<p>I never thought I would be posting in this forum.
My youngest daughter, almost 11, has a VERY good voice.
I have been ignoring this for years now, since she already takes violin and piano, but after her recent performance (with her school choir) I had yet more people come up to me and ask me who is she taking her lesons from ?
Duh...no voice lessons, no practicing other then choir rehersals:-)
Her choir director offers to give her lesson.
What really is a voice lesson, where do they start, how do they go about it, how much does one need to "practice" (I don't want to sound dumb, but practice seems easy compared to violin and piano...)???
I am clueless. Where do I start?</p>
<p>It sounds like she is already on the right track. Healthy choral singing and
piano. Do you live in a large city where there might be a good childrens chorus that works with the local symphony and/or opera company? That may
be the next step. My D got her start with a very reputable childrens chorus
that stressed vocal health, discipline and music theory. It also gave her the
opportunity to sing with a major symphonic orchestra as well as world class
opera productions. Individual voice lessons didnt start until she was 14 and
even then it seemed a little young. But Im sure professionals like Lorelei have
more specific recommendations.</p>
<p>I agree with musica - my D didn't start private voice lessons until she prepared for auditions for a performing arts high school, so she must have been 14. Before that she also sang with a local children's chorus and continued with them until she was a senior in high school. It worked out well because she was able to get great choral experience without having to deal with middle school or high school chorus. That freed up time for voice lessons. The one thing I regret was not having her start piano earlier. I think her work in theory suffers because of that, so keep up those piano lessons. Just make sure the piano teacher focuses some on theory. I managed to take piano lessons for 9 years and never learned a thing about theory. If you hear her around the house though belting out pop songs at the top of her lungs, you might want to get her some lessons so she doesn't hurt herself. I also agree about listening to Lorelei.</p>
<p>Yep, she sings all the time, no necessarily pop but more like opera :-)
She has a very deep voice, not at all child - like, which sounds a bit strange - honestly. And she sings like crazy when playing the piano - what do you mean by saying to take a few lessons so she does not hurt herself?
Her main instrument is violin, piano is second. What do you mean when you say to take theory? Sorry, I know that I sound extremely dumb, but honestly I am clueless.
There is a childrens choir in our state (UT), but I don't know if taking here there is possible. I was thinking about a musical theatre that is very close to home.
Thanks for your suggestions. I will check the choir/chorus and look up Lorelei.
And I understand that it is too early for private voice lessons, right?</p>
<p>If she's singing a lot then she may need to learn how to use proper technique in order not to damage her vocal cords. She can strain her voice and shouldn't try to sing too big or too high or too long. She shouldn't be singing until she's hoarse for example. She shouldn't sound raspy. There have been some young singers who have ruined their voices at a young age. Charlotte Church may be one. The last Idol winner, Jordin Sparks, has been put on complete vocal rest because she has a vocal cord hemorrage. I'm probably scaring you, but if she loves to sing, she will probably want to sing for a long time so she will need to learn how to take care of her voice.</p>
<p>While I agree that it may be too early for lessons, I have a niece who is that age who has been taking for about a year now. My son didn't start taking untill he was 15, not because we thought it was too early, (we didn't know anything at all, less than you) he started taking at that time because that's when his interest started. He's in his second year in a VP program in college. I think what is meant about not hurting herself is singing incorrectly. Especially singing big without proper support (breath support) can damage the vocal chords. Also when you sing you develop muscle memory and when done incorrectly takes time to undo. The voice is an instrument, just like the piano and has to be learned to play it (sing) correctly, not just the sounds but for vocal health, which is important for longevity. Her piano/violin teachers may be a good place to start in asking about local voice teachers. Find one that stresses vocal health and good breath support. Most teachers will give a sample lesson and do not be afraid to try out several to find one who is a good fit. As far a theory is concerned, I don't understand it myself, but I believe it is the technical side of music, what all of the stuff on the sheet music means, etc. If she is going to continue with her music education, whether in voice, piano or violin, she will need it. I am sure that others will weigh in and have good advice for you.</p>
<p>My d started with a good children's chorus at age 9 where she sang far more challanging material than she'd ever have seen in school. </p>
<p>She started private lessons just before her 13th birthday at the suggestion of her choral director. I'd been leery to get her started before that based on advice we'd received from some pretty reputable musicians I know. The main thing is to make sure you're using a teacher who knows about and understands the difference between a child's voice and an adult's.</p>
<p>As for theory, the very act of learning piano will teach her an awful lot on that subject. My kid went straight to AP music theory as an H.S. sophomore after taking piano for about five years and succeeded there pretty well. I wouldn't sweat it too much about that.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the advice - keep it coming :-)
She is only in 5th grade, will be 11 in one month, so looks like there is lots of time to pursue voice if she chooses so - so different than with playing an instrument :-)
We will probably start with her current choir director, who actually suggested it over a year ago. I do not know her professional background, but I know that she does give voice lessons. I am going to talk to her about giving my DD just a few lessons over the summer, to concentrate on proper technique and breathing.
DD "singing" voice is VERY deep, so deep that friends that are at the house and hear her sing, without seeing who is singing, think that it is her older brother :-) Is it common to have such a deep singing voice at this young age? It also sounds VERY strong. I do not know what "range" she can cover, but her first solo that became a sensation was a part from "Polar Express", that she sang last year, the boy's part - I am wishing on a star...
People thought that it was from a CD, that is how accurate she was.
Yesterday she sang Behold...., from Charlie Brown Musical in front of high school kids. Those very kids came to her after the show to congratulate her. She was bewildered, to say the least, and she had ask me about the voice lesson....that is why I posted today :-)
Her regular "speaking" voice is very child like,girl like, with a very"nice" tone - we did have some people tell us that she should be a voice over for some of the animated characters :-)
How common is to have a deep voice like that at such a tender age? How does it usually develop/change as kids gets older?</p>
<p>I'll join in the "chorus" supporting a children's chorus. Both of my kidlets sang in an auditioned children's choir here, one starting in grade three and the other in grade four. DD continued until the end of 10th grade, and DS continued until his voice changed at the end of 8th. They learned quite a bit about singing in a group, good voice use, and the sang a fabulous repertoire of music. In addition, these kids were exposed to sight singing, a variety of instrumentations (sang with organ, piano, full orchestra, etc). The choir my kids sang in also did extensive concerts and toured both nationally and internationally. The experience was unbelievable. If you live where this is a possibility, I would check it out.</p>
<p>Hi, Lorelei here....weighing in. Generally speaking voice lessons before physical maturity is not developmental vocally, just musicianship and musicality, reading music and learning how to phrase and be expressive. Bones and muscles can grow at a different rate, and co-ordinating them in any kind of fine-tuned vocal approach is difficult, hence the need to wait for real voice lessons until a couple of years after a female reaches her time of menses, or a guy's voice changes. </p>
<p>I would concur that a good children's choir experience, general music lessons (theory) and especially piano are important experiences. </p>
<p>I would have some concern about the issue of the extraordinarily deep voice....check with her physician if you have any questions about the progress of her adolescence and puberty. </p>
<p>I will PM the name of a very fine voice teacher in Utah, who has good experience with vocal hygiene and technique...I recommend her highly. I e-mailed her and she will be expecting your call. Good luck. </p>
<p>Lorelei</p>
<p>Thanks Lorelei:
I will contact the teacher.
Her "deep" voice in only when she sings. When she talks she sounds absolutely normal, like a 10 year old girl. She seems to be developing normally, she is very "girly".
She can actually sing a wide spectrum, but I guess she "feels" best when she sings in that "deep, strong" voice (she is singing as I write:-) Maybe it is not "deep"? maybe it is "loud"??? I do not know !
Thanks for all sugestions!</p>
<p>While this isn't the only source for qualified voice teachers, check on teachers in your area who are members of NATS (National Association of Teachers of Singing: <a href="http://www.nats.org)%5B/url%5D">www.nats.org)</a>. NATS members have opportunities for professional development through the association, a magazine that they receive as part of their membership benefits and a general demonstrated interest in teaching singing as a profession. </p>
<p>I also suggest that you ask a potential teacher for a sample lesson--most will be happy to do so--so you and your daughter can get a sense of whether personalities, teaching style and learning style mesh. Also, ask around at choir concerts if any parents send their kids to a voice teacher. </p>
<p>My daughter began lessons in 7th grade (12 or 13 years old) and I believe benefited from having professional guidance in technique. She's now 18 and off to study voice at a conservatory...and never had an injury or a problem with her voice. </p>
<p>Good luck to you! And, all the best to your daughter as she decides whether and how long to concentrate on voice!</p>
<p>Thanks Schleen !!!</p>
<p>Perhaps when you say "deep" you are hearing her belt voice. Sounds like she may be an alto and is able to belt at a range that feels comfortable to her. However, you do not want to encouragae her to belt, especially when she does not know proper singing technique. Belting can ruin a voice and too much belting, even by a mature singer, is risky.</p>
<p>I would start voice lessons so she can learn to differentiate her chest and head voice and begin to develop her middle range.</p>
<p>My daughters both began voice lessons at about 12, and have both learned proper singing technique. My oldest daughter can sound like she is belting when she really is not. She has learned what is healthy for her voice through these lessons by gaining an understanding about how her voice works.</p>
<p>My daughter started when she was just shy of 14. We looked into it at about your daughter's age, and even had a few lessons, but it really was too young.
Our daughter practices her singing in the shower, something she can't do with the clarinet.</p>
<p>My D has been singing since she could talk. I have a friend who has his PHD from Julliard and very earliy on he suggested that we wait until she was in high school. We headed his advice and it has worked out well. It was a long time ago, but I remember him saying that it had to do with the development of the vocal cords and that they are more suceptible to damage at an earlier age. You can't keep a singer from singing all together but you should try to make sure that they are not straining their voice by screaming. From what I understand, a singer should never be hoarse or loose their voice. This is a sure sign that they are either overdoing it or doing it wrong.</p>
<p>My youngest started taking voice lessons with a very serious and well-respected local guy this year. He is 13, on the young side, voice hasn't changed yet. His lesson was an hour long, and he was exhausted at the end of it. Plus he hated going and dreaded it. He is "known" as the best singer in his grade, every music teacher has suggested to us that he have private lessons. But I think he's too young still. We stopped the lessons. I would like to wait and see in a year or two if he wants to take lessons again. Maybe when his attention span is more mature and his voice and muscles are more developed he won't be so tired after a lesson and he'll be ready to commit. I hope I am right that pushing at this stage would have killed the whole thing. Of course there are other kids his age throwing themselves into it now, but, for him, it just doesn't seem to be the right time.</p>
<p>Jazzzmom, I think an hour lesson for one so young is definitely way too much, my son always had 30 minute lessons although often they went a little over. Even if a teacher is well respected sometimes it is not a good match. Maybe you should look around for other teachers and try some sample lessons, he needs to find someone he connects with, then it is not an ordeal it becomes something to look forward to. Note: I know it's been said above, but no matter how much they connect find a teacher who emphsises vocal health, you'd be amazed how many don't! Also I sent you a PM.</p>
<p>If his voice has not changed, the only reason to have voice lessons is to correct bad habits, i.e. bad posture, awkward head/neck positions, forcing the sound. Even then, the muscular skeletal development will not be synchronized and an effort toward co-ordination probably will be futile. </p>
<p>Beyond that, an hour lesson is exhausting for a mature undergraduate/graduate student, if they are using their body and energy appropriately. </p>
<p>Please consider encouraging your young singer to develop keyboard and musician skills through choral singing, youth musical groups. There is plenty of time for voice lessons after his voice has changed and settled, and he is ready to learn songs in his adult voice. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Lorelei, thanks for the advice. He does sing in the chorus at school and always has a big role in the musical every year. I think piano lessons are a very good idea, and I am glad that you reminded me of the importance of keyboard training. He had taken piano as a very little guy for about two years, and his teacher became ill, so we dropped it. I think I'll start my search for a good teacher for the upcoming year.</p>
<p>You know, my oldest son was a singer, too, and had such a great high school choral teacher that he got voice lessons for free from her for years. I never even realized how special she was at the time because I was quite clueless about music. He was All-Eastern in his junior year without any private coaching. That teacher is gone, and now I have another singer, so I have to educate myself!</p>