Voice Programs.

<p>Hello, I'm a junior in high school who is planning on majoring in classical vocal performance, but also being able to satisfy premed requirements. I'm a mezzo-soprano right now, but since freshman year I've added two or three notes in my lower range each year, and my voice teacher says I'm turning into a contralto, haha. Great. Next I'm going to start growing a beard! (I'm only teasing, I LOVE singing like a man.)</p>

<p>Anyway, I'm looking for a school that can fulfill not only my musical but my academic needs. I have a 3.98 GPA (unweighted, and thanks to that darn A- I had for a semester in AP Calculus) and I've taken (and passed) the AP tests for Calculus, Biology, US History, English Language & Composition, and expect to pass AP Chemistry, Calculus BC, Psychology, and Spanish (and potentially Music Theory, if they offer it next year). So I can handle the pressure of being premed AND a voice major.</p>

<p>I'm not looking for a conservatory, unless it's similar to Lawrence University where I can still take standard liberal arts classes at the same college. I would prefer a smaller liberal arts college or private university, not one of those big-name colleges that everyone applies to and gets turned down at- something less known, but still high quality. I am a skilled musician- I play piano, a little cello, and I sing all the time. I'm in six choirs right now, one through a local university, and I absolutely love it.</p>

<p>Sorry for making this so long, but if anyone has any suggestions or advice, please let me know!</p>

<p>Oberlin, fantastic LAC,great for voice ,(though still a “big name” and highly competitive). Chapman in So Cal, is a great LAC and they are producing good singers.(and they are generous with merit aid)
What part of the country are you looking at? That might help folks come up with some ideas.</p>

<p>Thank you! I’d looked at Oberlin, but decided it was too competitive for my taste. And as far as location goes, I don’t really care that much- I’d prefer not in the Texas-Arizona-Georgia area, or too far northeast, but I’m open to most other places.</p>

<p>Since you love choral singing, consider St. Olaf in Minnesota. They have several excellent choirs which are among the best of college choirs in the US. The academics are strong and the name is probably not too big for you! A similar school is Luther in Iowa–it has six good choirs and the academics are quite good. It has an even smaller name.</p>

<p>Not sure if Northwestern is too big a name. Academics are excellent. It isn’t huge, but it is not small either. </p>

<p>What do you mean by “too competitive” in reference to Oberlin? Do you mean that admission is too competitive? If so, is it your academic or vocal talents that you believe are lacking? [Knowing which will help people make school suggestions.] Or do you believe that the overall school climate is too competitive? If so, you may find it difficult to find an appropriate school since I believe that there are many that have found Oberlin to be one of the more nurturing supportive places for music students.</p>

<p>Trust me, at your age no one can say that you’re going to be a contralto and your Fach may change several times by the time you " grow into your voice"; don’t get hung up on typing it at this stage.
Since it seems that you really enjoy choral music, have you considered schools that are known for their ensembles, such as St Olaf, Millikan or WCC? There are other which have been discussed here and which you can locate by using the Search feature on this page.</p>

<p>DressageWhiz (as in horseback riding?), I am obviously not a voice expert, but I am very impressed with how you managed to complete all those AP exams by the end of your sophomore year. Not sure why you would not be considering “big-name colleges that everyone applies to and gets turned down at” because it seems to me you would probably not get turned down. You might want to reverse your thinking: Find small, highly academic institutions then figure out which of those have the best music offerings. Stanford comes to mind, and would fit your geographic preference.</p>

<p>Another one that comes to mind is Pomona College in Southern California. It is a very tough academic admit (think Ivies). Their music program is small but I have heard good things about it, though I do not specifically know about the voice program. It is about an hour from downtown LA (if the traffic Gods are smiling!)</p>

<p>If you do decide on a trip west, you might look into Pepperdine as well. I know of at least two successful singers who have come out of that small program. And you would be living in Malibu…what’s not to like?
In the meantime you may want to look at Songfest, a very prestigious summer program held on the Pepperdine campus. <a href=“http://www.songfest.us/[/url]”>http://www.songfest.us/&lt;/a&gt; Songfest concentrates on Art Song, has a program for High Schoolers (ages 15-18) and is a great way to work on your audition rep before next years auditions.</p>

<p>Violindad- When I say too competitive, I just mean that EVERYONE who’s into music that I know wants to go there, and I don’t really want to deal with the same cutthroat students that I deal with every day here. They’re surprisingly catty, and I know a few other serious musicians that agree with me, and are looking for the same type of school as I. And I do like both of those, especially St. Olaf. Thank you!</p>

<p>Mezzo’sMama- I’m not saying I AM a contralto, my voice teacher just said I’m tending toward that range of voice rather than mezzo at this stage, that’s all (: And I am considering St. Olaf, but I’m not sure how I feel about WCC. Would I still be able to take all of the premed (chemistry, biology, physics, etc.) requirements I need? And is the science department actually a good program?</p>

<p>CLRN8MOM- Yes, as in horseback riding (: I compete in local dressage shows and stuff, but I’m between horses with how much I’ve got going on this year at school. And the main reason I’m not really into Ivies is because… I don’t know, I just feel like it would be too snobby and competitive. Now, granted, I don’t know that for sure, but I’m into a more relaxed and laid-back type atmosphere, not uptight. I was thinking about Stanford, or maybe Columbia, but I wasn’t too sure on how good those music programs were. And I really, really like Pomona, I’ll have to do more research into that one. Thank you!</p>

<p>Musicamusica- Aw, Pepperdine is wonderful (: I’ve been to that campus, and it’s beautiful. I don’t know if I like the music department as much as some other schools, but I’ll definitely keep that in mind. Thanks!</p>

<p>A few years ago there was a mezzo in DD’s studio that had done her undergrad at Webster. She went on to win the Met competition. Don’t know bout managing pre-med and music there, but may be worth looking at it.
[Webster</a> University: Colleges, Schools & Departments](<a href=“http://www.webster.edu/academics/colleges.shtml]Webster”>http://www.webster.edu/academics/colleges.shtml)</p>

<p>DressageWhiz, </p>

<p>When you check out Columbia, note that they have a premed concentration in music:</p>

<p><a href=“http://music.columbia.edu/programs/undergrad/cc/premed[/url]”>http://music.columbia.edu/programs/undergrad/cc/premed&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I do not have specific knowledge of this program - I just remember seeing it and thought it was an interesting combination. If they have gone to the trouble of setting up at a program, there must be student demand, which translates to a group that would be in your same situation.</p>

<p>DressageWhiz: Columbia is an Ivy and very competitive. Stanford, while not an Ivy, is tougher to get into than almost all of the Ivies (tougher than Yale or Princeton). </p>

<p>If you view the Ivies as “too snobby and competitive,” you will probably find that Stanford is even more so. [Aside: The Ivy students that I have known have never been snobby although I am sure there are some snobby Ivy kids just as there are snobby kids at Podunk U. Certainly most of the Ivy students that I’ve known are very driven and work hard but they know how to at least act laid back if not actually be laid back all the time.]</p>

<p>WCC would probably be out; you need to consider the campus layout if you are seriously considering a double degree because much time can be lost in just getting from one place to another.
I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate here and say that I really don’t think that a pre-med major with a full VP major is doable, at least not at a school that has a really good voice program. The requiremenst for each degree are very involved and something is bound to suffer, which of course, will lead to problems. A performance major has Music Theory (Theory, Ear Training and Sight Singing), piano class, music history, pedagogy, French, German and Italian, plus several diction classes covering those along with English (and that class can quickly become a full-blown linguistics class, depending upon the prof), opera workshop, Voice lesson, studio class, Choral groups (If the school requires them). And then, you have practice time along with required hours for tech on productions and possibly stage time if the school allows undergrads in operas, and don’t forget about your Junior Recital ( about 30 minutes) and Senior Recital (about 60 minutes) which require intense preparation not only in selecting the pieces and singing, but in writing your program notes. You may very well have to take a freshman writing course as well as some sort of Freshman Colloquium as they are required at many schools with no exemptions.
Pre-Med is it’s own time warp; all of the science classes AND the labs that go along with them, plus the electives that are required for that degree. And you have to work your labs around your lab partner/s schedules, which may not fit at all with those of your classmates in Opera Workshop!
While you say that you can handle “the pressure”, that’s based upon what you have experienced in high school, which really has little or nothing in common with what you’ll be doing in college. Your APs, if you’ve gotten at least a 4 (some schools will accept a 3, but not all) can help exempt you from some electives, but Spanish won’t be counted for VP. most likely AP Chem and AP Bio won’t either if you go the Pre-Med route, and AP Calc is questionable. AP Music History might, at most, exempt you from one semester, but that is increasingly rare these days as colleges want you to follow their own Theory track. The growth and change of a voice as it matures may require you to learn rep in a new fach more than once, which is another demand on your time outside of what is normally expected to build up your rep list.</p>

<p>I’m not trying to pick on you, but I just don’t want you to get in over your head and not to be able to do justice to either major. I have degrees in both performance and in biology/pre med -granted, that was back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and I got one degree first and then the other- I now have a daughter at a top-tier conservatory as a VP major and a son applying to colleges for Pre-Med. The amount of work for each degree now IS far more than I had to do way back when. Don’t forget to factor in eating, sleeping, cleaning up after yourself, basic hygiene and laundry (you’ll soon see how much time mom spent some of that for you!) and there simply aren’t enough hours in the day, IMHO.
I would suggest sitting down and searching inside you to find out what you expect of a music performance degree and where that fits into your future life. If you really enjoy choral singing and are serious about pre-med, a school with some really good performing ensemble opportunities that are open to non-music majors might be an option. Or getting the performance degree and then the pre-med degree or vice versa… The college years are supposed to be fun, enjoyable and a positive experience that eases you into “adulthood” (yep, dinosaurs, I told you!), so really give your whole plan a good look, talk to your guidance department and see if you can go and talk to a few of the college recruiters who may be appearing at your high school in the next few weeks to pick their brains on this.
Again, I do not in any way mean to discourage you, I just want you to see all sides of what is being considered and to take good care of yourself. The voice is a very delicate instrument which requires rest, good health and care to survive and thrive; once broken , it may not be easily mended. Fatigue and spreading oneself too thin could be asking for trouble. It’s impossible to be “snobby” or even “laid back” if you don’t have a moment to call your own and can’t find an hour to go to the coffee house with your friends.
Think about it, OK?</p>

<p>I"ll throw out Cornell University since you have an interest in horses. Cornell is a land grant university so besides the usual arts and sciences they also have the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. The ag school part of Cornell tends to be less snobby because it draws many middle class New York students who are attracted by the state subsidized tuition. You can do premed through either the ag or arts school you would have access to horses and they have a very active music department. Many of the music profs are actually from across the hill at Ithaca college which has a very strong school of music. You could also look at Ithaca and take courses at Cornell since they allow their students to take courses at the other college if they aren’t available on campus. Ithaca would be stronger musically but less competitive academically.</p>

<p>Much farther down the scale academically SUNY Potsdam has the Crane School of Music and a liberal arts college. You can definitely double major plus they have an Equestrian Team. Their stable has about 30 horses. Son is taking horse back riding lessons while attending the music school.</p>

<p>Singersmom07- Hm, I’ll have to check that out, thank you!</p>

<p>LGSMom- Really? That’s interesting, I think I’ll look at that and see what they really mean by concentration in music (:</p>

<p>Violindad- Of course I’m not speaking for all Ivy students, it’s just the ones I’ve met are very, very self-righteous and snobby. I’m sure there are students like that everywhere, I just am a little hesitant to go Ivy because of the cutthroat competition my Ivy friend has told me about. I’m always open to looking, I’m just not as eager as I could be. Thank you!</p>

<p>Mezzo’sMama- I completely understand where you’re coming from, but I have been in contact with some medical school admissions advisors about my situation, to get advice. I’m not looking to actually major in premed- you don’t need to do that to get into medical school. If I were to be a voice major, the admissions people said all I’d have to do is take the three or four science courses that are required prereqs, and pass the MCAT with a good score and all that jazz. It’s been done by plenty of people before, so I didn’t think it would be as much of a big deal. I’m used to having upwards of eight hours of homework a night, and participating in six choirs, volunteering, working a job, and training horses. I don’t know if you still think that would be too much for me in college, but I’m definitely open to hearing what you have to say (: I appreciate you taking the time to give me advice, I really do.</p>

<p>Momofbassist- I actually love Cornell, but I haven’t looked into Ithaca yet. That might be a really good place for me, I’ll have to check it out. And SUNY Potsdam, hm, never looked into that. I’ll look them up too. Thanks!</p>

<p>I highly recommend St Olaf College. Their choral program can not be beat, their orchestra is excellent, and their academics extremely strong. It is the kind of college were a student can be involved heavily in BOTH music and sciences and because there are so many music groups, one can somewhat tailor how involved one wants to be on the music side. Musicians there often go on to non-music gradschools and I recall two from the orchestra who went to medschool. I am sure there are more from the choirs, but I was an instrumentalist.</p>

<p>First it can certainly be done. As you have stated you need to meet the prerequisites, but not necessarily be a pre-med major. However either you misunderstood the advice you were given or those advising you don’t understand your question. Meeting medical school prerequisites is not a matter of taking three or four science courses. Most if not all schools require at a minimum one year of chemistry, biology, and physics, with lab components. Many also require or highly recommend higher level math courses. Also you don’t see many successful medical school applicants that don’t have a fair amount of volunteer or research experience in the field. Also remember your competition either in music or pre-med has a single focus etc.</p>

<p>I think a lot of the difficulty lies in getting the medical school requirement to mesh with a music performance curriculum. I doubt that most medical school admissions committee members or advisors are particularly well versed in the specifics of a music performance curriculum. My advice to you would be to write out what you want to do and present that to them. It has been done and you can certainly do it. The less amount of time you have for this the more difficult it potentially becomes. So being at the top level in both areas may take you an extra year or two.</p>

<p>DressageWhiz, you have very good suggestions here. Here is one more, and sorry I forgot to mention this earlier, which I posted on another thread recently:
[Music</a> and Medicine | Weill Cornell Medical College | Cornell University](<a href=“http://weill.cornell.edu/music/]Music”>Music & Medicine | Weill Cornell Medicine)
Found this by accident. It is a program in the Cornell Medical School that supports and nurtures med student musicians. You should contact them and find out how their students got there. What sorts of paths did they take, how long did it take, are there any particular undergraduate universities that seemed particularly supportive, etc.
If you get a chance, please post any information that you learn because this seems like it is becoming a more popular topic.</p>

<p>You might have a look at Sarah Lawrence. You don’t have a major per se there, so you could get all the requirements for pre-med plus music. The performance level there won’t be like a conservatory, but there are plenty of opportunities for a classical singer to train. If you decide to pursue a dual degree, try sending a pm to a poster from a few years back, theragingsoprano, who was planning a dual degree in biology and vocal performance. I believe she was considering Northwestern and Peabody/Johns Hopkins, and may currently be a junior at one of those institutions. Good luck!</p>