Villanova Cancels Artist Workshop

Parents Forum
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<p>Seahorsesrock quote:
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The church also defends and pays pedophiles. Don’t make it right. As for the bishops, well, they don’t represent the vast majority of Catholics and how they act. They are losing influence because they don’t deserve respect. Only until they admit their coverup of horrendous crimes, only then should they be paid any attention to.</p>

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<p>And, this thread isn’t about bashing the Catholic Church? Sure, right… :rolleyes:</p>

<p>and, of course, there’s this little gem: </p>

<p>“Quote:
So the simple fact of being gay makes a person to a Catholic University as the KKK is to people of color?”</p>

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<p>The church steps in when they feel like it. And ignores its own house. Is anything I said not true? They are all into my vagina and health care and art and movies and politics and raking in money, but do little to the very criminals in their midsts. So yeah, when they go after art in the name of the church, as if they have some righteous and pure record, they look foolish and hypocritical.</p>

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<p>Ok, we get it that you hate the Catholic Church. But does cancelling or not cancelling an art performance really change anything about anything else the Catholic church does? Nope. I don’t see why because of what others in their organization have done that makes Villanova have to endorse anything else as a university.</p>

<p>Anyways, I’m agnostic, but I don’t really care that something like this was cancelled to begin with. Sure, artists should have 100% of the free speech rights that anyone else have. But this just seems to reek of self-important, Vagina Monologues-type stuff that is needlessly shocking. But maybe I’m just “old-fashioned.” Whatever.</p>

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<p>mom2collegekids, I don’t think it’s “bashing” to point out that the Catholic Church has been involved in a horrific situation regarding sexual assault of children and their , let’s say, slow reaction time to it. Even the most ardent Catholic has to admit that while it may be terrible, it’s also true. That makes the Catholic Church suspect to some people when it comes to passing judgement in other areas. Again, not bashing, just someone’s conclusion of how an action has a consequence.</p>

<p>And, yes, I asked for clarification of the rather shocking, to my mind, wander into the idea that a man who is openly gay being invited to speak at a Catholic college is any where close to being equal to a historically black college asking a member of the KKK to speak. Where did that analogy even come from?! I’m still horrified by that train of thought and I haven’t seen any clarification of it beyond the denial that I’m reading it correctly and now it’s been labeled “bashing.” It was a question!</p>

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<p>No nudity or simulated sex: it was a diversity workshop</p>

<p>“Unfortunately, a lot of what he was going to do on campus got distorted,” Hall said. “He was purely doing an educational workshop… [n]udity and simulated sex acts were not to be part of the Villanova show.”</p>

<p>Who is Hall?</p>

<p>Chair of Villanova’s Communications Department. </p>

<p>Why did they invite Miller?</p>

<p>"When Villanova University’s communication department invited the gay performance artist Tim Miller to campus, professors envisioned the program as another piece of an organized effort to spur dialogue on diversity issues at the Catholic school.</p>

<p>“As we’ve been working on this process of ‘intergroup dialogue,’ we’ve had a number of events that have featured people who have been instrumental in helping students think across the lines of difference in terms of identity,” said Maurice Hall, chair of the department.</p>

<p>[Villanova</a> officials silent on gay artist cancellation](<a href=“http://www.philly.com/philly/education/20120222_Villanova_officials_silent_on_gay_artist_cancellation.html]Villanova”>Villanova officials silent on gay artist cancellation)</p>

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<p>I think you’d be surprised how welcomed that student would feel at the level of professors, staff and students. It’s the higher ups that are taking the hard line. I don’t see that coming from the bottom up, but rather the top down. From the article in the post above,</p>

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<p>If the idea is to make the campus less welcoming, then that’s their business but it will have consequences for the university. How long can Villanova continue to claim that they have “intellectual freedom and academic discourse” while the list of taboo topics and speakers continues to grow?</p>

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<p>“Frankly, it would surprise me if what clairemarie described in #75 was the standard at Catholic schools.”</p>

<p>It is the standard at schools that are striving to remain faithful to their Catholic identity. Certainly, there are many colleges that were founded by religious orders but which have gradually shed their Catholic identity to the extent that they are, indeed, indistinguishable from their secular counterparts, except for some quaint statues and a mission statement that contains vague references to watered-down Catholic principles. And they are probably the majority of Catholic colleges. These are the schools that proudly proclaim their appeal to “diverse” student bodies and their embrace of all “faith traditions,” which is often code for “the percentage of Catholics in our student body has been declining for years so serious Catholics wanting a genuine Catholic atmosphere should probably look elsewhere.”</p>

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<p>“I think you’d be surprised how welcomed that student would feel at the level of professors, staff and students.”</p>

<p>I think that you simply cannot wrap your head around the fact that not every well-educated, intelligent member of an academic community accepts the proposition that homosexual activities are morally acceptable. It’s not just the “higher-ups,” but substantial numbers of faculty, staff, students, and alumni who embrace Catholic teachings on these and other challenging topics. </p>

<p>It’s a nice trick to fold the abusive priests into the argument, but the fact that a tiny minority of priests and bishops miserably failed to live their vocation faithfully discredits neither the faith itself nor those who have the authority to teach it. The truth is that there are sexual predators in every walk of life – priests, cops, rabbis, public school teachers, football coaches, parents, grandparents, uncles, doctors, ministers, executives – and that few institutions have covered themselves in glory in reacting to these abuses.</p>

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<p>I think you are out of step. I base that not just on my own experience but on discussions with my aunt, a recently retired professor of theology at Villanova, and my cousin, a staff member at Villanova. They were both very confident that my son, who is gay, would have a very positive and welcoming experience at Villanova.</p>

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<p>Again, I think that your own personal experiences have convinced you that every right-thinking educated person must necessarily agree with you on this issue. I have no connections with Villanova, so no idea the extent to which its administration, faculty and students accept Church teachings on homosexuality or any other issue. But I can tell you that I am not “out of step” to assert that there are well-educated, intelligent, and compassionate people who believe that homosexual activities are seriously sinful, and that their belief is based on prayerful acceptance of the teachings of the Catholic Church. And that these people would indeed “welcome” your son (or any other homosexual person), but would not extend that welcome of your son to approval of homosexual activities.</p>

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<p>I do think every right thinking person should agree with me; I believe all Americans should enjoy their full civil rights. Level of formal has nothing to do with it nor does “approval.” Someone can disapprove of inter-racial marriage but so long as they are not trying to get the civil law to reflect that, I simply don’t care. It’ a matter of the majority lifting it’s boot off the neck of a minority. That has happened over and over again in this country and it’s part of what makes us great. </p>

<p>Villanova, like all religiously-affliated universities faces a serious of choices. For example, a university is either a place for a open exchange of ideas or it’s not. Villanova is closing in on itself, which may elevate it in the eyes of the Catholic Church but it’s not going to have the same effect in the academic world.</p>

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<p>As a supporter of gay rights,who has a D at Villanova, and this D has a friend,who happens to be male and gay, i think Villanova has the right to cancel on this artist…He is more then Just a gay supporter, and i use the term artist loosely…he is more radical then he needs to be…</p>

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<p>Clare quote:
It’s a nice trick to fold the abusive priests into the argument, but the fact that a tiny minority of priests and bishops miserably failed to live their vocation faithfully discredits neither the faith itself nor those who have the authority to teach it. The truth is that there are sexual predators in every walk of life – priests, cops, rabbis, public school teachers, football coaches, parents, grandparents, uncles, doctors, ministers, executives – and that few institutions have covered themselves in glory in reacting to these abuses.</p>

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<p>Very, very true…a small percentage behaving horrendously…like the rest of the population and rest of various clergy, teachers, etc.</p>

<p>But…of course…it has to get mentioned by all the Catholic-haters…and yes, that’s what’s going on. What certain members of the Church did or didn’t do right during that time has NOTHING to do with the truths that the Church holds dear. The Church doesn’t only have saints as members…it’s full of daily sinners…and some really awful sinners. </p>

<p>What rarely ever gets mentioned is that during what may or may not have been a cover-up, is that many bishops were VERY poorly advised by mental health professionals AT THAT TIME. During those decades it was believed (wrongly!!) that those with disordered attractions to young males could be “fixed” with counseling. So, off to counseling these men went. Obviously, health professionals know differently now…these people cannot be cured…but the Church is being judged without proper context. </p>

<p>Also, when dealing with the minor-aged victims and their families, many of the parents INSISTED (using legal methods) on a cover-up of sorts to protect their kids from teasing, etc. In hindsight, that often protected the guilty, but some parents were more focused on protecting their kids’ than thinking about the future of others…and again, at that time, many believed that these disordered-people could be fixed.</p>

<p>And…Pugmad…your son would have been lovingly welcomed at Nova and other Catholic univs. </p>

<p>The Catholic Church is firm on its teaching that sexual relations should only happen between a man and woman in marriage. The Church doesn’t really distinquish between gay or not-gay in regards to the sex act. Straights who aren’t married to each other aren’t supposed to be having sex, either. So, the Church has a consistent message. That doesn’t mean that it hates the young couple (gay or straight) that is having sex. No. And it doesn’t mean that it hates the man who cheats on his wife (or vice versa). The Church believes the behavior is wrong…but loves all… ALL.</p>

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<p>“I do think every right thinking person should agree with me; I believe all Americans should enjoy their full civil rights.”</p>

<p>And they do. The question whether those rights include the right to “marry” a person of the same sex is an open one; certainly, the question whether all Americans must agree that homosexual activities are morally equivalent to heterosexual ones has been answered in the negative. </p>

<p>“The Church doesn’t really distinquish between gay or not-gay in regards to the sex act.”</p>

<p>Well, not quite. The Church regards homosexual activities as intrinsically disordered. They can NEVER be condoned, regardless of the legal relationship of the persons involved.</p>

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<p>[Internet</a> History Sourcebooks Project](<a href=“http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/index-bos.asp]Internet”>Internet History Sourcebooks Project)</p>

<p>^^a Fordham site</p>

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<p>claremarie: your opinion of the Jesuits? Do you understand the current church position on homosexuality wasn’t exactly written by Paul? or an early Pope?</p>

<p>I happen to think the Jesuits are pretty darn important historically, though they weren’t always exactly what we might have wanted them to be. But overall - pretty impressive group imho</p>

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<p>alh,</p>

<p>Do you understand the Church teaching on homosexuality? (Hint – it’s not a “current position”)</p>

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<p>Clare…I think you took my words out of context.</p>

<p>my point was that the Church believes that only within the context of marriage between one man and one woman should any sexual activity occur. The Church wouldn’t care if a gov’t entity declared other types of marriage to be legal…whether homosexual, polygamous, etc. That was my point. In the eyes of the Church, sex that isn’t in the context of marriage (as the Church defines marriage) is wrong. People try to take the fact that the Church will never condone homosexual sex as proof that it “hates gays”. The Church will never condone males and females “shacking up” or having “hook ups” either…the Church thinks all of that behavior is wrong…but the Church doesn’t hate anyone. </p>

<p>While no one must agree with the Church…no one has to belong to the religion, attend her schools, or be treated at her hospitals. The Church is very pro-choice about that. ;)</p>

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<p>mom2collegekids,</p>

<p>Got it. Thanks for clarifying, though you probably know there are those who think that the Church’s objection to homosexual activities is based on the “marriage” point, and if homosexuals can get married, then the Church will change that teaching and decide that married homosexual activities are fine.</p>

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<p>So, I’ve been following the thread all day. The title caught my eye this morning as I have a son who is a sophomore at Villanova. It finally occurred to me to wonder WHY the original point was posted and wonder WHY so many of you feel so invested in the cancellation of a workshop at Villanova. Seems to me that this might be important to me/my S and qdogpa/his D (and maybe others unknown) because our kids are directly impacted by this “lack of diverse viewpoint” (the cancellation) or potential “offensive anti-Catholic event” (should the workshop had taken place). But I can’t figure out why any of the rest of you should even be concerned with either the mission of this particular school or the character of a Catholic university.</p>

<p>My son carefully and deliberately chose this university. He had other options; he was accepted to and visited other (some secular) universities. He, and we, were well aware that Villanova was a Catholic university and that it espoused specific values and doctrine. That’s our business. He’s still very happy with his decision to attend. Just as my atheist, liberal, bi-, activist son is in his choice to relocate to San Francisco.</p>

<p>JHS says that the cancellation of the workshop really bothers her. I’m still wondering why? She says that she admits to a mild, lingering prejudice against universities affiliated with religious groups. Then why even bother to pay attention to these events much less spend the time posting about them? I‘ve never been a staunch defender of the catholic faith, but in this case I do believe that posting on this topic is a clear opportunity for catholic-bashing, couched in a concern for universities as a place for “the open exchange of ideas”.</p>

<p>I’ve asked for this thread to be moved to the Villanova forum, where it may be of some use to prospective students evaluating Villanova as a university and a home for four years. As a general discussion on the Parent Forum, it’s pretty much exhausted its usefulness.</p>

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<p>Archiemom, your post should be the last word here.</p>

<p>However, I am pretty sure JHS is a dad. This explains why I do not hesitate to crossing virtual swords. Doing so with CC-mommies is far more perilous.</p>

<p>As far as the criticisms hurled at the Catholic schools, it comes with the expectation of more than academic excellence in an imperfect world. There is an Old World say about the tallest trees catching the most wind.</p>