<p>I can’t see that parts.If there’s any,please point out.
I’m rational all the time.</p>
<p>If you have any question,you can ask.
But you don’t have,right?</p>
<p>Yucca: If there was a stereotypical Communist way of thinking, then your mentality would fit that perfectly.</p>
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</p>
<p>Better censored? One opinion is less biased? If the news is better censored, that makes it less biased!!! ROFL. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. OH MY GOD. STOP IT, YOUR KILLING ME HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA</p>
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</p>
<p>Would all people who actually value human rights please observe that he just put ‘killing’ and ‘insulting’ right next to each other as if they were one and the same?</p>
<p>I don’t know how or where you got the idea that in the U.S, we are free to murder people left and right, but it’s not true. Okay? You must have watched videos of Tianmen Square and thought that was America or something.</p>
<p>See, it just so happens, that in the U.S, we are more lenient with insults than with murders. Weird, huh? Yep, we have a little thing called freedom of speech, where we are actually allowed to criticize our government without fear of retaliation! Yes, I know; it shocks and disgusts you, but we do horrible things like that in America. </p>
<p>I have question for you Yucca. You keep implying that I’m betraying my country and saying that you would never betray your country. My question is, What counts as betraying you country? What standards do you use to determine that a Chinese Citizen has committed…treason?</p>
<ul>
<li>Insulting the CCP?</li>
<li>Having an opinion that difers from the government?</li>
<li>Protesting?</li>
<li>Petitioning?</li>
<li>Not conforming in any way?</li>
</ul>
<p>Yucca believes that a vast international conspiracy linking all non-Chinese media networks, NGO’s, human rights advocacy groups, the UN, the prime minister of Australia, the Red Cross, Amnesty International, the blogosphere, the internet and anybody who has ever criticized China is a better explanation for reports of widespread human rights abuses by the Chinese government than those existing itself. </p>
<p>Yucca also believes that one’s proximity to a country is directly correlated to the accuracy of one’s opinions on that country; people in China are necessarily better-informed due to their physical location within the country.</p>
<p>As I sad, completely nuts.</p>
<p>[url="<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ"]whoop[/url">http://youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ"]whoop[/url</a>]</p>
<p>buttlebattle, i’m not sure if you’ve ever lived in China or not, but what yucca said does make some sense. Most people I know who are supporting the communist government in China have legitimate reasons to do so. In the past 30 years, because of the economic reforms by the communists, our real living standards have increased significantly. Real GDP per capita has jumped from less than $500 USD in the 1980s to more than $3000 USD today (In the major cities, average household income has already surpassed $10,000 USD). In a country of 1.4 billion people, that’s alot to thank for. Every year when I visit China, I see with my own eyes how their lives have improved. My aunt just purchased her first car last year, while my uncle bought a nicer imported car because of lowered tariffs. My grandmother, who used to complain alot about her financial difficulties, finally got a boost in her government pension funds last year. Now she receives $2800 RMB per month from the social welfare system, which is already a substantial income for a retired lady. All of these solid improvements in people’s livelihood and real living standards will naturally compel anybody to embrace their government policies and be patriotic.</p>
<p>By the way jack4640, we do know the Tiananmen Affair in much more detail than most outsiders, since my parents and family members were actually involved in the protests that year as well. My aunt also lived right down the Chang’An Road a few blocks from Tiananmen square at the time, so she was able to see what was going on most of the time. That video image you found on Youtube is only a limited perspective of the entire movement in 1989’s China. My aunt in Beijing said that at the time, most ordinary residents of Beijing agreed that the government must act swiftly to restore law and order. In the 2 months leading up to June 4, Beijing was almost in a complete state of chaos. Most shops and markets were closed because they were afraid of looters roaming the streets. At the same time, my cousin, who was in high school at the time, also told me that his school was shut down for more than a month because all the teachers and some students had gone to “establish democracy.” This chaotic state in all major cities throughout China lasted for more than 2 months, and made things extremely difficult for ordinary citizens like us who still wanted to make ends meet in our daily lives. In the so-called “peaceful protests” in beijing at the time, most people involved were unemployed peasants and street thugs who were causing a lot of trouble for the normal citizens’ safety and security. And as someone who grew up in China, I strongly support the student protesters’ cause on Tiananmen Square in 1989. However, at the same time, I strongly disagree with the method under which they planned to implement their belief. Most people in the 1980s China actually cared less about democracy or politics, and were much more concerned about filling up their bellies and making a little money after the new economic reforms under Deng Xiaoping’s reformist government. Democracy will eventually and gradually come to Chinese society, on the basis of a strong and robust capitalist economy and a well-informed, well-educated, and well-housed, nourished citizenry.</p>
<p>jack4640,I’m just here to tell you one thing.</p>
<p>You are just an ignorant outsider who knows nothing.
That’s all.</p>
<p>And nobody in China cares about your **** like human rights.</p>
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</p>
<p>quoting this for posterity</p>
<p>^ Simply reposting what Yucca states is an effective argument in itself.</p>
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</p>
<p>Yeah, a tiny bit of it, but most of it is just skewered logic and communist rhetoric. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been writing satire the entire thread. </p>
<p>According to him: </p>
<p>1) Censorship creates less bias.
2) The closer you are to something, in distance, the more you know about it.
3) In China, you can’t kill a person, but in the U.S, it’s okay because that means they are free.
4) He’s never met a single Chinese person that praises the government.
5) He instantly ignores any source of information as soon as he has recognized it as ‘Western.’
6) He says communism is simply a political term. Aisgzdavinci says it’s a purely economic term. And they’re on the same side of the debate! I tried to say that communism has relevance in both categories and they both attacked my position.
7) The name ‘Zhong Guo’ means that China doesn’t want to be radical.
8) “Communist won’t be evil or some simply because what you believe.” It’s not necessarily evil, Yucca, it’s just inherently flawed.
9) He thinks a taser with 100,000 volts is impossible. I mocked him based on those numbers. Aisgzdavinci attacks me because he actually thinks I believe that tasers with 100,000 volts are impossible. Even though I was obviously quoting Yucca at the time.</p>
<p>10) Then, Aisgzdavinci tries to emphasize my arrogance simply by where I live, as if my location has anything to do with how informed I am about the situation. Sound familiar? Just for the record, I live in Washington STATE, not Washington D.C……■■■■■■■■■.</p>
<p>11) “Commies never tell people that Westerners hate China”
12) The Chinese haven’t been hurt by their government and nobody has complained. </p>
<p>(Except millions and millions of people!)</p>
<p>13) When we accuse China of trespassing on human rights, we’re just looking for an excuse to bash China.
14) In fact, everything is an excuse to bash China. Everyone hates China. Everything is used as tool against China, including Tibetans, ducks, Chinese people, celery, Dalai Llama, Capitalism, human rights, religion, temperpedic mattresses, cell phones, automobiles, etc.
15) If you criticize the government, you are a traitor to your country.
16) The Chinese government is identical to the government in Taiwan.
17) “Chinese will never think of attacking others countries until invaded or insulted seriously.”</p>
<p>Not including Tibet. What about Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc? See that? They will attack another country when they are “insulted seriously.” </p>
<p>18) Sports news is unbiased. Lol. He doesn’t play sports.
19) “When it comes to human rights abuse. I haven’t seen any evidence support it,”</p>
<p>Then you will appreciate this video. [link=”[Tiananmen]YouTube</a> - Tiananmen Square Massacre](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGJoaHr2QdM&NR=1”]Tiananmen]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGJoaHr2QdM&NR=1”) Square Massacre[/link]</p>
<p>20) Saudi Arabia does not have oil.
21) “Whether Chinese can speak freely basically has nothing to do with Americans.Do you need to use chinese chat room(even I hardly use it)”
22) “Actually,not all of the free tibet protestors are professionals. Some of them are simply hired by free tibet organization.” If they get hired, then they are not professionals. If they are simply there by themselves, then they are professionals.</p>
<p>I’ve never heard the phrase ‘professional protestor’ before. </p>
<p>Sigh, I could go on forever with this…and I kind of am going on forever….</p>
<p>Perhaps we should follow Jack’s example and just start throwing humorous insults at each other. It doesn’t look like this discussion is making any progress. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Exactly. My grandmother said that when she was little, they never had enough food to eat; now, everyday is like the Spring Festival. </p>
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</p>
<p>Agreed.</p>
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</p>
<p>No,I never implied that you betrayed your country.
Your country is United States.
You are very very loyal to you country. China is hated by your country. You should hate China,it’s what you are supposed to be.</p>
<p>I don’t care whether you are american or not.</p>
<p>But nobody really treats you as chinese in China. When will you visit China next time?</p>
<p>Welcome to China! Visitor! </p>
<p>By the way,you can dislike community party. Most people do not belong to community party.Personally,I don’t love it or hate it. But territory is so important for chinese people, every chinese person wants to protect our own territory.If someone is working hard to fight against our people,the person betrays our country.Anyway,you even don’t have a chance to do so.</p>
<p>
Whatever.</p>
<p>一切反动势力都是纸老虎。</p>
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</p>
<p>Well, then, you should hate human rights, it’s what you are supposed to be.
Oh, wait, you already do!</p>
<p>
</p>
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</p>
<p>Yes, because even though I’m 100% Chinese and lived there for almost a decade, every person that I pass by on the street can automatically tell that I’m an American citizen just by looking at me.</p>
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</p>
<p>What counts as “working hard to fight against our people?” Can they be punished for it? How?</p>
<p>You should visit this website [Latest</a> Articles](<a href=“http://www.freerepublic.com%5DLatest”>http://www.freerepublic.com). Go to the China section and see how many traitors you can find. You might need a paper and pencil to keep count. And, remember to report every single one of them to the Chinese government. :)</p>
<p>
No,I didn’t say this is true. I just try to make up an example that doesn’t exist in real world to show that the positive side of censorship or control,regulation.
Just assumption.</p>
<p>4) He’s never met a single Chinese person that praises the government.
Not really. Nobody always praises the government(just like somebody mentioned,his relative praise the government all the time). When the government does something good,people may praise it.When the government does something bad,people criticize it.To sum up,we don’t care what the government is,we only care what the government does at a certain point.</p>
<p>
This is very true,and verified by history.</p>
<p>
Well,am I expected to be your history teacher?
The government in taiwan is Republic of China and the government in mainland China is People’s republic of China.
Republic of China represents the whole China from 1912 to 1949.</p>
<p>
That’s true.</p>
<p>
Yes,I know.That’s why I take an example about california and seattle,Washington.</p>
<p>
This is what I said.It’s true.
I don’t like chatroom.</p>
<p>
Now,you know it.</p>
<p>
I didn’t say it or mean it.
You are just trying to distort what I said.</p>
<p>
Oh,no.
I use craigslist a lot for used cars. There are lots of useful information,as well as tons of scams(do you believe you can get a 2003 camry with 50k miles at the cost of 2000 dollars?).I use expedia for air tickets,hotels and car rental. And what else?hmmmm,let’s me think. Quite a lot,you know ebay?</p>
<p>Yes, I know that you think the things you posted are true. That’s why it’s so pathetic.</p>
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</p>
<p>What the ****? I’m talking about news. You knew what I meant. No, wait…oh, wow, you didn’t know what I meant.</p>
<p>
</p>
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</p>
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</p>
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</p>
<p>ten characters</p>
<p>
I am not dictionary.
Some people get punished by law while others are not. But you will be hated by chinese people.</p>
<p>
No offense. I can’t give credits to the website.And I hope you can recommend me a website in Chinese.Just because I prefer reading chinese characters.</p>
<p>
If you have lived in China for another 5 years,I think you may know something about China.
Just curious,how did they know you are U.S citizen instead of Canada? </p>
<p>
What?</p>
<p>
You are right…I don’t play sports.I thought sports news should be unbiased since nobody’s political position is involved.
Maybe they are also biased?
Now,I see. Even Sports news are biased,to say nothing of political news.</p>
<p>/******************************************************/
Okay,I have tried to answer your questions.</p>
<p>I know I can’t convince you.
I just have some interesting questions to ask you,just curious.
Do you hope that China can be a better,stronger,richer country which will not be bullied,invaded by other countries?
Do you want Chinese’s homeland to be attacked and occupied by U.S just like<br>
Iraq?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, I know that you think the things you posted are true. That’s why it’s so pathetic.</p>
<p>
Sorry,I misunderstood you.
Local news is more important and reliable.What is happening in the surrounding community is always more important than what is happening in Africa.
I don’t care human rights in Africa,nor can I verify it.I just care about the crime rate in the community.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I was being sarcastic again. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, definitely. </p>
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</p>
<p>No, but that wouldn’t happen anyways. China and U.S. rely on each other too much economically to consider war now. </p>
<p>Plus, attacking China would not be the same as attacking Iraq. Both countries have large, powerful, organized militaries (China’s army is humongous), tanks, planes, ships, nuclear weapons, etc. They are two of the most powerful countries in the world. I don’t think the U.S. has the balls to even think about that.</p>
<p>I mean, even if they did attack China, I don’t think the U.S. would really be able to bully China. Alliances with other countries would drag more players into the game. You could probably end up with a WWIII scenario. </p>
<p>Sorry, but if the U.S. decides to attack China, I’m not going to worry about China. I’m going to worry about myself and go hide in a bunker before all the bombs start coming down.</p>
<p>I never really supported the invasion of Iraq. I am still unsure of what to believe on that issue.</p>
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</p>
<p>lol. hahaha. Okay, touche.</p>
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</p>
<p>It’s definitely more reliable, but I don’t think it’s more important. Oh, you mean it’s more important to the people in the community? Because it has a larger impact on the community. Okay, I think I understand that.</p>
<p>By the way,I just want to remind you one thing. I know you don’t trust me in any way.But I still want to tell you,in case someday you can realize.</p>
<p>I can feel that you are just a innocent student,not a politician.</p>
<p>The rule of thumb in political world is:
Everyone works for its own benefits. And every groups work for its own benefits.</p>
<p>That’s all.Don’t believe anything like democratic,freedom,communist,human rights,or whatever.Westerners try to make people believe chinese youths are brainwashed by communists. This is not true.We are simply REALISTIC! We won’t refuse anything good,like ipod,technology,or hot blonde woman.There’s no need to follow Western culture or communist.</p>
<p>Just think about one question,how to maximize my own benefits,our benefits?
This is the key.</p>
<p>So,when you analyze anything,just think about who will benefit.It’s all about benefits.Any government,just works for its own benefits,anything else is simply excuse.I’m not a hypothetical person who pretends to care about human rights in another country.</p>
<p>That’s why I don’t even bother to verify whether a government has violated human rights. Who cares others? A lot of African people are starving,but peope in the United states still waste food.The average income per capita there in Africa is around one dollar.Some individuals are nice enough to care about others,so they donate and help people there(anyway,Africa will only become worse,not better,this is real world).U.S government never really did anything helpful there.It’s a waste of money(and the money is from tax payers)</p>
<p>Even if a government violates human rights. Does it work to protest?
The answer is always no. Think about it,how many countries don’t want U.S to invade Iraq? But U.S still did invade Iraq simply because U.S is the superpower who can bully any country.Nobody can stop it.
Even if China really violates human rights,does it work to protest? The answer is also no. </p>
<p>Iraq war is bascially a failure for U.S. Not because U.S violates human rights in Iraq.The reason is,U.S pays too much and gets too little. This is not a good deal.If U.S can spend less than 1 million dollars in Iraq and steals their oil. I believe U.S had made a right decision,I’d say"congratulations".</p>