<p>Rather than go to a conservatory for a bachelor's degree in vocal performance, is it preferable to go to a liberal arts college, get a well-rounded education, major in something other than music, get private voice lessons during college, and then go for a master's degree in vocal performance? </p>
<p>Considering that the human voice continues to develop as an instrument, wouldn't a student gain more if she were 22-23 years old rather than 18-19 when she enters a conservatory environment?</p>
<p>If you and your child have the financial resources to be that patient with the process, there's a lot of validity to what you propose. Lorelei doesn't post much here anymore, but she is a professional voice teacher who would say you are right on the money. </p>
<p>A lot of it comes down to how you, as a parent, feel about your investment in your child's college education. If you are totally geared toward helping your child be a well-rounded, self-fulfilled person, and consider any investment toward that goal worthy, that's great. I tend to view our college investment as an investment in our child's capability to make a career for herself. With our eldest daughter, all she can see herself doing is something in music, preferably performing, so we are looking at colleges with that in mind. </p>
<p>I think for best long-term earning potential, anybody here would tell you that if there is another field your child might be interested in, by all means they should pursue that.</p>
<p>It also depends on what aspect of voice your child is looking at. Our D is looking at jazz, so age is not necessarily a disadvantage in that genre. Similarly for MT. Or Pop/Rock. Classical and opera would tend to want more mature voices.</p>
<p>I spent two years on these boards asking similar questions. I had a daughter with state titles in classical voice and aspirations of an opera career, but many other interests and talents as well. We ultimately came to the realization that pursuing an undergrad voice degree was not compatible with pursuing the other passions and decided to go the exact route that you're considering. And as you say, while woodwind players may have missed the boat if they're not fully professional at 22, singers are working with immature instruments up until their mid-20s. Eventually, my D's liberal arts program turned out to be Harvard, the outside voice instruction was excellent, and plans were rocking along until a cyst on the vocal fold came into the picture.</p>
<p>She's having the cyst removed next week, followed by months of vocal rest. It's been a frustrating and difficult time for her, but life at Harvard continues to be fabulous and exciting and all she imagined it would be. Despite the frustration caused by this cyst, I keep thinking about the chaos this would have caused if she was midway through a college curriculum that was 90% vocal performance.</p>
<p>Here is the bottom line that we concluded in research, noting that we entered the process assuming that my D would go to a conservatory, but ending up feeling differently. Consider a conservatory if money is no object, you can choose the studio before committing, there is no horrible politics with regard to casting, and there is no stigma attached to switching studios. During our research, not one working singer we were in touch with advised my D to go to a conservatory for undergrad. The ones who had either regretted it or said they didn't believe it put them in a better place in grad school than their peers who had not. I know this is a very broad brush, but that was her experience. They gave a lot of different reasons. Several told her of good experiences, but didn't feel it was a good value and none recommended taking on debt to go to a conservatory. Others found that their friends from other schools had many more performance opportunities than they had from the conservatories because the conservatories cast the graduate students or only those with significant scholarships or students of particular teachers. Others found that the teachers they had dreamed of having were great at polishing an already established technique but weren't able or interested in working on basic technique. We both were in touch with many who had left well known conservatories because of this concern. At some schools, switching teachers is so difficult that students leave rather than doing it. Some mentioned the horrible politics and in fighting and how students of some teachers were almost shunned. That is something to be on the lookout for everywhere though. The bottom line from all of them was that there are lots of great teachers at lots of different schools and that the conservatories do not have a corner on that market - especially in dealing with the undergrad voice. I have mentioned this before, but you only have to look at the educational background of singers on stage now or those who win the prestigious competitions to get an idea of the variety of undergrad training. The key is and will continue to be the teacher and that is a very individual thing. My D's private teacher from high school says that about 50% of her students either end up switching teachers at some point or wish they could in undergrad. One of the things she advised against was going to a school where doing so is either difficult or frowned upon. Conservatories can be great experiences but you don't have to worry if you don't choose it for undergrad.</p>
<p>You might pm ABlestMom. She posts occasionally. Her DD is going that route now, after begin accepted by numerous conservatories and being a NFAA finalist. She is very active in VP outside her college.</p>
<p>If your daughter is serious about a master's degree in vocal performance, she will need more training than just voice lessons as an undergraduate. She will need the equivalent of an undergraduate B.A. degree with a music major, which she can get at just about any liberal arts college or University. Besides voice lessons, she will have to take a core curriculum in music theory, music history and ensemble. </p>
<p>She will need to have a good voice teacher and work hard in order to compete for a spot in a graduate program with graduates of conservatories. </p>
<p>I'm a music professor and would be glad to answer any other questions you have, here or in a PM. I got my B.A. at a liberal arts college and my graduate degree at a conservatory. My son seems to be headed in the same direction.</p>
<p>This thread has proven to me that I can't read. I read the question as the choice between conservatory and majoring in music at a university. I have no idea how kids get to graduate school in voice without taking the core music classes - but I agree that ABlestMom is a good place to start.</p>
<p>Some graduate programs in voice want language proficiency; others only require training in foreign language diction, which can be taken at the graduate level. </p>
<p>Vicariousparent, you ask if a well-rounded education is preferable to conservatory training at the undergraduate level. This of course depends on the student (and her parents). A good compromise might be a large-ish University with strong academics and a great music program. The smaller liberal arts schools tend to have strong music history and theory offerings but fewer performance activities, although the students get a lot of individual attention. </p>
<p>You're right that the voice continues to develop through one's 20's, but 22-23 is a bit late to start seriously working on technique, learning repertoire, and developing a strong background in music history and theory.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your feedback, I hope others can also share their thoughts. </p>
<p>gadad, I hope your daughter recovers her voice soon enough. If my D ends up at Harvard (ha!), I'll be sure to get in touch with you for teacher references.</p>
<p>cartera45, thanks for mentioning Westminster choir college. If my D ends up at Princeton (ha!) she will be very interested in exploring the special program available to Princeton undergrads to get lessons and possibly other instruction at WCC. Actually the Princeton 'certificate in music performance' would be a great thing for her to pursue.</p>
<p>Skie, your point about a large-ish University is a very good one. We have ruled out some of the smaller, rural liberal arts colleges precisely for that reason. We are going to look into Northwestern and U Michigan, along with some others. </p>
<p>The plain truth is that at this point my D is simply not ready to make an irreversible commitment to a professional career in singing. Nor, for that matter, is she ready to make an irreversible commitment to any other profession. She doesn't even know for sure what she wants to major in. Those are decisions she will make in college. What she does know is that wherever she goes, she will need a really good voice teacher who will be able to continue to nurture her voice and she will want opportunities to sing in high quality ensembles. </p>
<p>Eventually she may end up going to grad school for music, or she may end up going to law school. But if she does become a lawyer, she will be one with a darn good singing voice.</p>
<p>I apologize if I am repeating something I have posted before, but as a headhunter for lawyers, I can assure you that an undergrad degree in music is a fine background for law school. I just spoke with an attorney at a "biglaw" firm a week or so ago who had a BM in vocal performance from a conservatory, an MM in vocal performance from another conservatory. She said her degrees were never anything but a plus - she found that the poise she gained from performing was of great value. She is by far not the only attorney with whom I have dealt who graduated from a conservatory. There are lawyers out there from Juilliard, Curtis, all the top conservatories or with BMs from other universities. I have never found a degree in music to be a hindrance to any number of careers.</p>
<p>That is very interesting, cartera, and if you are repeating yourself that's OK because I have not read those older posts. I realize that a BM in vocal performance need not prevent someone from becoming a lawyer. But the point is that my D really wants those college courses in physics and math and history and political science and philosophy, etc. Right now it is the journey that she is looking for, not the destination.</p>
<p>Cartera, my oldest is a very miserable law student at the moment. He seems to have learned through law school that he really doesn't like law. As he is a former vocalist, I harbor the hope that he will return to music someday!</p>
<p>Preparation for a wide variety of opportunities is crucial. Core to the vocal performance route is thorough training in an arena of interdisciplinary areas, music, language, drama, movement, history, etc. At the end of the undergraduate experience, there are many possibilities from a real liberal arts education. With a music degree (B.M.), to do anything else requires considerable time retooling, meeting prerequisites, etc. For an instrumentalist, the necessary time in the practice room to master the technique will preclude an alternate route. For a singer, overuse is abuse, and there is only so much practicing time possible, and on an immature physical instrument, many things will only evolve with time. Be sure there is a good voice (technical) teacher available, and performance opportunities to be had. Beyond that, getting an education is crucial.</p>
<p>One consideration for going to a great university with a conservatory was the chance to take other classes and stay there if DD's interests changed. One of the things we noticed at Rice was that a number of the students had a second major and went on to other careers besides music. (The Post Graduation Survey seems to be off line right now so can't link to it.) That seemed to indicate some flexibility. </p>
<p>Now that DD is there, however, I'm not sure how they do it. A BM takes a tremendous amount of credits each semester to cover the required courses and the university required distribution classes. That is something to consider. </p>
<p>She loves it though. Studying music is way different from just singing. She takes a lot of language, history, and theory besides the signing components. So far her distribution classes have added to her music understanding, too. She can see how she can apply what she learns to her music. We are very happy with the education she is getting.</p>
<p>jazzzmomm - I'm sorry your S isn't liking law school now. I don't what year he is but that could still change. 2nd and 3rd years are a lot different from 1st and hating 1st year is normal. I liked law school - after 1st year - but wasn't a happy lawyer. I only practiced for 3 years before going into business. </p>
<p>My D's school has a heavy general education requirement and it makes for a tough schedule and a good number of music students not graduating in 4 years. Getting closed out of a required class can throw off a very well planned schedule. </p>
<p>One of the reasons my D chose her school was the "what if" I decide to not major in music. She couldn't really imagine it and still can't but somewhere along the way she decided that she should attend as school that she would like if music weren't there. That was one of the factors that knocked her early on first choice out - she just couldn't see herself in the "general population."</p>
<p>Thank you all for the very helpful responses, on this thread and off-line by PM. The consensus of opinion seems to be that it is possible (and according to some, even preferable) to follow this route but the student has to obtain the proper training and preparation during the undergraduate years to be successful.</p>
<p>You have confirmed one of my sometimes "reaching" theories. We agreed on vocal performance and music seeing the passion for it while well knowing that few strike gold in the profession. I always felt that regardless of the road my D ultimately headed down she would be enriched by the ability to perform to the crowd and have no regrets having follwed her dreams. </p>
<p>Hope your D is doing well!</p>
<p>Happy Holidays to all and my sympathy to those (like me) who's freshman have returned on break after 12 weeks of dorm life! How can you retrain them in four weeks??!!</p>
<p>Thanks for the good wishes. I hope your daughter is doing well also. Mine mentioned recently that she wanted to stay in touch with yours so hopefully they will do that. She is doing well and is home - I am so glad to have her here and have missed her terribly. She loves being back in her room - being an only child makes dorm life a challenge - she likes everything "just so." </p>
<p>She still can't imagine doing anything except majoring in music and her best friends are music majors. They understand better her schedule, need for sleep and desire to stay healthy. She will be singing in my parents' church Sunday and in their Christmas play on Monday and seeing their faces when she sings - priceless.</p>