<p>there's a lively discussion on the harvard parent thread about visitas; some parents are saying that their pre-frosh children felt things were not at all welcoming or that current students were disengaged/too busy with work. in response, some have said that visitas is a good representation of life at harvard. here's the link:</p>
<p>one pre-frosh parent said (my apologies. i don't know how to block indent quotes on this):</p>
<p>"Smoda, Please do not misunderstand me, I am fully aware of the workload, prior committments, and the difficulty that housing a stranger can place on an already overworked student. I am just reacting to the few posts where moms commented that their children felt that their housers "ditched them" locked them out, or were put out by them being there, etc. And yes I did think you meant this past weekend.
I have read this type of thing in posts over the past few years and it is a frequent topic on CC when Pre-frosh weekend comes around. Carmelkisses is right, most kids would rather go out and meet other pre-frosh students and take advantage of what the school has to offer and if you are not that kind of kid then maybe Harvard is not for you.
I am not suggesting that the housing student entertain the pre-frosh all weekend. BUT I do think that there are certain things a hosting student can do in 10 or 15 minutes to make a pre-frosh feel welcome and to start things off on the right foot. Communication is a big Key "Hey Welcome to Harvard, I know you will love it here. I have a huge thing this weekend and will be super busy but let me show you where a few things are and some people you can contact if you can't reach me....etc..."
A little effort goes a long way and I do think that sometimes students need to be given a bit of guidance on how to do it (they may get it, don't know). Hospitality does not come naturally for some people so sometimes we need reminders. I also think that kids that who are attending pre-frosh should be mindful that their host students do have their plates full and be respectful guests. Maybe Harvard should give them some guidelines as well. Its a two way street. </p>
<p>Finally, I hope that all of the kids enjoyed their weekend in the end. I really believe that we all have different likes and dislikes and ultimately all the students will choose the school that feels right for them. "</p>
<p>and then one alum said:</p>
<p>"Hey Parents! An alum here, chiming in on the pre-frosh hosting issue: I actually think that, to some degree, the experience of Admitted Students Weekend is a fair reflection of the culture of the college. This isn't to say that mean or unwelcoming hosts are the norm at all, because they aren't, but hosts really aren't expected (or necessarily encouraged!) to do more than provide a place for pre-frosh to drop off their things and lay their head at night." </p>
<p>any reaction from pre-frosh at visitas or current students?</p>
<p>Personally, I really enjoyed my time at Visitas. I saw some familiar faces from CC and enjoyed catching up with an old friend who is a current freshman. Yardfest was insane, and the classes were challenging. </p>
<p>That being said, I did take issue with a couple things.
First of all, I had a unique situation in that I arrived in the middle of the weekend. This made it REALLY difficult to make friends with other prefrosh as it seemed like everyone had already grouped off. I would have appreciated it had my host had found a way to introduce me to the other prefrosh she was hosting or something.
Second of all, I know that several hosts were drunk throughout sunday evening and even drinking in front of prefrosh. I understand that Yardfest was this weekend, and I know that is a big deal to Harvard students, but that… just isn’t okay. I know that I was uncomfortable with this, and I know a girl who actually left because of it. I understand that drinking goes on at Harvard and am fine with that, but when the person who is drunk is supposed to be responsible for letting me into the place I need to sleep or shower, I’m not really pleased.
I didn’t expect to be coddled, but I would have liked to have someone around to help with directions, let me into the dorm restrooms, and to let me change after yardfest (Mud… EVERYWHERE.) Instead, whenever I needed something, I ended up in the dorms of other freshmen.</p>
<p>I feel like had I not had freshman friends already (and an INCREDIBLE freshman from my homestate who got my number from admissions and hung out with me for an hour and a half or so) I would have come away from the weekend discouraged and second guessing my decision to matriculate. </p>
<p>That being said, I did have a fantastic time with the people mentioned above, and I had a fantastic weekend overall, but I didn’t get the “prefrosh” experience. I know this is partially my fault; I arrived at an awkward time, and the pre-formed groups intimidated me to the point that I had trouble introducing myself. Nevertheless, I feel like my experiecne would have been better had their been more guidelines set out for the hosts and a little more guidance given by the hosts.</p>
<p>What!! Y’all must have not been at the Princeton Preview… the hosts there basically just said “hi” and went out shopping.</p>
<p>Visitas, on the other hand, I absolutely loved. The hosts were so welcoming and eager to answer questions and wanted to interact with the prefrosh. I didn’t feel neglected at all. I felt so at-home and I really think the people there were able to convince me that Harvard is the school for me.</p>
<p>As for the drinking/partying, I thought it showed a side of Harvard students that most people wouldn’t expect. But it’s all a healthy part of college life. It’s bound to exist anywhere so don’t be so put off by it.</p>
<p>Anyways, I’m one prefrosh who loved Visitas. I was disappointed with the campus (especially after going straight from Princeton) but Visitas really tipped the scale for me. I’m going to Harvard.</p>
<p>As a parent who was around --from a distance from my S–when he saw me at Sunday brunch at Anneberg-- he came up and gave me a hug (!!!) and then said–“what are you doing here?” “A guy has
to eat” “Suppose so…well. gotta run, bye…”…He had a huge smile on his face–in the car home on Monday night he couldn’t stop talking about-- well, everything. His host was apologetic but he just got promoted to the varsity for baseball and they had a couple of double-headers-but other frosh in the entryway took over and he got to know a whole lot of pre-frosh and freshmen. He went to the Activities fair (I really hope I don’t get Quadded, Dad-- that is FAR…)and even though the group he wanted purposely did NOT have a table, he was able to find Poonsters who then took him back to the Castle…he even was given his first “task”-- which decorum requires me not to print–which he carried out much to the delight to the Poonster who liked a piece of writing he had with him (needs to be punched up, I’ll send you edits). When my S said that he would absolutely be comping and that he was going to take Math 55-- one of the others in the Castle pulled out $3 he had in his pocket and said, “Here, take this and spend it wisely. By wisely, I mean Red Bull…”</p>
<p>He made his way back to where-ever one goes to do this and said to the Admissions person-- sign me up. He told me that he didn’t meet anyone who either hadn’t done that or was going to do that this week. (BTW he did sit in 55 and said – “Well, I could follow the first 3 lines and then the conclusion, but the middle–I have a LOT to learn.”)</p>
<p>I’m sure there must have been people for whom Visitas didn’t work, but then there are probably people for whom Harvard isn’t the right fit. Everything, and everyone, gets sorted out properly in the end–more or less.</p>
<p>D loved Visitas. She agreed, however, that the kids who enjoyed it the most were probably the more outgoing type. The ones who were able to find groups to roam and explore with. She was happy to have the independence to do and see what she wanted instead of being attached to a host all weekend. She was together with a group of cross-admits from the MIT, Yale and Princeton admit weekends and also had a few friends already attending Harvard, so she did not feel neglected or lonely.</p>
<p>For better or for worse, any prospective student’s impression of a visit to any campus is going to be colored by the luck of the draw as to the tiny proportion of the current students who they meet. My D1 found her tribe at Prefrosh (now Visitas) and had a magical time. D2 didn’t click at all with her hosts or find many other prospective students to meet, so she went and hung out with D1 and had fun chilling out with her friends. Otherwise, she’d have probably come back less enthused.</p>
<p>I had a great time at Visitas, but I agree with aleader about the drinking thing. I saw my host about four or five times over the course of the weekend, and the only time he was sober was when I first dropped my stuff off at his dorm. I was concerned at first, but I quickly found another freshman in the suite who seemed much more dependable, and I called him instead whenever I needed to be let in. However, one time when I came back to get my coat out of the common room, there were maybe 15 Harvard students sitting there, all drinking. Beer had been spilled on my pillow, and my coat had been pushed into a corner and was covered with dust/dirt. It wasn’t a huge deal, but it was a fairly uncomfortable situation.</p>
<p>I think Harvard would have benefited from making Visitas just Sunday and Monday, or even Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. For me at least, having the majority of the visit be during the weekend was frustrating. Social scene is a factor and definitely a huge part of the culture on campus, but I feel like I only needed one day to evaluate that. I think Yardfest alone would have convinced prefrosh that Harvard students can party just as hard as they work. I wish that I could have spent more time visiting classes and sitting in on student/faculty panels because as much as I like to have fun, I’m ultimately going to choose a school based on academics.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, I had a great time at Visitas. It just wasn’t what I would consider the ideal prefrosh program. That said, I’m still definitely considering Harvard, and I don’t think any of the minor problems I ran into this weekend will affect my decision.</p>
<p>Exultationsy’s proposed list of guidelines for all involved in Visitas next year:</p>
<p>Hosts:
-Be respectful and welcoming.
-If you are going to be drinking, find a friend or entrywaymate who is unlikely to be, and can take responsibility for letting your prefrosh in and out. (Or leave a key in the door.)
-Spend at least a few minutes talking to your prefrosh.
-Be able to recommend a few classes for them to shop.</p>
<p>Prefrosh:
-Be respectful and polite. Thank you goes a long way.
-Bring a sleeping bag. For the love of all that is holy, do not steal one of your host’s other prefrosh’s sleeping bags AFTER your host asked the be-sleeping-bagged prefrosh to move to the floor because you did not bring one.
-Do not tell your prefrosh host she is a bad host because she does not have paper cups.
-Do not tell your prefrosh host to wash your dirty plastic cup. (I obeyed, but only because I was too surprised to do otherwise.)
-Request a freshman host; if you get called by the Asian hosting association or whatever and they ask if you want to be matched with a host of the same race, be aware that they will sometimes assign you to an upperclassman. My advice would be to say “only if they’re a freshman,” but that would just be me.
-Be very, very glad if you call your host, who came from the backup list and didn’t know she was hosting you until she got your call, at 9 in the morning and she comes and picks you up within 15 minutes. Being surly that it took her 15 minutes (of which half was the walk) will probably not endear you to her, especially since you are pretty much just lucky you did not end up with a hungover host.
-Do hang out with other prefrosh. That’s half the point of the visit.
-Do go where’s right for you, money permitting. Where is right for you is not necessarily where you know the most people, or where your older sister goes, or wherever has the biggest name.
-Good luck!</p>
<p>Planners of Visitas:
-Do not put Visitas on Yardfest weekend ever again thank you! Or if you do, at least tell people about the conflict before at least half of hosts had signed up. It worked out for me, but I would not have chosen to host had I known of the conflict before I signed up. (I asked them about it. They said “oh, we think it will make pre-frosh weekend extra fun!” …ok then.)
-Don’t make prefrosh call their hosts the morning they arrive. Receiving a heads-up by email (from you, not them) of said prefroshes’ existence the night before would make things go much more smoothly.</p>
<p>I don’t think ANY school’s admitted students special show is a very accurate reflection of the actually attending the school. Those things are planned, highly-staged events.</p>
<p>You can get a truer picture by doing an overnight stay and going to class with a host student during some time that is NOT part of the special program.</p>
<p>D could not attend the admitted student days for all three schools still on her list so decided to attend none and visit at other times. She’s leaving one school now and will visit Harvard and another soon. These comments are very helpful - thanks to all who have contributed.</p>
<p>Do you really think a class in, say, organic chem or Shakespeare will be all that different at Yale or Stanford or Harvard? Really?-- No, really? With rare exceptions–Math 55 at Harvard or the Core at Chicago or Columbia, these research university classes are full of brilliant kids and brilliant profs. Some are better teachers some are not–at all of the places. Even assuming, arguendo, that you could discern a difference, you would have a “n” of what 0.02 % of classes? What statistical significance would your research have from an academic point of view–none.</p>
<p>If you have just a day DONT GO TO CLASSES-- sit out in the commons, or the dining hall or other public place and listen for the sounds and look at the people-- you will soon have a sense of what the school’s Zeitgeist is all about and whether you fit in. As Fitzsimmons said on Saturday-- don’t chose with your head, chose with your heart. (BTW, almost everyone does use their heart or gut and then glosses over thae choice with “head like” reasons.) </p>
<p>BTW, if you are shocked, shocked that college students even at Harvard, forfend, drink? Boy are you in for some real shocks next year… They also use drugs and have sex. Yep. They are not engaged in “serious study” all of the time. That said Yardfest was not a great idea just because the pre-frosh without a socially cohesive group got left behind. </p>
<p>Oh, and if ever someone ever tells you to wash out his red cup, ever-- tell him or her to get stuffed.</p>
<p>I didn’t enjoy Visitas all that much and I did find groups to roam around with fairly quickly…the fact that I was with some people I was fond of didn’t change the fact that I just didn’t like the school. Yet most of the others in my group fell in love with the school so there is probably some validity to the point you’ve made.</p>
<p>Etondad, I was not at all shocked or disturbed that the general population was drinking. I understand that this goes on at Harvard and every other university. I don’t have a problem with recreational drinking at all.
As I said, I do have a problem with hosts drinking, because prefrosh are relying on hosts for a safe place to stay. Common rooms where prefrosh are staying should not become places for a host’s sorrority sisters to pregame yardfest by slamming back hard liquor, and they did. Any other weekend, sure, but when a prefrosh who has no choice but to sleep on the host’s floor and rely on her to go pee, that’s an uncomfortable situation for everyone. My intoxicated host made some fairly shoddy decisions that made me really uncomfortable spending the evening on her floor. (And as I think I said earlier, another prefrosh in my room actually did end up leaving rather than staying the night…) </p>
<p>Furthermore, I and several other prefrosh I talked to witnessed underaged drinking by our hosts. Again, I know this goes on all the time, and I generally couldn’t care less who drinks and who doesn’t, but I really don’t think that illegal activity is a great way for the university to represent itself to prospective students… but maybe that’s just me. </p>
<p>I don’t think it would be too much to ask hosts to refrain from drunkeness in front of prefrosh. Or even just to refrain from alcohol consumption in front of prefrosh. Or at the very least, to refrain from underaged alcohol consumption in front of prefrosh. I don’t care what they want to do any other weekend, but to me, that just makes sense…</p>
<p>Prefrosh hosts are not expected to drop their social lives for you. If the college enforced strict non-alcohol, non-partying rules upon the volunteer hosts, there would not be enough hosts for all you eager prefrosh. Then you would be complaining that there were not enough slots for you to participate. </p>
<p>If the idea of drinking undergrads was so abhorrent to you, you should have planned to stay in a nearby hotel with your parents.</p>
<p>^^That’s rather harsh. I don’t think many prefrosh can know to expect that their underage Harvard hosts will get drunk as hell during the supposedly school-showcasing time.</p>
<p>So you’d rather the university present itself inauthentically? The truth is that if you pick a Harvard student at random there’s a good chance they drink illegally, or at least they have at some point at Harvard. </p>
<p>I agree that it’s a host’s job to make sure that his/her prefrosh can get into the room (at reasonable frequencies) and have a place to sleep. If drinking prevents a host from doing that, then the host is at fault. However, it’s your job as a social human being to work something out with your host such that they don’t have to put their social lives on hold without leaving you in the cold either. Part of college is interacting with people who make different choices than you, including drinking underage.</p>
<p>Curious, last year numerous professors called daughter, or reached out during Visitas, in sharp contrast to Y/P where D only met other prefrosh or students. This made a big difference to D’s decision. Did prefrosh find professors more accessible at H this year?</p>
<p>To add to exultationsy’s list (though this is not directed at pre-frosh but guests in general and are from a number of past hostings. this year’s pre-frosh were very nice according to D):</p>
<ul>
<li>do eat raid your host’s care package from home. eat an entire package of food without asking and leave a sticky note with “thanks :)” for the host</li>
<li>do not expect to show up a day earlier that expected. your host has already cleared their schedule for the agreed upon period of time</li>
<li>do not try and stay for an additional one or two days after your host has already housed you</li>
<li>do not surprise your host and require him/her to tiptoe past the futon with you and the person you decided to sleep with for the night in the common room</li>
</ul>
<p>and lastly, to the pre-froshman, holding court in the Harvard pajama and underwear section of the coop and regaling them with your accomplishments, please realize that pre-frosh may be wowed but I would tone it down for the upperclassmen who could not care less (you can claim I was eavesdropping but it was hard to not hear you at even 20 feet away - sorry but I have not gotten over it days later)</p>
<p>OMT I agree that holding yardfest the same weekend as Visitas was not a great idea (or at least for the current students). This had not been the case D’s visitas year nor last year. Yardfest is already a mob scene without the possibility of an extra 1400 attendees. I don’t know if D ended up attending, but she was dreading how crowded she expected it to be and was disappointed that she was going to have to deal with this since she was looking forward to at least one of the bands.</p>