<p>Last month, when we went to visit our D on Family Weekend, she announced that she was thinking of adding a second major in Music Ed to her current Vocal Performance program. We were quite surprised since that option had never even been on the table before.</p>
<p>Since then she's worked her way through the checklist for adding the major, interviewed with the Ed department, and discussed how it works with other students already doing it.</p>
<p>The way Eastman's program works, if she completes the classroom portion in four years, they'll give her a 9th semester to complete her student teaching at no charge. All she'd pay for is housing which is much less expensive in Rochester than other places.</p>
<p>In high school she coached younger barbershop groups and served as the student music director in Sweeny Todd in her senior year. The student music director job wound up being more challenging that she'd first planned due to a difficult pregnancy for the school's choral director. As it turned out, she did a terrific job with difficult music and loved the process of teaching it. </p>
<p>She said that she knows it'll be a good bit of work and that it will cut into her social life, but it will also give her many more options for making a living when she's finished.</p>
<p>We were both impressed that she's thinking that way and, since it doesn't cost any extra, it makes great sense financially. Does anybody see any down side to that plan at all?</p>
<p>don, from personal experience with our own son who was in a five year dual perf/ed pursuit, she may be torn between the two camps, and have a tough deciding which is the course she wants to pursue. Son is foremost a performer, but teaches, but in studio, chamber/ensemble settings, and as summer program faculty not as a k-12 educator. His background in the music ed coursework is a plus, not a minus in this respect. </p>
<p>Personally, I see no detriment unless the added curriculum conflicts with her development as a performer. The fact that she has had prior teaching/mentoring/coaching experience is a plus, but realize that is not necessarily an indicator of how’ll she take to a classroom setting. </p>
<p>PM me if you want some specifics or have questions.</p>
<p>I think it’s great, Don! She is a bright young woman who has thought it all out and who has done the legwork to get things rolling. You should be very proud of her!</p>
<p>It depends on when she wants to start working as a music teacher, where she plans to teach and what that state’s certification requirement is.</p>
<p>D is also a VP major. She will graduate in 4 years and if she plans to pursue Music Ed, she will do it full-time on a graduate level that will require her to go to school 1 year straight (including 2 summers.)</p>
<p>This would allow her to be purely a voice major on the undergraduate level. She will take all her ed requirements and do her practicum (student teaching) on a graduate level.</p>
<p>With your daughter’s plan, she will be able to teach full time beginning February, having earned her undergraduate dual degree. With my D’ s plan, she will be able to teach full time the following September with her graduate degree (BM, MS music ed). She will enter into the market at a higher salary level and will have completed her master’s degree which is required within 5 years of teaching in NY State.</p>
<p>It may be that the master’s degree is not required in the state yoiur D plans to teach. But it may be that she will have to wait for September to work anyway, therefore it may pay to have her spend the year following graduation pursuing the grad degree in music ed.</p>
<p>I’m not sure there is any state that requires a masters degree for beginning teachers. BUT there are many that require a masters within a certain number of years of starting teaching.</p>
<p>One added thing…in many public school districts (if one gets a teaching job after their bachelors), the school district actually reimburses for a portion of the costs of pursuing that advanced degree. That is also a plus for some.</p>
<p>To the OP…it sounds like your daughter has thought through this herself. As Violadad pointed out, she may be torn at some point, but if she is, it sounds like she will be well prepared to make another decision if needed.</p>
<p>The fact that your D has self-initiated this plan and is eager to carry it out is a huge point in its favor, I think. It’s far different than deciding in the abstract what is the best route to an education job. She has had a good look by now at Eastman’s program and it’s Eastman’s program she wants to pursue. It’s not costing any extra money. At her age she has plenty of time. As long as she can handle it along with performance (and she will have to find this out by trying), why not?</p>
<p>Hi! Just to clarify…I don’t think your D’s plan is in any way a bad plan, either. And I agree that the fact that she has worked it out already is a definite plus. </p>
<p>I was offering the “downside” as you had asked for in your post to show that there is an alternative with its own set of pluses and minuses. I think it is always good to have a plan “B”, and if your daughter would struggle to do both music ed and performance at an undergrad level in 4 1/2 years, she would certainly have the option of doing it on the grad level and will end up not far behind in terms of attaining her first teaching job.</p>
<p>Pennsylvania, where we live, doesn’t require a Master’s to teach. My understanding is that NY does.</p>
<p>The fact that she thought of, thought through, and has done all the leg work to follow this path is the part that makes me the most happy. I’m so proud of the way she’s shown that she can handle things. It’s not that I didn’t think she could, I’m just glad to see that I was right about that!</p>
<p>There are a LOT of new teachers in NY state who do not have masters degrees. They DO need to get a masters within a certain number of years, but unless something changed recently, they don’t have to have one to teach in the state initially.</p>
<p>HOWEVER…check the NY Department of Education website for certification requirements. They should be there.</p>
<p>Son has a peer (BM '07) who started teaching in the NYC public system beginning academic year -07-08. He didn’t have a masters, so like thump said unless things have changed, a masters is not an initial requirement for NY certification.</p>
<p>Masters is definitely not required to start teaching in NY. One big advantage I see is that Don’s daughter will have half a school year to substitute teach, and 1) make a little money and 2) really decide if she likes it before deciding which grad. degree to pursue.</p>
<p>I am a teacher in NY State. I agree that having a master’s is not a requirement to get an initial teaching position. However, a master’s is required within 5 years of initial certification.</p>
<p>As someone who teaches on Long Island, I will say that jobs are in high demand in the suburbs of NYC and in reality many school districts have their choice of candidates. Therefore, they will usually select candidates who have teaching experience and/ or graduate degrees only. Many teachers chose to come to Long Island and Westchester from the city and give up their NYC tenure in the process.</p>
<p>Therefore, a lot of students end up doing accelerated Master’s programs in order to complete this requirement and to make themselves more marketable.</p>
<p>This set of circumstances may not apply to Don9992’s daughter at all. But for those who are performance majors, doing a master’s in music ed is still a good option. It especially makes sense over doing a 5 year dual BS/BM degree that some schools offer.</p>
<p>I find an inherent problem with this entire line of thinking when it comes to band or orchestra classes on the K-12 level being taught by a performance major with a MM.
When you take a Bachelor degree in Music Ed for a band or orchestra track you are required to take music “tech” classes in band instruments, woodwind instruments, string instruments. Our school system has one teacher with a perf degree in trumpet and a MM in music ed and as far as i can see the guy is completely worthless when it comes to helping a student get any better on his/her instrument. He can offer broad advice but cannot set an example and he knows almost nothing about the capabilities of other instruments. He is a fine trumpet player and we have a pretty good jazz band I guess but aside from that he’s carried along by the other music teachers for everything else.</p>
<p>The whole line of thinking that performance majors can teach outside their specific instrument, conduct and deal with the problems of K-12 students really bothers me. Is it OK for a guy who does home framework to teach architecture ? Granted that in voice or general music classes the cross-over might be easier to understand but in actually teaching the rudiments of playing lets not get ahead of ourselves in thinking that a performance major in flute can somehow teach trumpet miraculously or conduct a band or deal with a classroom of students in general.</p>
<p>I don’t fully understand your post. The graduate degree that I am referring to is either an MA or MS degree in Music Ed. The master’s degree programs in Music Ed that I have researched all have the components you are talking about. They do have coursework in all instruments. They accept students with all undergraduate degrees in music and will have different tracks based on what the student has taken on an undergrad level. For example, someone getting the MS in Music Ed who has taken ed courses on an undergraduate level may be able to get their master’s in 30 or 36 credits. Someone without ed classes may need to take 45 or 48 credits in order to make up any deficiency. Either will be fully prepared to teach.</p>
<p>I did not have any undergraduate education credits when I pursued by MS in education. The only requirement was a BS/BA degree and a certain number of engish, science, language classes,etc. If you did not meet those requirements–let’s say you got a bachelor’s but did not take language in college, you would need to take those classes before you were rewarded the master’s.</p>
<p>My degree track was 45 credits of graduate course work for non-ed undergraduate students. There was another track that awarded a master’s in elementary ed that required only 30 grad credits. </p>
<p>We both ended up with the same graduate degree in elementary ed and were equally prepared to be good teachers. I believe the graduate Music Ed programs I am referring to are designed in the same way.</p>
<p>I think I see where you’re coming from, sagiter, but my D is a vocalist. In some cases an equivalent issue could come into play in ensemble situations since a lot of VP majors make lousy choral singers (blending isn’t in their nature), but in my d’s case, she’s sung choral music since she was 9 and it’s as much a part of her musical psyche as solo singing.</p>
<p>Actually I have also checked the requirements from several MM/MS degrees and there is no where near the proficiency required in a masters degree and truth is it is impossible for what you are claiming to be the case. Music ed BM students are required in most instances to take a full year in brass, a full year in woodwinds and the same in strings, there are percussion requirements as well as 4 years juried keyboarding classes, conducting, etc., this along with the standard other requirements in teaching such as psych classes and the like, etc. This just doesn’t appear to be required on the masters level. Music is not science and english, it’s actually far more complex in my opinion.</p>
<p>A Masters is really meant to focus on a specific area, it’s not near as encompassing as 4 years of specialized study on an undergrad level which is then coupled with a Masters.</p>
<p>I think what you are saying is true to the extent that most vocalists, whether they were performance majors or had voice as their “instrument” as a music ed major, would not be qualified to be the orchestra or band teacher on a middle or high school level. Just as a trumpet major woudl not feel qualified to teach high school choir. The certification is the same, but the specialty is not.</p>
<p>All would probably be able to teach more general music classes on an elementary level.</p>
<p>Yes, it seems when conversation turns to performance majors getting a Masters in Music Ed, that’s good enough to be a “music teacher K-12” and I don’t believe that with the exceptions of vocal or general music ed that’s enough at all. Whether the state education folks think that’s good enough or not doesn’t mean that the kids won’t get short changed in some instances.</p>