Very "peaceful" tibetan "protest" in China

[k_amp_s]

<p>

I can’t believe CNN can say that protest were “peaceful” when you can see rioters beating innocent chinese bystanders in their OWN video! Setting fire on shops and beating ppl with sticks!</p>

<p>I just hope CNN and other western media can REALLY cover stories with UNBIASED perspective.</p>

<p>if the chinese police arrest INNOCENT & UNARMED ppl that is definitely wrong. </p>

<p>But if the “protesters” are beating up other innocent people just because they are chinese, that is called RACISM, and when it is also violent that is the worst!

</p>

<p>While CNN’s coverage has been biased and sloppy to say the least, other media outlets such as the LA and NY Times have written about how Tibetans rioters have killed innocent ethnic Han civilians, as well as how PRC troops and police have beaten protesters who have been non-violent.</p>

<p>While a good portion of the coverage in the US has been biased (btw, it not really racism since the Tibetans and Han Chinese are both Asian), it pales in comparison to the bias shown China by the PRC-controlled media.</p>

<p>Where’s the outrage about that?</p>

<p>

Everyone has a reason to be ****ed. If that was the case, shouldn’t Native Americans be rioting and looting all across America too? I mean we did kind of exterminate their peoples and destroy their way of life and round them up and make them live on reservations once. And what about Chicanos living in Texas… America did basically just annex Texas from Mexico and then treat the people who were already living there like 2nd class citizens (see the vigilante reprisals and random executions of Mexican-Americans in the Gregorio Cortez affair). Everyone’s got a beef about something.

</p>

<p>Not really the right analogy.</p>

<p>The Tibet situation is more akin to that of Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. than that of native Americans in the US (which is more akin to that of the indigenous Taiwanese in Taiwan).</p>

<p>As for the American SW once being a part of the Mexican Empire – you have to remember that they both were former colonies of European powers that eventually gained their independence.</p>

<p>

I think the reason why China insists on keeping Tibet, just like Taiwan, is part of China’s natural response to territorial integrity and national soveriegnty. Traditionally in Chinese history, those who broke off homeland territories were often harshly criticized and ridiculed, and China’s current government certainly does not want to leave that kind of reputation in Chinese history books for future generations. When Taiwan broke away from China in 1644, the Qing dynasty took years of planning to eventually re-unite with the island by force.

</p>

<p>The problem w/ that argument is that the Qing Dynasty was a MANCHU dynasty ruling a MANCHU empire. You remember the Manchu? The same people that Han Chinese nationalists referred to as “barbaric, foreign usurpers” in order to justify their [often violent] uprising last century.</p>

<p>Up until the last Han Chinese Dynasty (Ming), Tibet was NEVER included as part of China in imperial maps (neither was Taiwan, btw).</p>

<p>

There are 56 ethnic groups in China, and Zang people is a member of them. I am really shocked that in a program of National Geography said that Chinese invaded Tibet in 1953, as Tibet IS one part of China even before Qing Dynasty.

</p>

<p>Totally FALSE.</p>

<p>

The reason Tibetans protest is they don’t want to be part of communism and China. They want to get “divorced” from China. Tibet is their homeland. They don’t want Han Chinese to be there because Han Chinese moved over there by force but didn’t bring prosperity and freedom to Tibet. Instead it brings dictatorship, oppression, and death.

</p>

<p>Same reason why the Mongolians (in Mongolia) aren’t exactly eager to become a part of the PRC again.</p>

<p>And while I wouldn’t paint all or even the majority of Han Chinese as blind, reactive ubernationalists - unfortunately, due to the propaganda put forth by the PRC (which has stoked nationalism as a means of gaining support for their rule - much like Putin has done w/ Russia and Bush/Cheney to a lesser extent has done here in the US), attitudes/actions like this have become more and more common.</p>

<p>**April 17, 2008
Chinese Student in U.S. Is Caught in Confrontation
By SHAILA DEWAN</p>

<p>DURHAM, N.C. —</p>

<p>Ms. Wang, who had friends on both sides, tried to get the two groups to talk, participants said. She began traversing what she called “the middle ground,” asking the groups’ leaders to meet and making bargains. She said she agreed to write “Free Tibet, Save Tibet” on one student’s back only if he would speak with pro-Chinese demonstrators. She pleaded and lectured. In one photo, she is walking toward a phalanx of Chinese flags and banners, her arms overhead in a “timeout” T.</p>

<p>The next day, a photo appeared on an Internet forum for Chinese students with a photo of Ms. Wang and the words “traitor to your country” emblazoned in Chinese across her forehead. Ms. Wang’s Chinese name, identification number and contact information were posted, along with directions to her parents’ apartment in Qingdao, a Chinese port city. </p>

<p>Salted with ugly rumors and manipulated photographs, the story of the young woman who was said to have taken sides with Tibet spread through China’s most popular Web sites, at each stop generating hundreds or thousands of raging, derogatory posts, some even suggesting that Ms. Wang — a slight, rosy 20-year-old — be burned in oil. Someone posted a photo of what was purported to be a bucket of feces emptied on the doorstep of her parents, who had gone into hiding. </p>

<p>“If you return to China, your dead corpse will be chopped into 10,000 pieces,” one person wrote in an e-mail message to Ms. Wang. “Call the human flesh search engines!” another threatened, using an Internet phrase that implies physical, as opposed to virtual, action.</p>

<p>In an interview Wednesday, Ms. Wang said she had been needlessly vilified.
“If traitors are people who want to harm China, then I’m not part of it,” she said. “Those people who attack me so severely were the ones who hurt China’s image even more.”**</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/17student.html?_r=1&ref=asia&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/17student.html?_r=1&ref=asia&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Even on American sites (such as the WashPost.com or LATimes.com), such sentiments have come to the forefront.</p>

[anon43256521]

<p>see kids? nationalism is healthy!</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>Oh great, do we have to have this talk all over again?</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>and by the way k&s: as a native Chinese, I often view the Manchurians as a part of our Chinese Civilization. I don’t really see the need to highlight the difference between the Manchurians and the “Chinese,” as technically, Manchuria culture is one of the 56 ethnicities that make up China as a whole. When we refer to the Qing Dynasty, we still refer to it as “China.” We simply don’t see the need to magnify our ethnic and racial differences, as that would only result in conflict, hostility, and the break up of our civilization. I’m not sure what kind of China you would like to see? And no offense, most ordinary Chinese don’t really care what you have to judge about “our” 5000-year-old civilization.</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>As for your article, you are right in pointing out the overt nationalism in China nowadays. Indeed, that is one of the many challenges that our country has to face and come to terms with. I personally don’t support such savage display of radical nationalism, and I hope that Chinese citizens of the next generation can gradually understand and view the world with rationality, restraint, and humility, three traditional Chinese values that we take great pride in. I send my deep sympathy to Ms. Wang.</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>

and by the way k&s: as a native Chinese, I often view the Manchurians as a part of our Chinese Civilization. I don’t really see the need to highlight the difference between the Manchurians and the “Chinese,” as technically, Manchuria culture is one of the 56 ethnicities that make up China as a whole.

</p>

<p>How CONVENIENT - Han Chinese Nationalists certainly didn’t think so during the early 1900s.</p>

[jasmincn]

<p>JIMMY@KILLARNEY, you wrote down almost the exact extracts from CCP articles everywhere in this thread! I read those articles a lot of times before. I will tell you how later. </p>

<p>My fianc</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>It’s not a matter of whether or not there should be freedom, democracy or not in China. At the current moment, it’s a matter of PRACTICALITY! Yes, it’s very easy to sit in America and say that China must have democracy and freedom immediately. Right now, there are still millions of people unable to find jobs, unable to support their family, unable to receive adequate health care, and unable to find enough money to acquire the most basic necessities of life. </p>

<p>Such enlightenment ideas are great and their meaning universal. Yet, implementing them in the real world is another matter. How long did it take for England and France to establish a truly functional democratic system? Hundreds of years of evolution. Evolution. Currently in China, we are not interested in REVOLUTION, since we are fed up with the potential chaos and economic depression it could bring. We’ve had the 1911 revolution, the 1949 revolution, the cultural revolution all in the last century. Each of them claimed millions of lives and uncountable devestation. When we consider the implementation of such ideas as “freedom” or “democracy,” we MUST proceed with caution and care. Such massive changes in the very structure of the nation can cause very disastrous consequences if taken recklessly, like Iraq and the former USSR. </p>

<p>Our principle of development and reform is based on the basis of social, economic, and political stability. We don’t want to make massive changes, but rather miniscule, subtle changes step by step over a gradual period of time. At the same time, we also want to educate our citizens about modern democratic values, like the rule of law, the rights of the citizen, supremacy of the constitution, and the importance of proper legislative process. </p>

<p>Some of you accuse me of ignoring the democratic rights and freedoms and the plight of my fellow citizens at home. You misunderstood me. I also have a dream that one day my fellow citizens could live harmoniously under a state of peace, properity and freedom. I have a dream that one day every Chinese child will be able receive the best public education and equal opportunities to excel beyond their potential. I have a dream that one day senior citizens like my grandmother in China could retire and enjoy life without economic or social burdens. I have a dream that one day, every Chinese citizen has the right to enthusiastically participate in their civil society and public political process. I have a dream that one day our mountains would be once again covered in green, streams crystal clear, and oceans and lakes a habitable home for all living species. And guess what, these dreams are already on their way to becoming a reality for many, step by step.</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>The rise of every nation has its own unique methodology behind its success. We Chinese simply would like to ask friends from around the world for their understanding of our present situation and historical experiences, and give us a little more time to explore, develop, and prosper. We also accept constructive suggestions and criticisms from people around the world. I acknowledge that there are numerous controversy concerning the rise of our nation on the global stage. This may be the cause of years of misunderstanding or mistrust or simply the lack of communication, and we as a nation are willing to help bridge this gap with our warm hospitality and readiness for dialogue and friendship. </p>

<p>I’m just a simple Chinese, but also a global citizen who’s trying to bring us together on the basis of friendship and mutual cooperation. I may not know much about world politics, elevated ideals, holy revolutions, or great moral standards, but I do know one little thing, and that is friendship, our global friendship. After all, life is a game of friendship, that’s what makes it worth cherishing, worth living. Friendship is what makes this cold, hostile world so intimate, so home-sweet-home.</p>

<p>I welcome you. We welcome you. China welcomes you. Do you?</p>

[butterbattle]

<p>

I may not know much about world politics, elevated ideals, holy revolutions, or great moral standards, but I do know one little thing, and that is friendship, our global friendship.

</p>

<p>Yeah, let’s be friends. :)</p>

<p>

“If you return to China, your dead corpse will be chopped into 10,000 pieces,”

In any full-scale war with America, China will cease to exist literally. War is hell, but sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omellette.

</p>

<p>Yucca’s probably one of those people that wanted Ms. Wang to be burned in oil. After all, she’s a traitor. ;)</p>

[k_amp_s]

<p>The situation of Tibet is most akin to that of Ukraine and Georgia.</p>

<p>Both were once part of the Mongol Empire, the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union.</p>

<p>The Ukrainians and Georgians don’t exactly seem to be in a hurry to be “unified” w/ Russia any time soon.</p>

<p>

I’m just a simple Chinese, but also a global citizen who’s trying to bring us together on the basis of friendship and mutual cooperation.

</p>

<p>And the Tibetans are just “simple Tibetans” and NOT Chinese.</p>

[JIMMY_KILLARNEY]

<p>China is not Europe. We have a different history, starkly different values, and very unparallel cultures. Stop comparing us with Europe, unless you would like to see our civilization divided into 56 warring states. Do your Chinese history homework before you make another reckless, ignorant comment. I appreciate your input and interest in this subject matter!</p>

[pharmakeus01]

<p>hahahaha, jimmy is getting more and more nationalistic
Very interesting, very interesting.</p>

<p>Um, Chinese “zhong hua ming zu” is not “han zu” or people of Han. It’s the descendants of the Yellow Emperor and Yellow River.. um.. and yeah, tibetans and chinese are both the descendants of the Yellow Emperor and Yellow River. There is an ideological differences between how the westerners see Tibet and how Chinese see Tibet. </p>

<p>China is like the Roman Empire. While European states is the result of barbarian invasions and 500 years of warfares. No man after Hitler have tried to unify the entire Europe. But interestingly enough, we do see Europe is becoming a multi-national state. </p>

<p>I recommend everyone to see the movie Kekexili, a movie about Tibetans.
It’s so good.</p>