Visiting Colleges- Does the order matter?

<p>I just posted some information on the NACAC survey of admissions officers about the importance of visits. Demonstrated interest is neck and neck with extracurriculars in terms of admissions importance. 44% of colleges count a visit to campus as a "plus" factor in the the admissions decision --- 59% of PRIVATE schools and 60% of small schools (under 3000 students) do. Clear message: a visit can be a tip factor, all other things being equal. See my thread "College Admissions tells all" for more details.</p>

<p>We found the weather was a huge factor in how much she liked a school. I think it she had gone to visit during nicer weather her list of schools would be different. </p>

<p>What I also noticed was that she had a hard time leaving behind her preconceived notions as to what she wanted in a school. The schools she actually liked best did not meet her idea in her head as to the type of school she wanted. In the end she did not even apply to the 2 that she liked the best visiting. I think part of the resistant was that Mom and Dad also felt like they were a good fit and that I think was the kiss of death.<br>
Luckily even though she has room for huge growth in maturity she is will adapt easily to almost any academic style.</p>

<p>iderochi, d and I went brain-dead simultaneously because I planned the trip overambitiously and UNC just happened to be the last school on the itinerary. We did 2400 miles in 5 days, including a 10-hour sprint from Nashville to Durham in torrential rain and intense fog - the worst drive of my entire life. We had an 8:30 AM info session/tour at Duke, and our strength just gave out on the drive over to Chapel Hill for the 1:00 PM tour. Of course, by that time we'd had nothing more than gummi worms and granola bars for 36 hours - no time to stop, even at McD's - and we still had to drive to Williamsburg to meet older d that evening. To the list of factors that can have an impact on how well tours go, I'd add "mom is an inept trip planner." One of these days I have got to learn to read a map.</p>

<p>Dear Lord, you drove straight from Nashville to Durham, over the mountains and everything, then thru Carolina (ancestral home of all tractor-trailer trucks!), and I thought my straight through drive was bad.</p>

<p>And when I looked at my Trip-tik, I thought, "Look how nice and straight the route is!" Of course, I also mis-read how many miles it would take to get through the Smoky Mountains (by 100 miles). Maybe you could tell me - when you're down to one lane because of construction, on a twistyturny mountain road where the speed limit is 45 miles per hour and have several 18-wheelers piled up behind you - exactly how much faster than 60 do the truckers expect you to go?</p>

<p>After visiting too many schools, it was almost a relief to have several fall by the wayside for whatever reason, even an artificial one, as long as there were the two or three reasonable choices that really grabbed D's interest. The school that most resonated did so in every context.</p>

<p>Frazzled, on I-40, much faster, much faster. I-40 is continually having problems because of rockslides and collapses over the winter, I drove it a few years ago on a rain slick, moisty day, when there was snow in the higher elevations, I wanted to kiss the ground when we finally stopped. My straight- thru to Duke involved Atlanta and Charlotte, I have never in my life driven with so many trucks.</p>

<p>Agree on I-40 from Nashville to points east. I had to drive from Nashville to Lynchburg, VA for a house closing--9 hours through a pelting rain with trucks everywhere drenching my windshield with spray so dense I could not see 2 feet. Made it to the law office at 4:30 pm just in time to close. I eventually had to tell my wife not to speak to me while I drove or we would die.</p>

<p>Carolyn, I have already posted my opinions on the validity of the report on the NACAC thread. For the sake of clarity, assuming that demonstrated interest is important, could we discuss what constitutes a "demonstration of interest" in the framework of a visit? </p>

<p>Unless I am mistaken, I do not recall many of the schools listed on the first page of USNEWS report to even maintain a list of "interest". Based on posts on CC, the consensus is that the HYPS of this world do not take names during their traveling sessions and do not maintain an attendance log for visits. Again, based on the CC posts, it seems that the practice of paying attention to visitors happens at a select number of LAC. I believe that the highest occurrence is at the schools you described as more feminine -paying tribute to your classification. </p>

<p>So, what does constitute a declaration of interest and could someone show a tremendous amount of interest without visiting, and vice versa? </p>

<p>I know that I am pretty well entrenched in my opinion that "interest factor" is not relevant among the schools that are typically discussed on CC. I doubt that any school with a sub 30% acceptance rate gives a hoot about the level of interest shown by students and parents -which is very different from whom THE SCHOOL shows interest in.</p>

<p>I think that, except for a handful of selective schools with "special" atmosphere, you have to go pretty low on the USNEWS lists to find schools that could use interest as a criteria. </p>

<p>My conclusion is that the visits benefit the students and help make the appropriate choice, but are of little value to boost one's chance of admission unless the student happens to be on the school "preferred" list.</p>

<p>xiggi-
I posted a response to the question of "demonstrated interest" in Carolyn's thread, but I thought I'd copy it here .
"A former adcomm from one of our local, private top 20 Universities (per USNews) made it very clear that they definitely track the number of contacts you have with their school. I think there is a difference between showing interest and being a pest. Signing in at college fairs, local meetings with visiting adcomms etc. is one way, visiting, doing the tour/info session bit, setting up an interview, meeting with department head or faculty member, or even just spending time with the secretary in the office of the department you plan to major in can be noted as well. Not hard to figure that number of contacts generally implies higher level of interest, which leads to higher likelihood of attendance, keeping those all-important yield #'s up." I agree that it is not an issue at all schools, but it is a variable at many, and they don't have to be the third tier schools.</p>

<p>Xiggi, I'm heading over that way and will answer your questions there but if you look at the site for the survey, they have some definitions about what constitutes demonstrated interest, including visits. Demonstrated interest is NOT something that colleges are required to list according to common data set criteria as an admissions factor; US News and the others use data set to get their admissions factors --- so therefore, it does not show.</p>

<p>I agree with the weather having a lot to do with the first impression of a college. Most of our visits were in the summer and fall on beautiful days. But when my daughter absolutely loved her LAC after a visit on a dreary, rainy day I knew it really was a good fit. She jokes about it now, because it seems to rain there a lot!</p>

<p>Jym626, thank you for your post. Despite not being able to identify the school in reference, I have no reason to dispute that anedoctal evidence could support the value of "demonstrated interest". </p>

<p>The questions that beg for an answer remain, "Does it really boost my chances of admission?" and "Is this something everyone should do?"</p>

<p>I remain convinced that a poll on this issue of the first fifty national universities and first fifty LAC listed by USNEWS report will yield an overwhelming majority of ABSOLUTELY NOT, a small number of PROBABLY NOT, and only a handful of YES, IT DOES. </p>

<p>I think that it is pretty logical to believe that any school that "recruits" on a national level will not give great weight to the mere ability of a family to travel for pre-admission purposes. On the other hand, I do not think that it hurts anyone who can afford it to be in contact with the admissions' offices.</p>

<p>I agree that HYP don't bother to track your interest.</p>

<p>But I do think schools not all that far off - and particularly in the LAC category - are tracking this. My son's college counselor was very clear that there were some schools where experience showed that a visit and interview was a MUST; some otherwise well-qualified students were rejected simply because they had not bothered to visit these schools. I remember the following schools being in this category: Wash U, Emory, Vanderbilt, Hamilton, Colby.</p>

<p>Xiggi, again, go back and read the full report - It includes other things besides visits as a way of demonstrating interest. So, I think the numbers may be pretty valid - schools want to know you want them. If they're spending $1500 or more in marketing on each admitted student, doesn't it make sense they'd want to put that money into students who have the greatest likelihood of attending? Demonstrated interest - including visits, admissions contacts, responding to those ubiquitious BRC's in mailings - it all adds up. For instance, I have noticed that the vast majority of schools my daughter receives mailings from ask her to sign in online using a special user name and password "just for her." Obviously, they are tracking the number of times she does so.</p>

<p>For D highlight came during the middle of visits:
1. Early high school - visited parents' (UCLA, USC) and older brother's (UMich) schools - yuk, yuk, and yuk
2. Sophomore year - on a whim decided to take a look at a well-regarded in-state LAC, Whitman. A big WOW for all of us. H and I were personally pained at the thought of a senior thesis. D hopped in the car and said "I can do that!". LAC's were now on the radar.
3. Pre-Junior summer - Berkeley (we kept pushing what we knew - unis), Pomona, CMC, Scripps. Pomona went over well, but she liked CMC better, even for science. Scripps was my fav but she was resisting idea of women's college. After Berkeley she said no more schools over 5-6k undergrad.
4. Junior year - Midwest swing - Oberlin (couldn't wait to get out after the overnight, said there were only 2 kids in the pizza line while the vegan line overflowed). No go at Kenyon either. Thought Vanderbilt academically strong, she met lots of neuroscience majors, however, she kept pointing out every girl that walked by probably had been a cheerleader. WUStL was appealing in that you could get accepted to one school and easily change to another once there and without going through a competitive application process. She thought that she could combine chemisty, engineering, and maybe business. I thought she was nuts. She liked the dorm area a slight distance from the main buildings, and the newer dorms. Northwestern was a no from the get-go. Carleton - another WOW, met every expectation on paper, liked the somewhat spread out campus for a small student body. Like Whitman, admissions office had prepared a packet of info just for her interests. She liked the fall academic calendar (done before Thanksgiving), strong science & math, and study abroad programs. Felt at home on the campus. Intrigued with the idea of flooding the open space in the winter to create 2 ice-rinks that are used until the wee hours of the AM.
5. East tours summer before senior year - she spent a month at Smith in science and engineering program. Very happy with Smith, but was still not thrilled with all female environment. Amherst was too preppy and she hated Mt. Holyoke. Wouldn't get out of the car at Williams. Trekked to Philly for Swarthmore and Haverford. Of the two, Haverford made her more comfortable, perhaps less pressured. She liked that they give chemistry majors a key to the multi-$$$ chemistry building. I had visions that she'd blow it up. Hated Vassar & Poughkeepsie - info session presenter opened the conversation with "It's Tuesday, and this is Vassar". Tufts was attractive. She still couldn't get over the gender issue at Wellesley. Dartmouth had strong possibilities, but the greek scene was not what she wanted to be around. Middlebury became choice #2, nothing had knocked Carleton down yet.
6. Senior September - 2nd visit to Carleton. Done. ED decision made senior year a breeze.</p>

<p>H and I were, and remain, exhausted. Experience of smaller school visits were that west/midwest schools preferred reservations for info/tour sessions and several prepared personal packets. East coast schools basically just said show up.</p>

<p>OK Carolyn, I give...what are BRC's??
And xiggi, as an aside, do you think the fact that the former adcomm from the school I referenced above gave it up after several (I think about 5) years and is now teaching HS Spanish at my younger s's school means anything ;) I hear there is a pretty high burnout rate in the adcomm business. When I was more active in my undergrad alumnae association, it seemed that we frequently saw new faces coming down from the admissions office for the college fairs.</p>

<p>Lol, Carolyn ... you are battling me in two separate threads and I am getting confused. </p>

<p>In this one, I only address the relative merits of VISITS in boosting the chances of admission. I understand that the "demonstrated interest" can take various forms, but it goes beyond the scope of this precise discussion.</p>

<p>BRC = business reply card</p>

<p>Jym626, I am not sure if I will answer your question correctly ...</p>

<ol>
<li><p>What could it mean that the adcom is now teaching SPanish in HS? That would indicate that this gentleman does not seem to believe in earning a lot of money. From what I gather, admissions is a game for young people who can afford it! </p></li>
<li><p>Does the opinion of the adcom/current teacher mean anything? There is no doubt that he knows a lot more than I do -being nothing- about what did happen or is still happening at the school he worked. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>:)</p>