<p>Hunt & WJB – yes, the GC has to sign off the ED agreement. I’m not so sure about EA agreements needing to be signed. My Yale SCEA agreement was on the supplement and only needed my digital signature (i.e. full name) – my counsellor didn’t have to sign it. Neither did he have to indicate anywhere on his commonapp evaluation that I was applying SCEA. Of course, he did know that I was (only person from my school who applied to Yale) and maybe he mentioned it on his rec. Maybe not. I wouldn’t know.</p>
<p>And GCs could forget, and not all schools keep strict, paper/computerized records of everything. In smaller schools, sometimes the GC feels sorry for the student like the second underdog story I talked about. And I know for a fact that both cases were true because I heard from the person/their friend what they did. Maybe they didn’t get a big boost and maybe they’d have deserved to get into those colleges, but it still wasn’t honest. That’s all.</p>
<p>^^I agree that to the extent this does happen, it’s terribly dishonest. I wish there were more effective ways for colleges to share information and detect violations.</p>
<p>I am shocked that a GC would allow a breach of the ED/REA rules because s/he felt sorry for a student. That’s just stupid counseling. Setting aside the issue of promoting dishonesty, allowing a student to file multiple improper ED/EA applications can wind up hurting the kid and the high school. If colleges discover these violations, acceptances are revoked. Even colleges that don’t use ED will still honor other colleges’ ED/REA policies, so if ND finds out what the student has done, it will revoke his acceptance, and if either Rice or Yale finds out, his deferral will become a denial. And if the violation is uncovered, the high school counseling office gets a black mark and the college may automatically deny applications from that HS for a period.</p>
<p>I’m the OP’s classmate, and I can assure you all that our GC is one of those who probably doesn’t even know what EA is. It was certainly an oversight on his part. Nontheless, the girl in question is culpable, and we (justifiably) feel like she is cheating. What can we do to report her and help save out school’s reputation?</p>
<p>Whoa…reporting someone? Now I in no way condone this girl’s actions, but neither do I feel the need to spite her and possibly drastically alter her future. To report her, while seemingly an act of justice, is excessively cruel as well considering it would probably have her rejected from all her schools, but also blacklisted as well. I simply feel that it really isn’t the business of her peers to deal such a blow. Of course, kaekae could be joking and I could have blown this way out of proportion.</p>
<p>–Applicant did not violate ND EA policy, which permits participation in other early programs.
–Applicant did not violate Rice’s ED policy, which specifies only that participation cannot occur in any other ED program.
–Applicant did violate Yale SCEA policy, which specifies participation cannot occur in any other early program save for puplic U’s rolling and priority admission programs. But there is “no harm” in that she was not yet been admitted.</p>
<p>If all these schools were to discover this situation it seems that the consequences would be
– ND might rescind her application if they choose to honor Yale’s policy
– Rice would probably close her pending application to honor Yale’s policy
– Yale would certainly close her pending application as it was submitted in violation of their policy</p>
<p>What should be done?
– The honorable thing for the applicant to do would be to contact all three schools, explain the situation, and accept the consequences. I propose approaching her with this suggestion.
– In addition to this, the GC should be educated about the Yale SCEA policy, assuming s/he is ignorant of it (I agree with most posters that this is probably true of many, if not most, public HS GC’s). Ideally the applicant should explain her mistake, but failing this, knowledgeable others (preferably as a group) should approach the GC. The GC should then at least make sure that the applicant withdraws her Yale application, to prevent the possibility of future harm (by claiming a spot through violation of the rules). Again, ideally, the GC should also contact Rice and ND about the situation and allow them to consider what they will do.
– If the GC is not responsive, I suggest contacting the principal and presenting the same information.</p>
<p>Personally speaking, I think the minimal result you should be willing to accept is that she withdraw her Yale app so that no other student is closed out of a spot because of her and the admissions committee puts no more time and energy into evaluating her. It would be better if you can get either her or the school administration to get this done because it is their responsibility to fix it, and better still if you can get all parties fully informed about this, but I would not pursue the maximal outcome at all costs.</p>
<p>I like Descartesz’ suggestions of using this situation as an opportunity to educate the GC about Yale’s SCEA policy and putting the ball in the high school’s court. The school allowed the problem to happen, and it is up to them to fix it. Pressing the student to withdraw her Yale application is an excellent idea. I suspect she won’t do it on her own, but with the threat that the GC will contact Yale if she doesn’t, she’s likely to comply. And if she won’t agree to withdraw the app and the GC must contact Yale about her actions, the GC will preserve his/her program’s credibility with Yale Admissions. That’s good for the rest of the students whose Yale applications are pending.</p>
<p>Generally it is not considered to be a violation, but check each school’s specific policy. Applying to more than one school’s ED is like polygamy–promising exclusive commitment to two individuals–but an ED school isn’t usually bothered if you are simply “still looking” until it has agreed to admit you.</p>
<p>Of course there might be restrictions in the EA policy which could be violated even if it is kosher with the ED policy.</p>
<p>It all depends on the school. It may violate the policy of either the ED school or the EA school. Georgetown and Boston College, for example, do not permit students to apply under their EA programs if they are applying to a binding ED program at another college.</p>
<p>It’s best to check the admissions websites of the colleges in question.</p>
<p>Its my understanding that you can apply to both an ED school and an EA school. If the ED school accepts you, you must attend there even if the EA school also accepts you.</p>
<p>In fairness, the industry has made all of this so convoluted it is easy to see why inadvertent mistakes are made! It also explains why some are able to play the system and unfortunately that is unfair.</p>
<p>^^add to that; SCEA has to be the stupidist one of all; you have to commit “your love” to one; do they care? usually not; they can’t guarantee you will attend if admitted…IMO, SCEA is a lose-lose situation…</p>
<p>at least with ED you sometimes get an admission advantage…</p>
<p>Not sure there’s as much of an admissions boost with REA as with ED, but if you are admitted SCEA/REA, you have a fantastic acceptance in pocket in December and, if you choose, you can sidestep the anxiety that goes along with having to apply to a full range of RD colleges. You also have the option of keeping other applications in play and comparing financial aid packages in the spring. With ED, there’s no ability to compare financial aid packages from other schools.</p>
<p>^^right, but that can be done with any rolling, ER or EA…
what advantage is there for the school to require a SCEA? that’s what I can’t understand…if there is no commitment, why not just have EA rather than restrictive?..
for example, Tulane reinsituted SCEA as well this year in addition to EA…so what? they didn’t accept more of the SCEA than the EA</p>
<p>Interesting point, Rodney. It’s probably an elitist thing. Stanford and Yale (the only two schools I can think of that are using REA) are saying, in essence, We’ll let you shop around some, but not freely. We are fancy institutions, and we are going to differentiate ourselves from the hoi polloi who use unrestricted EA by requiring a measure of fidelity from our early applicants.</p>
<p>I am the OP. I’ve got some new information.
So she was confronted online about it by my classmate and she said she called the schools and asked if it was ok. Is this even possible? The general consesus here is that SHE DID VIOLATE the SCEA policy, right?
And fyi, she is not the angel some of you people are making her out to be; My friend and I believe that reporting this would only make things fair for everyone. REMEMBER, my classmate and I who are blowing the whistle are NOT applying to Yale; however, we strongly believe in the fairness and integrity of the college admissions process and do not want this cheating girl to steal a spot over someone who played by the rules.
And can you say definitively that this would hurt our school and other applicants in the future? That our school would be somehow blacklisted? At least from Yale?</p>
<p>Your classmate’s applications to ND EA and Rice ED do not meet any of these criteria.</p>
<p>OP: Why not take Descartesz’ advice to take this matter up with the GC and, if need be, higher administration. Let them solve the problem. That way there is no risk of a blacklist by Yale.</p>
<p>The advantage is that people have to think they are serious enough candidates to forgo the perceived advantage of applying ED or EA to other colleges. Harvard went from ED to EA (unrestricted), it was absolutely swamped with early applications. What possible incentive was there for anyone NOT to apply? So the next year they instituted SCEA, and Yale and then Stanford joined in. Both the numbers (as Harvard experienced them at the time) and my anecdotal experience tells me that the “SC” part cuts down the number of early applications they receive by half or more. </p>
<p>It also limits the possibilities for conflict with peer institutions. Can you imagine the gnashing and wailing that would occur if students were allowed to apply EA to Yale and ED to, say, Cornell? And were accepted at both? Every year, there are a couple of CC threads about breaking ED agreements, but if there were no SCEA there would be almost as many of those threads as there were kids accepted at Yale or Stanford.</p>
<p>It is just part of the thing. Are you willing to take the risk of getting caught for a possible trade off? You have something to gain (being in another top college, getting the minor ED/EA boost another school), but you also have a lot to lose.</p>
<p>I too know people who have done this, and I think it is extremely unfair and makes me quite angry. OK well not with Yale, but with BC and Brown EA/ED respectively. Of course I would never go to my GC about this issue, but still…it irks me. And he got accepted by Brown ED and is now attending.</p>
<p>invisible man: there is absolutely NO WAY she called the Yale admissions office and got the thumbs up on that. if she did, ask her the name of the person with whom she spoke and when. there is NO POSSIBLE WAY anyone in that office would possibly condone this. i know it is hard to do online, but i hope you believe me. this is a HUGE deal to yale and they would take action.</p>
<p>she cheated. cheated. that’s bad. that’s awful actually, and with 25K+ applicants there is no reason to seriously consider the app of someone who is willingly to so flagrantly sidestep some serious, thought-out, ethical rules. yale moved from EA to SCEA for a reason.</p>
<p>ugh. </p>
<p>and an important note to “pigs”…regarding your casual comment that people cheat, and people cheat in college? wow. “people cheat in college”? is that not a big deal to you? are you OK with that idea? because if you are, that’s telling. and it is spinning my head right now. i hope you understand that cheating, on the app, in the high school classroom, and at college, IS a huge deal. are you accepted already? were you an EA admit? because that comment/philosophy so casually posted is troubling. you do know that a lot of different people see at these boards, right? anyone can pop in and view a public forum.</p>