I realize that nothing replaces a visit and that each person’s experience is unique…
but looking for a comparison of Duke vs Rice in terms of: student life.
Examples- frat culture (son isn’t sure about this), Jewish life and culture (son is Jewish and would want to be part of this), party scene, cliques, and general student well being!
Any opinions? Thanks
1 Like
Ime, Duke is a narrow-er fit than Rice. It’s a difference of degree, not kind, but I think that Rice suits a broader range of students. That may b/c the emphasis is on houses- to which everyone belongs- rather than frats.
On the narrower question of finding a Jewish community, he will be fine at either place.
3 Likes
No personal opinion (I know people who were very happy at both schools) but if it hasn’t been done already I’d suggest your child do things like:
–Read some good college guide books (ex. Fiske, Princeton Review);
– Check out Niche;
–See if the schools have their newspapers online (most do) and read them to get a better sense of campus life;
–Contact the Hillel on campus to ask any questions about Jewish life at the school.
2 Likes
We are Jewish and my daughter is finishing her junior year at Rice. We aren’t very observant and she has grown up in places with very few Jews - but she has a strong Jewish identity.
The outgoing president of Rice is Jewish and they have a nice Jewish studies department - our daughter has taken several interesting electives in Jewish studies. We met the president at her freshman orientation - and he told us that a) Rice is the only secular private school in Texas and b) they pride themselves on not having any majorities - race, religion, etc. There is a chapel but no chaplain.
Freshman year she connected with several Jewish students in her residential college (dorm) and they explored Hillel and some other options at the High Holidays. And the president had a shabbat service and dinner at his house one of the first Friday nights of her freshman year. She has gotten very involved with other extra curricular activities and not done many Jewish activities.
We are on the Rice/Houston Chabad mailing list - and get Shmurah matzoh every year!
3 Likes
Duke is sufficiently large and diverse for most students to find their niche, I think. I was an extremely liberal queer activist from a poor family who wanted to pursue a PhD and teach, and I fit in just fine.
The Jewish community is fairly sizable and lively. I’m not religious, but I enjoyed going with my Jewish friends to Shabbat services and dinner on Friday nights nonetheless, mostly for the great sense of community. Additionally, Duke’s religion department has always been exceptionally strong, particularly for Jewish and biblical studies. (The grad-only divinity school is separate, though also top-notch.)
I wouldn’t be disappointed if Duke eliminated Greek life entirely, but some frats are noticeably more chill than others, and I’m sure he can find one with a good vibe if it’s something that interests him.
2 Likes
Frats are not in Duke housing anymore; sororities never were. My D is a freshman and non-greek, most of her friends are not greek, but she goes to frat parties(just not during rush) whenever she wants. The QuadEx residential housing system is new and is meant to resemble other top-tier schools that have non-greek , inclusive housing. Greek is less than a third of students now, based on freshmen. It is there if you want it, not a huge part of social life if you don’t want it. There is a large Jewish presence! She attended Seder dinner with some of her Jewish and non-jewish friends–it is all very inclusive (we are not Jewish, we are Catholic–but it was very inclusive back in the 90s when I attended and I learned a great deal about Jewish life in my time there). Let’s be honest–both schools have a high concentration of smart, nerdy students! Ours said a month into school that she finally felt like she fit in and could be herself, for the first time.
6 Likes
From my kids experience at Duke there are 2 sides to Jewish life. One a Hillel going crowd that’s nice but somewhat on the nerdier side and a very Greek oriented side that often includes some of the wealthiest kids on campus. It’s not that the Greek side never goes to Hillel or that the Hillel regulars never go to a frat party…but there was definitely a split in crowds. A few kids may cross over more.
1 Like
But, wasn’t the Greek system disbanded?
No. A bunch of fraternities voluntarily disaffiliated from the university and moved off campus because they were unhappy with revised policies. But they still exist and they are still full of Duke students. And there are still some left on campus.
2 Likes
Oh, I see, with the new residential college system it sounds awfully inconvenient to be going off campus for these things. Sounds like the demise has begun?
I hope so.
1 Like
Per the most recent CDS, 29% of undergraduate males and an eye-popping 42% of undergraduate females at Duke are members of a fraternity/sorority, so regardless of the trend they are still a significant presence, particularly in comparison to a school without Greek life.
2 Likes
Technically, that data is a year old. Everybody else has had their 2021-2022 CDS posted for a long time. Not sure why Duke doesn’t. So, it is possible that number has changed. It was in the 2020-2021 school year that the fraternities disaffiliated from the university.
1 Like
Numerous colleges have yet to post their 2021–2022 CDS, from Harvard to Northwestern to USC and a lot of others in between.
That doesn’t change the fact that it is year old data. The fact that many (majority) schools have posted 2021-2022 reports indicates that the schools that haven’t are the ones behind. Without checking all of the top 20- Princeton, Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Cornell, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Emory, Vanderbilt in the top 20 are published. (Columbia is always hard to find, so who knows). In the LAC category Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore (top 3) are all out (and the only 3 I checked). But, the important part is that 9 Duke fraternities moved off campus and disaffiliated from the university at the end of the 2020-2021 school year. Which means we need to see the 2021-2022 data to see the effect it had. One article seemed to indicate that was all of the fraternities- because it said 7 of 9 fraternities and later two more left. [A quick scan of internet seems to indicate that the move has been for the worse because now what started as an attempt at fraternity reform by the university to address problems of hazing, discrimination and bias has turned into fraternities with no rules, no regulations and no accountability.] The move happened because the university moved pledging Greek life to sophomore year rather than freshman year. According to Duke’s current website, 10% of the students are part of fraternities or sororities.
2 Likes
I have no particular inside knowledge re Duke, but in reading the website, it implies that the 10% figure includes students who are part of the officially recognized fraternities/sororities listed right below - which appear to be only 2 of the traditional IFC groups, plus the traditionally Black organizations and multicultural identity-based groups. Presumably the remainder of those 29%/42% from the previous year are members of now-unofficial organizations that exist off campus, though potentially some could have left those groups for whatever reasons. Point being, I don’t know that 10% is an accurate reflection of the impact of Greek life on the student body, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone with first-hand knowledge.
2 Likes
I didn’t even notice that those were links, good catch. 
Also don’t have any real insight into Greek life at Duke, just know that during admitted student day my D22 was told all fraternities had moved off campus, so apparently not entirely true, but close to true for traditional IFC fraternities.
One other thing to note, before most of the IFC fraternities disaffiliated with Duke, in the push to reform or disband the IFC fraternities and sororities about 400 students disaffiliated themselves with their Greek organizations. That isn’t insignificant when probably less than 2400 students were involved in all types of Greek organizations (IFC, MGC, NPHC)
1 Like
Fair point - 400 students disaffiliating does seem like a significant number. I admit to having biases here; not only is D22 heading to Rice this fall (due in part to her love for the residential college system and distaste for the concept of Greek life), but long ago I attended a college where Greek life was “off-campus” and downplayed by tour guides, administrators, etc., but in reality was the dominant social force on campus. So for purposes of prospective students trying to gauge the campus culture, I’m skeptical that shifting frats out from under the umbrella of the Duke administration will make any noticeable cultural change on campus. But I could be wrong, I’ve never spent any time on the Duke campus.
2 Likes
I worked in the HS college counselor office doing “post mortems” with alumni about college experience ( I was talking to them after their 2nd year at college). What you note was often stated by these kids. At Many colleges where the “official position” was that Greek life was small or only off campus and downplayed by admin, Greek life was THE dominant social force.
3 Likes
So, Duke is going to a Residential College system, which was part of what prompted the fraternity changes, which in turn led to the fraternity rebellion. (The other part was part of the student body protesting the greek life culture of hazing, discrimination, bias and more.) I have to read up on it more, but it seems like there may be a growing anti-fraternity sentiment on campus right now. At least in terms of the 9 that disaffiliated.
3 Likes