<p>Here is an article that appeared in the Washington post. There was a kid with 2240 SATs and 3.4 GPA ( as a result of a death in family and mono in early years) who got rejected everywhere including James Madison University. Things are geting tough for Virginia state universities</p>
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<p>N.Va. College Applicants Face Extra Hurdle
Abundance of Achievers Stiffens Competition</p>
<p>The news hit Robinson Secondary School in Fairfax County right after spring vacation. "Joe Robinson got rejected by JMU?! How can that be?" </p>
<p>James Madison University in Harrisonburg is one of the best schools in Virginia, students, teachers and counselors agree. Most students would have trouble getting in. But this was Joe Robinson who got the thin envelope, the same Joe Robinson who had an SAT score of 2270, who was one of only two National Merit semifinalists in his class, who heads the choral group, who writes fantasy novels in his spare time, who had some of the most glowing teacher recommendations his counselor had ever seen.</p>
<p>Thanks for the article. This is not the first time that I have heard that admission can be tough from NOVA. I wonder if JMU was thinking that this student was using JMU as a safety? What good are safeties if one is not admitted into them?</p>
<p>Frankly, I believe admission to one of our state schools in NJ is easier from outside our state, than from instate, but that is just my opinion.</p>
<p>A child in this area (central Virginia) was waitlisted at Virginia Tech this year with a 3.85 GPA and legacy status (great ECs but don't know SAT score). She did get accepted at JMU, but her whole family is devastated (father, brother and sister all went to Tech).</p>
<p>Wow! Really amazing. Another kid who has to regroup.</p>
<p>One of the things in the article that struck me:</p>
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[quote]
But the higher out-of-state tuition, $8,693 this year at JMU compared with $3,333 for in-state students, helps pay faculty salaries as the state government grapples with lean budgets amid a difficult economy.
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<p>That seemed low to me, so I checked the JMU website. The figures are per semester:</p>
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[quote]
The competition for spaces in state universities is also intensifying. "I believe the downturn in the economy this year has made public schools hotter than ever," said New York-based educational consultant William Short.
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<p>Just anecdotally I can say this is true. My daughter's college, Pitt, has a waiting list this year, whereas last year Pitt was on the NACAC list as having seats available after May 10.</p>
<p>Popularity of publics are higher, probably because of a combination of downturn in the economy and schools just increases COA tuition to a point where their bubble is about to burst. Sure the truly rich can always pay, but the middle class and upper middle class family just has trouble making that $200,000 commitment for each of their children. Many of these families are getting loans and work study and gaps in their financial packages with too little in the form of grants. JMO.</p>
<p>Northeastmom, I think you are exactly right. The incredibly high tuition is killing the middle class. If you combine this with tougher financing rules and an economic downturn, many kids are opting for the much less expensive state university route. Frankly, in my opinion, it's about time.</p>
<p>For our own middle class family many of the OOS publics have also passed the threshold that we feel we can afford, keeping in mind that publics will not necessarily offer much financial assistance to OOS students. We will be casting a wider geographical net with our younger child when applying to schools, hoping for something that we feel we can afford. If not, we will have our instate public safeties I guess.</p>
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<p>Popularity of publics are higher, probably because of a combination of downturn in the economy and schools just increases COA tuition to a point where their bubble is about to burst.<<</p>
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<p>I think that's what we are seeing here in CA. There was an article posted on CC from the Sacramento Bee, quoting a GC in CA saying that the number of UC rejections (and I'm not talking about UCLA and Berkeley, which are always tough) are just shocking this year. Applications have sky-rocketed, competition has gotten tougher.</p>
<p>I was shocked when I heard my niece, also from a public school in NOVA, did not get into JMU. Virginia Tech was her first choice in any case, and she was admitted there, so she is happy. I don't know her exact stats, but I know she is very good student, SAT prob. between 1900-2000, APs, athlete</p>
<p>Does it seem like they are doing some geographic management?</p>
<p>Naviance data from my D's out of state independent high school indicated 83% of a rather large number of applicants got in there this year (JMU is a popular OOS choice at this school)- granted, this is a very competetive independent high schoool, but still.</p>
<p>Maybe a little yield mgmt, and wanting to pull students from all over Virginia, and sticking to a certain percent of students from out of state?</p>
<p>I saw your thread on the JMU forum. Very interesting article to read; thanks for posting it taxguy. I keep an eye on the VT forum, too, and was amazed earlier in the month to see so many qualified kids from NOVA getting rejected or waitlisted from VT, too. It does seem that being from a Northern Virginia geographical school can put them are at a disadvantage. There were two NOVA kids who posted who had 3.4's and one with 30 on the ACTs and the other with 2080 on their SATs, one had 6 APs, 4 Honors....One said that they were told that the average GPA for students getting into Tech from their NOVA school was 3.76. </p>
<p>As I said in a reply in the JMU forum, I feel Virginia's state schools should consider following NC's lead and reduce their allowance of OOS admits from the 30-35% to approx. 20%. I really appreciate the way the North Carolina legislature supports its tax paying citizens by the way they handle admittance to their higher level education institutions. Virginia's schools, like North Carolina's, are so strong, many, many kids want to stay in state and should be able to if they have worked hard enough.</p>
<p>northeastmom, i also have concerns about oos publics. there are some that are seeking oos students and some that are not. does anyone have a listing that might help us parents? sometimes you'll see that oos schools in states that are contiguous to your own home state may seek to draw students to their schools. there are also some exchange programs that give breaks to students that are from certain participating states.</p>
<p>The fact that the boy's GPA has been "4.1" for his junior and senior years implies (unless they have A+ grade of more than 4.0) that this is a weighted GPA. Therefore, his first two years of high school had a weighted GPA of 3.0, so during these two years he had worse average grades than straight B's (and/or he took no honors classes). This is not academically very strong. He certainly had an extremely strong SAT score relative to JMU, and probably should have been accepted, but he did not have very good grades.</p>
<p>It sounds like whatever problems this young man had in his first two years have likely been resolved. If he can tough it out another year and continue to get good grades at a community college, then he will be able to transfer somewhere. Unfortunately, two years of mediocre grades in high school adversely affects your college acceptances.</p>
<p>However, I definitely have empathy for the parents, many of whom have financially sacrificed to get their kids into the northern Vriginia schools only to have that decision somewhat hurt them when applying for college.</p>
<p>Does the geographical distribution for Virginia colleges depend on where you attended high school or where your parents live or what? Perhaps this boy should attend community college in some poorer area of Virginia, if he wants to optimize his chances for transferring to Virginia Tech, UVa, or JMU. Would this help?</p>
<p>We in Northern VA definitely think there is a disadvantage for our kids in the IS admissions process. As a taxpayer of the Commonwealth, I have less of a problem about "my kid's spot" going to someone from Roanoke or Bluefield County vs an OOSer. I really believe that the VA gov't should legislate a cap on OOS admissions as does North Carolina. UNC-Chapel Hill does not suffer academically despite limiting OOS to 18%.</p>
<p>Fairfax County does not weight honors classes for the GPA. AP/IBs get an extra .5 added. Additionally, FCPS has extremely high cuts for the grades themselves.
A = 94-100
B+ = 90-94
B = 84-90 etc.</p>
<p>The state CC's do have a near-automatic transfer program to the flagship publics if the student achieves a certain GPA in certain coursework.</p>
<p>This is the 2nd Class of '08 kid from Robinson that I have heard about this year who had a seeming disconnect between the student record and the admissions results.</p>
<p>Perhaps I'm a little harsh, but of those excuses, the only one that Adcoms might make allowances for is mono, but that should only affect one semester's grades, not two years' worth. Unfortunately, many kids experience the loss of grandparents, and these were great-grandparents, and many kids have friends with 'problems.' Part of growing up is a balancing act, and his test scores shows he's extremely bright.</p>
<p>btw: The UCs also practice geographic diversity in Calif.</p>
<p>If Virginia schools were to change the percentage of OOS students then please be prepared for a significant increase in tuition for instate. It may be a price all are willing to pay. But OOS students at W&M, at least, pay almost 3x as much in state for tuition. I would guess those extra dollars are not taken lightly.</p>
<p>This ultimately helps the whole VA system. As the population and applicant numbers increase then, students who normally would be going to W&M or U-Va trickle down to JMU or Va Tech. This trickle down then also helps the Longwood/Radford/ODU/VCU et al. Over time all the schools increase in student quality. Tough transition for families today tough.</p>
<p>Here in NJ the VA schools are popular. I know local NJ students attending JMU and VA Tech who aren't close to this NoVA kid in stats...One girl in particular, know the parents well, had about 1100 m & v and decent grades but definitely outside top 10% and no APs; she's is a freshman at JMU.</p>