Vicious Cycle of College Application!

<p>runnersmom :"but don't disparage public education (and those who have been very happy with it)"</p>

<p>if you were so happy then why did you attend private college and let your children attend Chicago and WUSTL.</p>

<p>If public education is so good then why don't you let them attend public universities too.</p>

<p>I'm not pseudo and don't believe in pseudo values. If you want a big house you get that and send you children to public schools and when it comes the time of taking Student loans and Financial Aids you send your children to private college.</p>

<p>Very convenient; very very so.</p>

<p>Naviance is a company that provides software that can help a high school collect data and present it, among other things. One of the data points naviance can collect is the stats (GPA/SAT scores) of students, the colleges that they applied to, the colleges that accepted or rejected them. The program can then make a scatterplot for each college to which students applied. It is quite nifty if there are enough data points.</p>

<p>AHS</a> c/o 2007</p>

<p>This isn't done by naviance, but is my favorite scatterplot. Arcadia high school is a large suburban high school in LA County which has a substantial percentage of Asian kids attending. Pick any school listed and see what % of students were accepted within a certain stat range. </p>

<p>2008 scatterplot not out yet. This is Class of 2007 data.</p>

<p>ellemenope : Great! thanks.</p>

<p>Looked at the charts then from those it seems clear that D should get accepted to any UC's with a very good probability.</p>

<p>You can't extrapolate from charts from one school to another's. You need charts from your own dd's school.</p>

<p>I think you need to be careful here with the talk of values/ethics and public/private schools.</p>

<p>First, many of the schools on the list have been trying to get away from the elitist values that your post suggests you embrace. </p>

<p>In addition, most of the schools that your family is considering for your D do not value the idea that you should join a certain club or do a certain activity simply for the fact that it might be a help to gain admission into that school. Their 'values' consist of doing said activity for personal growth, passion and its contribution to your community. In fact, I think that at most of these universities, such behavior, though not exactly unethical, surely wouldn't be considered model behavior. </p>

<p>But given past posts on this forum, it doesn't seem that you share this particular value of these universities.</p>

<p>If you look at posts #91 and 96, it seems clear that the OP is striking back at someone whom he considers to have been rude to him by suggesting that they are lacking in "grooming"; ie, they have not been taught how to handle themselves well in public discourse. I don't blame him for being miffed: I would have been too had those remarks been directed at me. Nevertheless, in my experience most educational institutions supply some guidance in social--in the broadest sense--behavior. The OP is mistaken in thinking that public schools do not provide such guidance. (Ours certainly do, starting in kindergarten.) He is mistaken in thinking that private school is necessarily "better" than public school. There are lots of public school systems that surpass lots of private schools. (And vice versa, of course.) He is also mistaken in thinking that private schools are not amply supplied with boors of all stripes. IMHO, of course, having attended both and sent our S to both, and observed others.</p>

<p>ParentofIvyHope,</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your daughter, you're getting lots of great help.</p>

<p>"It might have been because of public education which lacks in imparting values or ethics or any grooming or sophistication."</p>

<p>Oh, I was public schooled all the way and got into one of your dd's top private choices, POIH. </p>

<p>I stand by what I said. She's young, she's naive (what high schooler isn't? mine are too) and she seems to think that "the Ivies", which is nothing more than an athletic conference, is the key to everything. She's supposedly interested in engineering but is also interested in schools that do nothing to further that interest, e.g., UChicago and Georgetown. Someone who cares about her needs to introduce her to the engineering schools and also to inform her about the many very excellent publics that serve future engineers well. Sorry if you took offense, none was meant.</p>

<p>I get the impression that his daughter might not really be interested in engineering, but using that as a backdoor into some top tier schools.</p>

<p>And POIH? Given your posts on another thread where you made nasty comments over a young lady whose mother died, was one of 5 and needed FA to go to college -- you're not one to talk about values and ethics with me.</p>

<p>Like you, I'll pay full freight to put my children through the college of their choice. However, instead of being the type of person who will begrudge "subsidizing" a less-well-to-do classmate, I am full of gratitude that we are able to afford it through our own hard work.</p>

<p>Pizzagirl: "However, instead of being the type of person who will begrudge "subsidizing" a less-well-to-do classmate, I am full of gratitude that we are able to afford it through our own hard work."</p>

<p>There is nothing towards anyone who is less-well-to-do as it is all relative; my D might be less-well-to-do compare to her class mates at her prep school but that doesn't mean that she will need to get some privileges for being that.</p>

<p>A education at HYPS should not be free to anyone. Why you need to go if you can’t afford it or can’t take a loan. There are lots of other good colleges. You either work towards paying it yourself or someone else work towards paying it. But it should be free.</p>

<p>That was the point in the other thread and I know what I say. I standby my comments and don't preach unless I practice.</p>

<p>Rice is definitely NOT a safety.</p>

<p>Um...POIH, would you mind posting your daughter's stats and ECs? Perhaps much of this animated discussion is moot ...Also, like some of the other posters, I am intrigued by your daughter's interest in everything ranging from literature to engineering to CS to finance - leading to a career in medicine (focus, or lack thereof?).</p>

<p>I think applying to 26 colleges is too many. There is a lot of work attached to the applications including the essays, finding teachers to write recommendations, visiting the schools, etc. Best is to pick a region in the country and visit your top choices in that area. Make sure you have at least 2 good safety schools.</p>

<p>OP: "To put things in perspective my D has opinion that she would like to be "Literate than Educated" so to her the solely tech schools are not good place to get literate and so the big public places..... My D will be comfortable at schools that has more breadth of courses available with better mix of student body i.e at least 45% girls."</p>

<p>Keep Lafayette on your list. It's a liberal arts college that has strong engineering and biology. It's close to 50/50 gender-wise, and in a residential neighborhood in a small (not great) city. Also, Union as a safety - good biology and some engineering, also in a residential neighborhood in a small somewhat-run-down city. Lehigh might also fit the bill, similar to the others. Tufts is also an excellent school that would fit your D's interests. I read in another post that your D doesn't want rural, so that eliminates Bucknell, it's pretty remote. </p>

<p>I think you need to broaden your thinking a bit, your list of schools on page one that you "never heard of".... they're all quality schools and I've heard of and respect all of them. It seems to me that your initial list was more based on name-prestige than any real thought about which schools have which programs, or other factors such as school size, location, EC offerings, etc.</p>

<p>Smith, Mt Holyoke have strong engineering/computer science programs. For Wellesley, the MIT connection provides an excellent way to take engineering/computer science classes while a student can get a great liberal arts education at Wellesley. Acceptance rates for these schools are not nearly as selective as the Ivy league schools.</p>

<p>That's a great suggestion, Columbia Student.</p>

<p>"There is nothing towards anyone who is less-well-to-do as it is all relative; my D might be less-well-to-do compare to her class mates at her prep school but that doesn't mean that she will need to get some privileges for being that.</p>

<p>A education at HYPS should not be free to anyone. "</p>

<p>Should my children be fortunate enough to get into HYPS and I pay full freight, the thought that my money might also be subsidizing some deserving, poor student doesn't bother me at all. What a nice "problem" to have. Life's too short to worry about people who are less well off getting "breaks they don't deserve." If HYPS considers them worthy of getting full rides because they bring diversity to the school that the institution values, then it's no skin off my back and I wonder why it's skin off yours. I, unlike you, would consider it a good thing if my children get to go with school with people who may not be as privileged as they are. Who's got the better breeding again? LOL.</p>

<p>The statement "It might have been because of public education which lacks in imparting values or ethics or any grooming or sophistication." conveys that public school system doesn't impart these values."</p>

<p>What type of "values or ethics" encompasses doing an activity not because it's an activity that genuinely engages the student, but because it could theoretically be turned into a hook to game the system and get into an Ivy?</p>