Very preliminary list - any more we should consider? (Likely math major, finishing sophomore year)

College Search & Selection
21

I suppose for overly hot weather WashU is going to be out, although my kid claimed the St. Louis weather wasn’t too bad this year.

I have heard that the Physics program isn’t that diverse. There is currently only one female professor on the tenure track and there was a professor in the department that made sexist and homophobic comments to the local papers.

Math is hit or miss too at WashU. Some classes are taught well, but the introductory Calculus classes are definitely taught differently from the high school norm. No more plug and chug, but more of using concepts and proofs. Calculus 3 (Multivariable Calculus) is more straightforward.

CompSci is up and coming at WashU but the Engineering department is obviously not the main focus of the school.

WashU is pretty supportive of gender identity, even though Missouri is a red state. St. Louis is liberal compared to the rest of the state, which isn’t really saying that much for somebody from California.

For CompSci, UIUC and UT-Austin are good, but the size of the schools might not work out. And both are not known for nice weather. Johns Hopkins is supposed to be good in math, but Baltimore is supposed to get really nasty weather wise with its humidity.

22

With respect to colleges that have since been mentioned, Grinnell and UR also appear in the PR sampling referenced up-thread (reply #12).

23

@washugrad

You have identified a lot of great schools, many of which our family visited when my D17 was selecting a college. I would focus on identifying some additional solid matches and safeties as many you list (Brown, Carleton, Tufts, Wash U, Harvey Mudd, Wesleyan, and U Chicago, UC Berkeley) are reaches for everybody. All of the UC’s also are becoming increasingly competitive. And some other recommendations upthread - Northwestern, Vassar, Bowdoin, Hamilton, are also reaches. I’m not saying don’t try for some of them. Just that a balanced list is a good thing.

UW (out of state), Macalester, Oberlin, Boston U, and Colorado College are probably high match/low reach with a 3.7/3.8 unweighted. Case Western is a great school but is increasingly competitive and admissions are very unpredictable there - demonstrated interest is very important.

I can’t speak to admissions/math programs for the others on your list.

I would recommend that your daughter keep an open mind about St. Olaf. My D was similarly unenthusiastic (she ended up at Oberlin and loves it) but her impression improved after our campus visit and its math department is excellent. It would also likely be a match for your child and offers good merit. If you check out Carleton and Mac, it is worth looking at St. Olaf.

UW does have limited merit aid for OOS students (about 8K last time I checked)

If you don’t know about them, you might want to look at the WUE schools (Western Undergraduate Exchange), which offer reduced OOS tuition for residents of Western states. Some well-ranked flagships are not on the list (UW) or have limits with respect to choice of major, but there are many good choices there.

If she gets National Merit, state schools with honors programs would also be worth investigating for both merit scholarships and honors programs. ASU’s Barrett Honors College attracts a lot of students from surrounding states.

As you’ll be visiting BU, Tufts, and Brown this summer, you might want to add Brandeis to the list. I also agree that U of Rochester might be a great option.

Finally, would she be open to women’s colleges? Smith, Mount Holyoke, and Bryn Mawr might be worth a look, if they fall within the bounds of her gender identity exploration.

Good luck and have fun!

24

Rice would have very hot and humid weather at the beginning of the school year. It usually cools off by October and is nice for the rest of the school year. Otherwise, it might be a good fit. Rice has an inclusive residential college system vs Greek life. It might be worth a look.

25

I was also going to point out that the weather at Rice during the actual school year is wonderful. Think fall all year long. It can’t be understated how great it is to be able to sit outside in February rather then be huddled up in your room then dashing through the frozen north to class. I think it makes rice more social because everyone lingers on the campus grounds. Vassar is also nice: non preppy non fraternity . People do go into NY regularly. Also throw Haverford into the mix. Not as small as it sounds since Haverford and Bryn Mahr are basically one school and has that non fraternity vibe.

26

@merc81 Do you have a link for that article? Or is it in a book? I tried googling but am just getting the Princeton Review list of good math schools… all 993 of them.

27

Thank you all for your suggestions! We have relatives in way outer suburban Houston so maybe we’ll go ahead and tour Rice next time we visit, although I really can’t see this kid opting to live in Houston. As for the New England and Midwestern schools, it’s hard living this far away and not really having the time to visit all of them ahead of time so trying to narrow down just by reading/ websites. I was kind of thinking we’d limit to looking at schools that are at least within about an hour’s drive of a major airport, but I’m caving on that now. My oldest was adamant about staying on the west coast so that really narrowed everything way down early on.

28

Both Oberlin and Rice have separate admission for their music program (conservatory) and academic programs?

29

From @Hamurtle: "I suppose for overly hot weather WashU is going to be out, although my kid claimed the St. Louis weather wasn’t too bad this year.

I have heard that the Physics program isn’t that diverse. There is currently only one female professor on the tenure track and there was a professor in the department that made sexist and homophobic comments to the local papers.

Math is hit or miss too at WashU. Some classes are taught well, but the introductory Calculus classes are definitely taught differently from the high school norm. No more plug and chug, but more of using concepts and proofs. Calculus 3 (Multivariable Calculus) is more straightforward."

I remember back when I was at WashU, in the fall the weather pattern was - day 1: muggy and gross; day 2: rainstorm; day 3: nice. Repeat for 2 months. I stayed there over the summer between junior and senior year and you’d work up a sweat walking from the apartment to the car. And then in the spring there’d be the one perfect day where it was ‘too nice to work’ and everyone would skip class in the afternoon and sit outside. And then I moved to Berkeley for grad school and every day the first 2 weeks was ‘too nice to work’ and then I realized I’d have to work when it was nice out and also that I’d found my climate ;-). I’m still in the Bay Area. My kids all think it’s too hot when it’s over 80, although my oldest after 3 years in Oregon is finally appreciating sunny days more than she used to.

Interesting about the physics faculty… that was my major, back in the late 80s. It wasn’t diverse at all back then but at least most of the profs were supportive of women majors. Too bad they haven’t improved. I actually started as a dual math/physics major and dropped the math when I hit calc-with-proofs, although that was a 400-level class, not intro.

30

“Both Oberlin and Rice have separate admission for their music program (conservatory) and academic programs?”

I know that’s true about Oberlin, not sure about Rice. But in fact this is one hesitation with Oberlin… wondering how much access there is to being in choir if you aren’t in the conservatory.

31

@washugrad we’re in the Bay Area too. And for some reason St. Louis weather didn’t faze my son in the slightest. And he claims that the weather pattern you just described can be seen in a single day.

Boston is another place where the weather is pretty miserable. My son’s friend went to Northeastern and definitively wasn’t expecting the nasty snowstorms this year. And summers are pretty hot.

32

The weather in the Bay Area is too good. Yet people argue with me why they should move out here and pay $3500 a month for rent. The weather was so good this week that I went cherry picking in Brentwood and it was barely in the 70s.

There’s nothing like staying at home. Have your middle one stay close by. Just like my kid did after spending countless hours touring the country on school visits. Go Bears!

33

@washugrad At Oberin there is an A&S orchestra for non-conservatory folks - there are youtube videos if you want to assess the quality. I’m not sure, however, about choir opportunities for students in the college. If you have Oberlin questions, feel free to PM me. I know of some happy Math and CS majors there. It’s a special place. Have your daughter check out the Oberlin student blogs, if she hasn’t done so already. They are searchable by theme.

34

I think airport accessibility is a factor, but not a critical factor. All selective schools have a sizeable number of students who arrive by airplane. There are shuttles, ride-shares, buses, Ubers, etc. Kids cope.

35

My D13 was a choir kid who factored choral opportunities into her college search and went to Rice thinking she would sing there, but it never happened, nor did she ever take a music class. Friends’ kids who were non-music-major instrumentalists had the same experience. The non-major ensembles seem to be logistically problematic for many students, regularly conflicting with other classes. The conservatory is top-notch and the Shepherd students are well-integrated into residential life, but musically speaking things are very separate. My d did have nonbinary and gender-fluid friends, and I’d say that aspect is fine at Rice, but it’s not a music-infused kind of place like Rochester or Lawrence.

My D17 is at Scripps which shares a music program with Mudd, Pitzer, and CMC; she has made friends from all of these schools through choir. (Pomona has some even higher-level groups that students from the other 5C’s can also audition for.) Mudd could be a wonderful choice for your kid, but merit opportunities are limited so it would probably be on the $$$ side. Seems like a potentially good fit in terms of the academic, social, and musical aspects though.

36

At the risk of harping on the weather, the following comments were made:

“Hates hot weather. we are a bit turned off by the cold weather,”

If you don’t like hot and cold weather, most of the country is pretty much out of the running, right? Midwest, northeast are out, and yes it was brutal in Chicago and Massachusetts this year, so I see what you’re saying. But if you really want moderate temperatures, it’s going to be California (50s and 60s), maybe North/South Carolina, Texas and probably Hawaii (70s and 80s) :slight_smile:

37

"At the risk of harping on the weather, the following comments were made:

“Hates hot weather. we are a bit turned off by the cold weather,”"

That was actually 2 different people. My kid doesn’t want hot. Cold is okay in theory (in practice, a week in Tahoe is the longest winter she’s experienced… lots of snow but not THAT cold and not for months on end).

38

FWIW - UC Davis is really only hot during summer when she would probably be home from school most of the time. Fall and spring is great, and winter can be rainy and foggy many days.

What is confusing to me about the list is she has large public research colleges and then very small LACs. Completely different college experience. Seems to me that one type of college is going to be a lot better fit than the other type. For example, my D20 would hate going to a college that had less undergrads than her high school of 2,000 and growing up in LA would be miserable enduring 4 years of snowy and cold weather in say Ithaca, NY. Other students would thrive in that type of environment.

39

Also, have you looked at the College of Creative Studies at UCSB? It is a small college-within-a-college, with a much different vibe from the larger university. The academics sound perfect for your kid; there are only eight majors within CCS, but four of them are math, physics, computing, and music composition. CCS students can also double-major or minor outside of CCS. https://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/about The philosophy is to encourage original work and research; it has been described as “grad school for undergrads.” There’s a separate application in addition to applying to UCSB via the UC app. Might really be worth considering even if UCSB isn’t otherwise in the running.

40

@aquapt yes - UCSB is on the list exactly for that reason.