Vocal Performance Grad School complete, what worked, what was good, what we learned

My daughter just completed her vocal performance masters. It has definitely been a family endeavor. After a summer program, my daughter will begin a young artists program for the next 2 years, which was her ultimate goal.

Looking back on what I see as the major contributors to the journey, I would say these things have been most important:

  1. Her teachers in both undergrad and grad school
  2. high school and college summer programs for making connections and establishing your name early on
  3. resilience b/c disappointment happens

Other parents who have gone through the entire process, what would you share that you now know?

I am happy to answer questions, and share information regarding the journey.
It does happen, they graduate one day!

(I did not see another thread like this out there, so if there is, please let me know where!)

@CurlyMom Congrats! Getting a 2 year YAP is quite the accomplishment but yes it does happen. My D has had a handful of friends do it too.

My D graduated last year and while she has not gotten a long-term YAP, she did a short-term one for 4 months late last year. She did not begin auditions until fall as her teacher thought she was still a bit “in development” and may want to wait into the fall. So I agree with your comments particularly #3.

My D also has a strong interest in theater so she has been able to get hired, quite easily, by a variety of companies - always about 6 months out - and is very much enjoying being a “working artist”. And it allows her to continue voice study and to do regional shorter, opera programs. The tough thing seems to be “knitting” the opportunities together and being able to audition while performing elsewhere. Once she got the short-term YAP she did have to cancel a few auditions for the next year so that was a bit tough. Still she feels like her voice grew a lot this year so she said the cancellations may have been OK since she can try a year later with a stronger voice. It has also increased her confidence in getting hired in theater and supporting herself. So she feels less pressure for YAP programs to still be a performer.

So for the transition into the real world, you do need to be: flexible, persistent and able to juggle a lot of balls. Also being able to keep rejections in perspective is helpful. My D has had a lot of rejection this year as she tries to figure out what she can get hired for (and for how much). But she took it as a learning experience (mostly) and has been finding her niche so to speak. I’m not sure my D will be an “opera singer” but I am sure she’ll be a “performer who sings”. More than a “scary” time, it’s truly been a very educational year and she’s quite proud of herself.

Congrats again! And best of luck to her in the next 2 years. And for anyone not getting a YAP right after college, it can be a very good year too.

@bridgenail sounds like your daughter is finding her way too, congratulations to you! Your daughters success is exciting especially since she is branching over to theater as well! Isn’t it the best to see them off and doing what they love? That is the biggest payoff for me as a parent, knowing that my daughter is pursuing what makes her happy.

Most of these graduates ARE young, and need more time for their voice to develop unless they are auditioning for people who know them and know what they are capable of already, know their work ethic. I would say that is where the summer programs/establishing your name really comes in. My daughter definitely saw at auditions for the young artist programs (the huge centralized audition that happens in NY) that she IS in fact young in the industry. And the big audition thing with hundreds of people vying for limited spots was a little overwhelming. Anyone doing that for the first time should be mentally prepared for the cut throat atmosphere that may not have been present in college and at summer program auditions. She said it was really crazy! The saving grace was that other people she knew were in town for the same thing, and seeing them, having coffee/dinner with them was a great thing.

The other thing to be prepared for is the travel for auditions. The big audition in New York helped because many programs were all in one place, but there were others she had to travel to other cities for, and airfare, food, uber/transporation and hotel gets expensive. We found, though, she usually knew someone where she was going and could at least sleep on a floor somewhere in most cases (Target sells air mattresses in all cities!), or share a hotel with someone else who is going to be there as well.

Do you think we could expand this thread to include instrumental performance and composers, as well? Or better to start a separate thread?

My D has gone to NYC several times this year and always stays with friends. And at a few of the other locations, she always had a place to crash. It has really been fun for her. Logistically it’s been pretty crazy but she handles it well…and has told me she has gotten better about tuning out all the “noise” in NYC. I think finding other performance outlets takes the pressure off her a bit. She did not do any big centralized audition. But she did get invited for a few auditions and got one offer (where yes there was a contact)…then had to cancel some auditions for next year…that did frustrate her. Still she’s booked with work through next Jan so she’s happy…making me happy!

And for the general reader, yes those crazy audition schedules are for a reason. Some day your kid will be doing them alone.

@glassharmonica I think it’s fine to expand it as it might be short otherwise!

@glassharmonica I don’t see why not, whatever you think is best as I know you are a long timer here.
:slight_smile:

Composers tend to go for doctorates, with some exceptions, so not done yet!

My daughter’s a string player; she finished her MM degree in 2016. One question for instrumentalists is whether to go for the relative security of an orchestra job, or to try to make it in the freelance world, which means multiple income streams, a hectic and variable schedule, higher taxes (lots of 1099 income), and buying your own health insurance. My daughter has always leaned towards the latter, even though she’s a precise enough player to have a shot at a decent job. (She has won and played principal positions throughout college and grad school.) The summer before she graduated she attended a European summer orchestra festival where she was principal for several cycles and had the opportunity to work with many of the finest conductors in the world; it was a lot of fun, but the experience convinced her that she did not want to pursue an orchestra career. She feels a strong need for musical expression and the kind of self-determination that is not possible if you’re a [highly paid, with great benefits] orchestral musician like many of her friends have become. This was a bittersweet announcement for me because I’d love her to have job security. But, what I want most is for her to be happy and fulfilled. So her whole family has always been 100% behind her decision to be a full-time freelancer.

What’s it look like two years out? She works very hard, always hustling, but luck and connections are always a factor. She has cobbled together some good long-term gigs, and some high level (although not always lucrative) ensemble appointments, along with some solo gigs, chamber gigs, a little bit of part-time orchestral work, plus some private teaching. Here, with somewhat vague descriptors, are what she’s up to:

  1. She just finished her second year as a teaching artist at an orchestra in her city. This means that she is a trained fellow in a well-developed program that brings music to public schools. She has a permanent assignment at a school where she teaches 4-5 classes every week; with luck, she will be assigned a second school next year. There is also a performance element to the job. It’s a wonderful gig—everything is compensated, including workshops and meetings for professional development. She’s learned a lot about teaching through this job and the workshops and meetings.

  2. She co-founded a chamber ensemble that fortunately has professional management. They toured various parts of the US several times this year playing on chamber music series; for 2018-19 they have about 30 dates so far and some international tours in the works. The ensemble is time-consuming, as she does most of personnel management. The professional manager handles booking and tour details, but it’s a large ensemble with a lot of moving parts. She plays in several other small chamber groups, somewhat less compensated, but phenomenal, in terms of musicianship. She also does a lot of gigging, ranging from weddings and background music to subs in various orchestras and other chamber groups. She’s a member of a couple full-size orchestras (with small seasons, 3-4 concerts/year) and a chamber orchestra that also tours, with some international dates TBD. She received (by audition) a chamber fellowship that is supported by three institutions in the city–this will effectively double her income for the next two seasons and also provide health insurance. There will be some high profile performances and professional development. The fellowship lasts for two years; then, back to the drawing board, presumably with new connections. As of now, she probably has the most complex working life of anyone I know.

  3. This year she taught at an arts charter school, which meant daily 1-hour commutes to teach a 1-hour group class to middle-school age beginners. She’s leaving that job, mostly because she will be too busy with her other freelance work.

  4. She also has private students. Most are preteen kids of well-to-do families who are not particularly serious about music, unfortunately, although there are some notable exceptions–one of her best students did well at YoungArts, won a prestigious concerto competition, and was admitted to almost every top conservatory he auditioned. She is working on strategies to get more high-level students; hopefully at some point she can be faculty at a precollege. This summer she’s teaching at a program for gifted students ages 9-13. It’s a new division of a summer program she attended when she was in high school. She also teaches at a community chamber music program founded with friends several years back in New England. And she’ll be in Europe for 3 weeks at a performance/chamber festival as a student/fellow.

  5. She continues to seek out lessons from mentors, new and old. There’s nothing wrong with contacting a performer or teacher you admire and asking for an a la carte lesson. The worst think that can happen is they’ll say “no”.

We have not supported her financially since undergrad—but she’s not rolling in money. She lives frugally, in a shared apartment far uptown, without a doorman, central air, gym, and other amenities that some would find necessary. Even with two degrees from a famous conservatory and a resume that seems quite full, she is earning less than the average US college 2018 college grad. She’ll probably play 60-70 concerts next year, with a lot of traveling and several international tours, on top of teaching and admin work holding all this together. And of course continual rehearsing and practicing—and that is exhausting. I’m curious how sustainable this life is. Over the past two years she’s had a tendency to accept most offers, except when there is a time conflict. She is slowly learning not to take on everything, even though it is hard to give up an opportunity. And she’s beginning to understand that she needs to take some time to recharge. She turned down an offer from a wonderful festival in early summer because she realized she needed to come home and relax with family for a couple of weeks, just to get her wind back.

Another thing—most of her best opportunities have come from a combination of hard work and the connections she made from being in the same city for the past 8 years. (As well as from the web of connections at festivals, etc.) I can’t stress enough the importance of connections for freelancers. If she were an orchestral player, the connections and location would be far less critical. You win an audition by playing with a phenomenal technique, but you succeed as a freelancer by being known in the circle where you want to be hired. Several of the opportunities that have come to her were offered directly because she was recommended by a colleague or mentor, not through an application process. One of her teachers told her that there are three important qualities for a freelancer: 1) being a good player; 2) showing up on time (which means early); 3) being easy to work with. He said if you have two of these three qualities you will always have work. I talked to a friend of hers who does a lot of (very lucrative) playing with Broadway shows. (This is the kind of playing my daughter would not enjoy, but many of her friends love it.) I asked what her audition process was, and she told me she did not audition; she was called directly because of connections.

My above comment was too ridiculously long and over the character limit for a post, so I’m adding the coda here:

So my takeaways/advice for future freelancers: 1) consider what city you want to put down roots in when you apply to grad school; 2) be prepared to hustle and be very organized/prompt/easy to work with–your reputation is important 3) be generous to everyone, including anyone you might perceive as a rival, if only because your peers will call you to sub for them when they are injured/ill/double-booked, and vice-versa; and you will be working with them in ensembles 4) make time in your life for self-care, including adequate sleep, decent food, rest, exercise, and even fun. 5) don’t stop practicing (a surprising number of musicians seem to do this after graduation). Keep up those chops, and keep taking lessons, when you can. Keep growing as an artist. Also: don’t be “passive talent.” Yes, you can be hired as a permanent ensemble member or a sub or gigger, but you can also make your own work happen. Take charge by founding an ensemble, or creating a series, or founding a school or festival (many of her friends have done these things.) You learn so much by being a leader/director/creator, and you make a serious contribution to the arts.

@glassharmonica Your comments were not too long for me. In fact you may have just explained my D! This comment in particular strikes home:

She feels a strong need for musical expression and the kind of self-determination that is not possible if you’re a [highly paid, with great benefits] orchestral musician like many of her friends have become. This was a bittersweet announcement for me because I’d love her to have job security. But, what I want most is for her to be happy and fulfilled. So her whole family has always been 100% behind her decision to be a full-time freelancer.

Because I have not seen another musical parent express what my D continues to do and say (a bit since she keeps her thoughts fairly private as she works like “a mad scientist on her life as a performer”), it was refreshing for me to read this. My D chafes against the performance/creative style of opera often (but not always). She seems to NEED a more varied path to be happy. I think she would like to flip back and forth between the two styles (opera/theater) but at the highest level that rarely works. But at a middle level…maybe…

In college, there are plenty of opportunities with professionals to figure out…HOW you want to perform music. There can be a strong current towards the ultimate goals in the early years (like YAPs for opera singers). Of course, there are those who are “locked and loaded” for opera performance and greatly enjoy it. However, the current become more defused later in studies with kids going in a variety of directions (some musical and some not). I have seen many vocalists go in different, interesting directions based on their passions and experience in college. So parents should be aware that there are MANY paths after school. But…in all honestly…the pay is definitely a “toe nail curler”.

My D is a good year behind yours as she literally “flings” herself about…trying to figure out what will work and not. But she’s learning. And she just “nabbed” her first student. My D’s piano skills are not great but she said she is managing with her first student fine. I too wonder how sustainable her lifestyle is…but I also have faith she’ll figure it out…and she is very happy and driven now…and her voice is growing. She did say to me recently…“who knew it would take leaving college for my voice to really grow.” She said that she thinks it’s because she’s happy and growing in confidence that she can find opportunities and support herself as a performer. Also she’s just getting older…the bane of singing opera.

Thanks for your long response…it made my day!

What great posts. The length is needed! I have written to many people on this forum that an orchestral path isn’t the only option and this really fills out the details. For those reading this, there are some books available on the topic of building a career in music (in the age of Internet, gig economy etc.). Conservatories offer courses in entrepreneurship these days for a reason- and also experiences in outreach and teaching. I am copying and pasting and sending to some young people I know :slight_smile:

One question. How many of you have kids in music who bring up the subject of children? Is it mainly females who worry about this? After a doctorate, or even a master’s, young people only have a certain number of years to thrive in the city of their choice, before the biological clock becomes a concern. Is this a worry for your kids?

Another question: how many of you have kids playing “new music.” I hate that term but “contemporary classical” or “contemporary concert” music don’t do it either.

Finally, regarding grad school, can an argument be made to study in a location that is removed from eventual career, in the interests of development? Or does everyone feel that grad school in the area where you are going to settle is best> And really, do 20 somethings settle!!!

Great topic and wonderful posts! I have a question, if a candidate has interests in pursuing a masters degree in Europe, does the faculty of the undergraduate school give you support and help? What would be the best things to do to help you achieve this goal?

Yes, in our experience, US faculty give the usual help and support (and recommendations) for grad school in Europe. Also in our experience, a visit for an interview or audition will be needed- as you must imagine. In general, summer programs during undergrad can be helpful. My kid has gone abroad most summers for a few years now- staying in US this year!

A number of my daughter’s friends are in grad school in Europe now. Audition season is a little later. About having kids–with a schedule like my daughters I have to wonder if she will ever have kids, or even have time for a relationship. But as years pass hopefully her schedule will be calmer. Most of her teachers, who one might classify as very high-level freelancers (a career of combined chamber, solo, and teaching work) have managed to have families. But it’s not easy. My daughter does play some new music, to answer another question, some of it “hot-off-the-press.” As to the third question about location, it really depends on what kind of career you want. If you’re trying to break into the freelance market in, say, New York, but did your undergrad and grad elsewhere, it’s going to be more difficult, not that it cannot be done. My daughter has sometimes wistfully said that she’d like to move back to our home city (even though as an undergrad I could not convince her to even apply to the conservatory here.) But her work life is in NY, where there are more opportunities, anyway. Time will tell, however. Some peers at her stage might audition for an opening in, say, an established string quartet that has a university appointment, but usually that means moving to an unfamiliar city, far away, and she’s probably not going to do that, either.

What a great idea for a thread as I hope our stories can inspire and also provide a realistic picture of the future for those just starting their journey. My son is a Jazz Bass player with some classical training which he started as an undergrad and continued into grad school. He graduated from a conservatory in 2016 and then did a 1 year free Master’s at Berklee and graduated last summer. After graduating he moved to NYC where he was able to get space in a large apartment on the upper east side with friends of his from high school who were working in Finance or high tech.

He was able to get a part-time job at a private high school in Manhattan a short commute from his apartment. It seemed great as the job would pay the bills and leave him with time to compose and gig and practice. He also was hired to work as a substitute for an after school program.

What was challenging for our son was how tired he was from teaching and commuting and dealing with winter in NYC and having a wisdom tooth extracted. It left him with little energy to make it to gigs and that in turn resulted in him questioning music as a career and thinking about other interests.

He got the boost he wanted when he was accepted to Banff. This was his third try. And it was also meaningful as the work he applied with was his master’s project that was all his original composition and work.

Mostly he is trying to work his master’s project into something he can present at a gallery or show. I do wish he would seek out the advice and time of his mentors from conservatory and grad school more as many of them are well connected and well known. But you have to let them do things their way. And he is. He is not rich but he is managing. We still help out here and there. My big concern will be in a year when he is thrown off our health insurance.

He moved from living with peers who are making a ridiculous amount of money to living with other musicians and I think he is much happier this summer. He returns to Boston to teach in a summer Jazz program and then will head back to NY before going to Banff at the end of the summer.

Part of being an artist is learning how to “hustle” and that does not come naturally to many…but I hope our son will get the hang of that in time.

I can speak to this one because it just happened to my daughter. I was losing sleep over the prospect of the insurance switch, but it turned out to be a painless, even positive experience. My daughter was thrown off our insurance (which is from the not-great-for-insurance state of PA) on her birthday, which happens to fall on the last day of the month. Her new fellowship, which starts in September, comes with insurance, but she needed something to cover her for 5 months. I was pretty nervous about it, but it turns out that NY State is a great place to be on ACA insurance. Unlike PA, which rejected state medicaid expansion. I have another daughter who is currently in PA and has ACA insurance that costs over $200/month. But with similar income and for a similar plan in NY State, my musician daughter is paying $48/month. I’m thinking that in the next enrollment period my youngest, who lives in NY (the girls are roommates) should switch to NY State ACA so she does not have to come home for every medical appointment. Also, we made multiple calls to New York State of Health and everyone we talked to (I was conferenced in on some of the calls with her permission) was incredibly nice and helpful.

I do have one caveat, something we discovered the hard way and is not easy to find out on the internet: apply in the first 15 days of the month before he loses the insurance. My daughter was traveling internationally and was unable to apply early, so her application went in about a week before her birthday. We were shocked to learn that there is a “15-day rule” in NY, meaning that if you apply in the 2nd 15 days of the month you must wait until the following month for the insurance to take effect. I had visions of all kinds of disaster happening if there were an insurance gap. I also checked to see if we could use COBRA ($500+ for our crappy insurance) for one month, but no: if you do that you are stuck on COBRA until the next enrollment period because the situation is no longer a “life change” (like moving or aging out of parents’ plan.)

Fortunately, there was an appeals process. My daughter appealed and it was accepted. The appeal took more than 2 weeks, but the insurance was retroactive. (She didn’t actually use it during those weeks, but it would have been great if she needed it.)

So, to reacap: NY State is great for insurance–affordable and easy to work with, esp in contrast to some other states. But be sure to file in the first half of the month. Don’t use COBRA or you will be stuck with it until the end of the year. If you need to appeal, there is a process, although it’s hard to find this info on the internet–we got it directly from the phone reps.

Such great insurance info @glassharmonica, thank you so much for sharing!

@compmom asked a couple of questions I can respond to:

Regarding marrying and kids and family:

I know my daughter definitely wants to marry and have a family some day, its very important to her, and she really loves kids. It is that time in life (early 20s) when people she knows are starting to get engaged, and some even getting married. I know this is hard to see without thinking when will that be me… I think a love in your life would be so great and supportive, but with the crazy lifestyle they live with all the different gigs, travel etc, it has to be someone really supportive and special. For my daughter at this time, though, she has worked so hard, and is ready to get out there and give this her best effort and see where it goes. I do worry about the biological clock thing, but heck, I was just a business major and did not have kids until I was 29, so I keep reminding myself she has plenty of time. It does concern me that as musicians, they spend so much time with other musicians and have less opportunity to meet people outside of music unless they make a concerted effort. I could see where being with a musician would be good and NOT good!

Regarding grad school, can an argument be made to study in a location that is removed from eventual career, in the interests of development?

I think for most musician students, going for the teacher that is best and best for YOU is key for undergrad and graduate, I would tend to say be where your best teacher will be, establish your network through summer and other programs and then follow the work after.

My D has started bringing up children (to say she’s not ready…but obviously it’s on her mind). She is in a serious relationship. Her boyfriend is a few years older. They have been separated for 2 and 4 months as she sings elsewhere and that’s been fine. He works in a field where he could move and has said he is open to it. We do like him…and he comes with a salary and benefits…lol. So maybe there is a Santa Claus!

I do want to add that my D’s survival job is unrelated to music/performance. A survival job can feel like “drudgery” from the outside and hers can certainly be dull (she’s basically a glorified receptionist with some light sales responsibilities). However it is in an industry (beauty) that she enjoys (all those scented oils etc). She is paid and treated well for an entry-level type job AND has a 401(K) with matching even as a part-time employee. If she works 30 hours she can have health insurance. They work with her month-to-month on her schedule and are supportive of her career letting her leave for 2 or 4 months or even 8 months and then return. And…everyone is involved in their “campaigns” even the lowly receptionist. She does get involved on their “new 6-month look!” and gives her “hair” to the process. She is a hair model for them…and paid well for the photo shoots. She finds the whole process of putting a campaign together interesting…and then she’s back to answering the phones. (Note: in college my D did join the retail merchandising club for a year, attended events, took the first merchandising class for a potential minor, then got cast with a role in an opera and had to drop the idea due to the demands of the production…but she seems to have an interest in this area and gravitated to this job while in grad school).

I have not explained some of this in the past since it’s outside of music/performance and college. But even in approaching the college decision, my D wanted more outlets and variety (hence the BS degree). She also did get involved in activities outside music (like retail merchandising). Once she got to grad school in the city, she started working the theater angle while studying voice in school…so I guess some things never change. She needs variety. I do feel that she has a very full, good life now even as she struggles to define herself as a performer and support herself. She’s certainly not sitting in my basement in a deep dark depression with nothing to do (not that I ever worried about that…).

Finally @compmom my D just emailed me her first offer for spring 2019…it is a new/contemporary music and poetry production. I probably wouldn’t have noted that except for you. She’s never done new music but has tentatively accepted.

@stacjip - I work in finance/insurance. My D will lose her insurance in Nov but since I work in a related area I know exactly what she’ll do. I think my D may be in the $50 range as well for premium. @glassharmonica explained it well.

And the perfect gift for the arts graduate…a tax advisor who works with artists. We did that for my D. He knew how to set her up and do the Schedule C for the art income and told her how to document her non-W2 income and expenses. It’s relatively cheap and she got a very nice tax return (which on her own who knows what would have happened).

Good point on the Tax advisor, as the rules all changed with this year, so I think there is a lot of confusion.