires/fears through the damnation of the media.

</p>

<p>Lmao. </p>

<p>Why do Westerners like sending text messages on their cell phones? It’s not because they like communicating that way, and it’s not because they think it’s cool; it’s because it presents another opportunity to exercise their desires/fears through the damnation of the media. </p>

<p>Why do Westerners watch so many hours of TV? It’s not because they are lazy and attracted to cheap entertainment; it’s because it presents another opportunity to view criticism of China and to exercise their desires/fears through the damnation of the media. ;)</p>

[yucca]

<p>

The students know more about politics and world events and human rights, etc

Students?haha,go to class,do you homework,okay?</p>

<p>

American Imperialists love anti-Chinese Chinese. But you need to remeber anti-China Chineseism is such a Chinese cultural trait that we can’t really deny. lol

Yes,just like in WWII.
汉奸盛行</p>

<p>

“Hundreds years ago,almost every western country is invading China,killing tons of people there,taking away the money.
The history of invading China is longer than the history of United States.”

This is a fact.The first country to invade China are actually small countries like Portugal and Spain in 16th century.And the invasion became very severe from 18th century to 20th century.</p>

<p>

It’s very bloody, as bloody as you can get, and as bloody as US national anthem where you picture rockets flying around Fort Henry.

Yes,it’s bloody.Many many chinese civilians are killed by western invaders,don’t you think it’s bloody? Fighting back is also very bloody.
Remember? Freedom is not free.The cost to fight off invaders is very high.</p>

<p>

Why do Westerners like sending text messages on their cell phones?

Chinese send more text messages…this is another fact.</p>

<p>

That is such a Chinese cultural bias. Namely, all people outside of China are barbarians who want to plunder the great wealth of the celestial kingdom.

没错啊，蛮夷这个词你听过吗？</p>

<p>

They are not based on the interests between different countries but on their fear of other civilizations.

Without other civilizations,the earth is surely a better place.You won’t worry about green house effects,pollution,nuclear weapons..etc. Western world damaged our tradition culture,lifestyle and much more.</p>

<p>

majority of Chinese don’t even know there is a thing called U.S Constitution

Again,you underestimated how much Chinese people know about outside world.At least,most educated Chinese know that.Chinese are trying a lot to learn something from US.(师夷技长以制夷).</p>

<p>解放美国人民这鬼话确实以前说过，也挺扯淡的。但是现在没人说了。</p>

<p>我没觉得，杀蛮夷有什么错，如果可行的话。当然，现在天朝能抵抗住美帝就不错了。
Haha,anyway,nobody dares to say so in public because it’s not political correct.In the country where people believe in the freedom of speech,yes,haha.</p>

[yucca]

<p>

The assimilation into western society takes sacrifices, for Chinese in China, it means the destruction of their identity in favor of the west.

How is it possible to assimilate into western society for someone living in China?
This is funny.</p>

<p>汉人还是太善良了，那些少数民族根本没有杀光，越南和朝鲜都只是附属国，没算进自己的领土。
白人杀光土著，然后侵略墨西哥，那才彻底呢。</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>ALRIGHT. People. Calm Down. This discussion is going no where. It is quite clear that Yucca will never convince Butterbattle, and Butterbattle will never achieve the same on Yucca either. </p>

<p>A debate is a debate. End of the story. Debates are supposed to harness mutual understanding and a beneficial exchange of ideas. The purpose is to be a more well-informed citizen in our society and not let anger, prejudices, or old hostilities take over.</p>

[butterbattle]

<p>^ awww, but he just posted more BS.</p>

[jasmincn]

<p>Nobody likes violence. “War is hell, but sometimes you have to break things to make things better.”</p>

<p>The reason Tibetans protest is they don’t want to be part of communism and China. They want to get “divorced” from China. Tibet is their homeland. They don’t want Han Chinese to be there because Han Chinese moved over there by force but didn’t bring prosperity and freedom to Tibet. Instead it brings dictatorship, oppression, and death. </p>

<p>Please imagine whether you would like if a big monster forced to move into your home and destroyed your freedom to have your own way of living by telling you how to live your own life everyday.</p>

[jasmincn]

<p>I assume you go to college in USA. Let’s talk about the Chinese military truck. You actually think a country’s military force is built to guard against its own people? When people have different opinions and want to express, they shall have the right to protest. The military truck by all means shouldn’t be there at all! The whole point about the protesting against Chinese communist government is to gain freedom from dictatorship. “Ethnic cleasing”? Don’t even go there. No wonder it’s said Han Chinese look down upon Tibetans and feel they are more superior than Tibetans because Tibetans are poor and don’t live in the same way as Han Chinese do. Han Chinese probably have fancier and more modern life than Tibetans. So What!? Tibetans want to live their life in their own way. They don’t want to be part of China. Why would China want to insist in staying “married” to Tibet? That’s just stupid!</p>

[jasmincn]

<p>That’s a very good question. I believe it’s because of Han Chinese’s face that makes it very difficult for them to leave. If they leave they lose their face.</p>

[jasmincn]

<p>You got all these propaganda from the chitcoms. I assume you have relatives in China. You may try to ask them to come to this website and see it’s possible for them to get here. I bet they can’t! Although our media in USA have their own agenda, at least they are privately owned. In China everything is censored and controlled by the government. Your knowledge about China is only limited to what you get from the chitcom’s propaganda and you don’t even know. You may try to go to [Latest</a> Articles](<a href=“http://www.freerepublic.com%5DLatest”>http://www.freerepublic.com) and have your knowledge and logics straightened. I am so sad that so many Chinese people have been brainwashed but don’t even know.</p>