Violating SCEA by collecting multiple acceptances

Parents Forum
1

<p>On the Yale board right now, there are several threads in which student posters say they know someone who received simultaneous SCEA acceptances from Yale and Stanford, or an SCEA acceptance from Yale along with an EA acceptance from MIT. Either scenario is a breach of the Yale/Stanford SCEA agreements. (In those agreements, the applicant agrees not to submit concurrent ED, SCEA, or EA applications.)The posters are wondering if there is any way these students will be caught. Sigh. </p>

<p>Obviously, if the GC, a peer, a parent, or even someone on these boards gets wind of what's happened, he/she could contact the involved colleges’ admissions offices. But I’m wondering if peer colleges have a more formal way of detecting SCEA/REA violations. </p>

<p>It’s common wisdom that peer colleges share lists of ED acceptances, and that a student who collects RD acceptances after getting an ED acceptance stands to have all acceptances revoked. But does anyone know if peer colleges also share lists of SCEA/REA acceptances?</p>

2

<br>


<br>

<p>Most likely they will. The peer colleges share lists. I would guess that Yale and Stanford both being SCEA would know if kids show up on both lists. I'm sorry...but it's dishonest (and stupid) to do this. These are bright kids supposedly...who deserve to have both acceptances rescinded.</p>

3

<p>I'm torn. On the one hand, you have the top schools who have stacked the deck steeply in their own favor, in this cushy seller's market. On the other hand, you have the applicants who game the system, skirting--even egregiously breaking--the "rules" and thinking that it's okay to do so. I don't know which faction is within their rights to do so.</p>

4

<p>I don't know if the applicants will or won't be caught. I'm pretty sure they don't expect to be caught. That belief has to come from somewhere. How are these kids getting to this point?</p>

5

<p>I have no idea if they share information; however, I must say that I take these things with a grain of salt. I think that some students may boast that they got into two schools SCEA when it is not true, just as they boast about non-existent merit awards to need-only schools and the like.</p>

<p>It seems highly unlikely that an American GC could be unaware that a student has violated the SCEA rules, and even more unlikely that they would aid and abet them. (Who knows what happens in Asia. I've read threads here in which Asian students say that lying about ECs on a grand scale and other attempts at fraud are common. But that may be puffery also.)</p>

<p>If it is true, I hope that all parties get what they deserve.</p>

6

<p>thumper -- Yes, peer colleges share ED lists. But do they also share SCEA/REA acceptance lists. It's a bit tricky, as it would require Stanford and Yale to share SCEA acceptance lists with one another and with peer schools like MIT, Caltech, Georgetown, and U of C that have EA or SCEA. (I'd say most, maybe all, violations are likely to involve some combination of those six colleges.) I agree that these kids deserve to have both acceptances rescinded. The worst part of it is that it can poison the well for students at the high school for years.</p>

<p>consolation -- I hope you're right, but I think it's easier to skirt these rules than the no ED/RD rules. A student could simply ask the GC to send transcripts and the school report to both schools, saying one was an SCEA application and one an RD. Of course, that presumes that a busy high school counseling office doesn't table all RD apps until after ED/SCEA apps are completed. Yes, maybe you are right that these examples are fiction. I hope so.</p>

7

<p>Re post #3: I'm not torn in the least. A kid who does this has taken a place away from another kid who genuinely WANTS to go to one of those schools.</p>

<p>They deserved to be dumped by both Yale AND Stanford in favor of one of the many honest kids who are also fully qualified whose hopes have just been dashed in favor of yet another self-aggrandizing jerk.</p>

8

<br>


<br>

<p>Well..the colleges make their rules VERY well known. I would say that those who are dishonest in their application submissions are NOT within their rights to do so.</p>

9

<p>If I remember correctly, The GC has to sign the SCEA form. So is the GC taking part in this?</p>

10

<p>Hmmm. Does the GC sign off? I know the student does, on the Common App.</p>

11

<p>there used to be a form that had to be printed, signed, and mailed in.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I'm torn. On the one hand, you have the top schools who have stacked the deck steeply in their own favor, in this cushy seller's market. On the other hand, you have the applicants who game the system, skirting--even egregiously breaking--the "rules" and thinking that it's okay to do so. I don't know which faction is within their rights to do so.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The SCEA rules are clear, and a student who thinks they're unfair certainly is not forced to apply SCEA. But a student who simply decides the rules don't apply to him/her penalizes other applicants. If enough students game the system, it will eventually fall. Do we really think it's okay for kids to dishonor their agreements when it suits them? Some of those kids may be the same wizards who have brought the financial system to its knees.</p>

13

<p>At this time, they are not likely to get caught if they keep their mouths shut. This has been a dirty little secret for at least 10 years. I 've known a number of kids who have "forbidden" transactions that way. The colleges know that they are dealing with high school and that cheating is rampant. They really should step up their vigilance is these things. Really they leave it up to the GCs. Other that the ED list which is only scrutinized at the consortium schools, there really is no one enforcing the rules. The risk is if a student gets caught he can lose his acceptance(s). But there are folks who want to take that risk.</p>

14

<p>Posting on CC is hardly keeping their mouths shut... While the adcoms have lots to do, they have been known to meander through CC - and someone talking about how they got into both Yale and MIT would be enough for me to make a phone call to my buddy at the other school.</p>

<p>If caught, they should have their acceptances revoked... the rules are crystal clear - if you want to apply EA then you agree to abide by the rules.</p>

15

<p>Nationally we are looking at the effects of dishonesty, exploitation of the system, and corruption at all levels. This is simply the high school version of it. Why would we support protecting kids from the consequences of their dishonest actions? It only reinforces continuing to do this. The front pages of the NYT and WSJ are demonstrating the effects of our tendency to look the other way because someone is bright or qualifies for an elite education, etc. I actually think CC has a moral responsiblity to report such "findings"; if they turn out to be "bogus" it doesn't matter; if there are grounds to investigate then it is supporting a system that is hoping to be fair, even though that is hard won.</p>

16

<br>


<br>

<p>Actually it's SCEA and ED that have the stringent rules. For SCEA it's ONLY ONE SCHOOL..you know "single". Regular EA applicants are simply applying early action for an early acceptance. Of course if the SCEA school prohibits that..you shouldn't be doing it.</p>

17

<p>First of all, I think that any GC worth their salt, would know or should know the stipulations of ED/ EA and SCEA. In addition, they should have an idea of where every kid on their case load is applying and what they have sent out on that student's behalf.</p>

<p>Since the applications cannot be completed with out transcripts, evaluations or GC rec, the GC IMHO, had the ability to nip the whole situation in the bud, by telling a student, hey "Sybbie, you applied SCEA to Yale/Stanford. As you know, Stanford/Yale has SCEA which means that you can not apply to any other early programs.This means that I cannot will not be sending out any more transcripts, recommendations, etc on your behalf, until you receive a response from Stanford.</p>

<p>I am wondering how many GCs/college counselors are willing to risk their professional integrity (possibly their job because this indicates that they really are having problems doing it) and future students to play fast and lose with the process. </p>

<p>It will catch up with the student because the colleges do send the acceptance information to the school. The GC should have an ethical responsibility to inform the schools as to what happend.</p>

18

<p>can't see sane GC and HS being complicit in such a scenario - too much to lose in future non-admits because of lost credibility</p>

<p>can't see the scenario occurring w/o GC and school participating</p>

<p>thus, (except maybe as noted earlier international applicants are different), IMHO somebody is just blowing smoke</p>

19

<p>A GC in a high school where few kids aspire to Yale etc? I can see a GC simply not knowing either way. I think people on here tend to forget that not every GC is skilled in or has experience with applying to elite colleges; many of them are just doing the plug-and-chug to get kids to the state schools or some nearby private colleges, and the particulars of what Yale does and says isn't on their radar screen. Having said that, of course it's morally wrong and the colleges are pretty clear what they do and do not allow.</p>

20

<p>Except in a few cases, the GCs do not know who is accepted. That is considered private info most of the time. S's school is well connected but there were more cases where the kids had to tell the counselors than the counselors finding out independently. They want the original accept letters from the kids, in fact, so that their stats are accurate.</p>

<p>In many of the larger schools where the GCs deal with every kind of issue imaginable with the kids, college acceptance is often just a sliver of the pie they have to eat. There is no way they are going to stay on top of who applied where and if they were accepted and if the rules are being kept. I daresay that those schools that do stay on top of their students are the ones where the admissions officers know the college counselors and feel that they are getting enforcement of the rules and the straight dope from them.</p>