<p>I saw this on the Princeton thread. Basically, parents are asked to give a “reasonably unvarnished picture of the college their kid attends”. Are there any William & Mary parents who can provide the highlights and constraints of each of the following categories? </p>
<li>Academics</li>
<li>Physical plant and location</li>
<li>Social ambience</li>
<li>The impact of the diploma</li>
</ol>
<p>Each in a separate post. Also, iany information which would differentiate the above from other VA universities :UVA, Tech woiuld be very helpful.</p>
<p>Finally, is it true that William & Mary is more intellectual than UVA?</p>
<p>Parent of an alum and a current freshman here - </p>
<p>Academics at W & M are challenging, strong, and clearly the school's primary focus. Each of my kids has raved about the faculty, which takes very seriously its commitment to undergrad education. The grad had only one lemon in all 4 years there (major language disconnect in a calculus class); the freshman has enjoyed all her teachers so far. It's a state school, so scheduling has to be done carefully in order to meet all requirements on time, since not every class offered every semester. Many folks on CC have reservations about certain aspects of W & M (high tuition for a state school, especially OOS), but I've never read a single post questioning the strength of its academics. My kids’ teachers have always been responsive and helpful. Teacher response time to student emails is lightning fast.</p>
<p>There’s a rep for grade deflation. The average campus GPA for all students is 3.19. The freshman GPA used to be reported at 2.9 (that was several years ago). My oldest d graduated with a 3.4, which was surprisingly low (to us), considering what a strong student she was in high school. Then again, she found a LOT of opportunities for socializing at W & M, so I now realize I shouldn’t have been all that surprised. :rolleyes: The freshman actually managed a 3.5 last semester - we were (happily) surprised about that, too. She really worked for it, though.</p>
<p>Yes, the school is adjacent to Colonial Williamsburg. That doesn’t mean it’s all about actors in colonial garb and tour buses of Red Hat Ladies. The town itself is a tourist destination, with lots of shopping outlets, restaurants, a big amusement park, etc. If a student is looking for a major metro experience, this isn’t it. But if a student wants an off-campus job, there are lots of great options. Also, many decent opportunities for dining and shopping, with free bus transportation in town for students. </p>
<p>About the physical plant – though it’s a drop-dead gorgeous campus, budget concerns have had an impact on maintenance and building, and will continue to do so. There’s always building going on, of course, but I’m not sure the administration’s hopes for new or improved facilities can be realized at this time. Some of the dorms are shabby, and most of the first-year dorms have no air-conditioning. There’s a new Integrated Science Center, which is great! But each of my kids’ science classes in other buildings, which continue to be used, have had facilities issues (plumbing, temperature control). As a parent, I must say I’ve never been aware of any shortcomings in the physical plant, and I’ve been on campus many times. We had a tour of the recently renovated Swem Library last fall and are still agog about it. But I think students could probably speak to this issue more accurately.</p>
<p>This has been a great fit for my kids. It seems to be the area that gives prospective students the most pause. Theres a perception that W & M students are nerdy grinds who live in the library. While Ill admit theres a nerd component to the student body (these are really smart kids, after all), they seem to be cool nerds. There are also (smart) jocks, (smart) preps, and (smart) artsy types. W & M is a pretty big place (7K undergrads), and a public school as well, so its a lot more diverse than its reputation would have it. </p>
<p>My oldest ds socializing was primarily with her freshman hallmates (with whom she remains close), club sports team, and boyfriends fraternity. She went to lots of football games and other sports events. Opportunities for drinking? Many, and I cant say I was all that thrilled about them. But my d did sort it out, was very happy during her four years there, and held a part-time job in CW while taking a tough schedule. She never pined for a better social environment.</p>
<p>My youngest d decided to join a sorority, so her closest friends are there and in an EC group. Her freshman hall experience hasnt been as positive (roommate situation less than ideal). Shes happy enough with her social opportunities, though is always busy and occasionally has to pass up a party or activity to keep up with her work.</p>
<p>Dance clubs? I dont think so. Bars? Not really the delis adjacent to campus become pubs at night. They are very strict about underage drinking (no one under 21 allowed after a certain hour). They are really popular with the 21-and-up crowd.</p>
<p>This has been a boon to my oldest d, with qualifications. She has a BS in Bio, and originally thought she'd pursue a grad degree, but changed her mind two weeks before graduation (bad timing - no employers interviewing on campus by that time). Following graduation, she came back to NY and took a management position in retail (not her desired field). She wound up transferring back to VA as a retail manager before starting to get interviews for pharma sales, and needed to do industrial sales in another field for a year before actually landing a pharma job. Recruiters in the DC/VA/MD area told her a degree from W & M was a boost in getting interviews, whereas in NY, several recruiters hadn't heard of W & M. She finally got the job she wanted with less experience than the company was looking for because the manager (from VA) was impressed by her degree/GPA and interview, and decided to take a chance on her. Long-winded way of saying that the value of the diploma probably decreases the farther from VA one goes. Though I'd hope that national recruiters and companies would be aware of all the top academic schools in the US when hiring.</p>
<p>Fiske guide says its more intellectual than UVirginia. Since its a smallish LAC compared to 20,000 state U, by definition it will attract a different calibre of student and be more focused on academics than sports and greek scene. Ive seen it compared to Brown, Haverford, and Chicago as far as intellectual environment.</p>
<p>Frazzled1, thanks for such helpful commentary. DS will attend W & M next year. He's had 13 APs and is a top student. When he saw W & M he fell in love with it. All of our research indicates that W & M prepares students wonderfully for graduate school, but after reading some of the posts here, I began to worry that it was "easier" than we had imagined. I guess it depends on the major.<br>
Your posts confirm my impressions, and help to validate the decision. Thanks!
Other parents, with any other input?</p>
<p>Swish, the schools you mention are the exact ones DS was looking at when considering colleges. (although he also had Clarement-McKenna on the list) After seeing W & M, one of the colleges looked too cold, one place felt too small, one was too far away, etc. W & M, he declared, was "just right".<br>
The only real criticism I've heard about W & M (apart from the loss of Pres. Nichols) is the fact that UVA seems to have a more well-known "brand". On the other hand, I know that UVA's size is a direct detriment to some. One friend's son has been unable to schedule a basic Spanish class (which is required for graduation) for two years now. Maybe this is a problem for all public schools.</p>
<p>D is a sophomore, likely to declare a psychology/biology double major </p>
<p>Her experience, and my observations, echo those of frazzled1. Most of her classes are pretty demanding but the professors are committed and approachable, some to the point of frequently inviting office visits. They are great at using "Blackboard" to post all sorts of information, class notes/presentations,assignments, samples tests, grades, and the like. She has been in several huge introductory classes (bio, psych, chem) but with good lectures, posted class notes, discussion sections, and labs, has managed to do well by working very hard. She is hoping to be able to help with research over the summer and next year...undergrad research opportunities are definitely available.</p>
<p>She has had to contend with some schedule issues, but has managed to get most classes she's wanted except where there were conflicts with classes she's needed. That should be less of a problem as a junior and senior. The major issue has been constraints with courses, some required, only offered either the fall or spring semester.</p>
<p>D's experience with Colonial Williamburg is taking advantage of the stores for Christmas shopping, the Farmers Market for fresh food, and the coffee shop, Cheese Shop, and a couple other eating establishments favored by students. There's a grocery store within walking distance, but it does help to have a car (or a friend with a car--this year she has such a friend, last year she didn't) for other shopping. Other than that, there really isn't a "college town" like Charlottesville or Blacksburg, but there's plenty to do on/near campus to make up for that.</p>
<p>The campus is beautiful, and new Business and Education buildings will soon join the completed first stage of the Integrated Science Center. The dorms can be disappointing--last year her freshman dorm had to be exterminated at least twice, and this year there was no hot water in the bathroom during first semester finals.</p>
<p>D is a quirky kid, and can be shy, but is delighted to have found good friends with common interests by becoming involved in organizations. She attends meetings during the week (Monday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings) and hangs out with friends on the weekend. Some of her friends live in the language houses and they sometimes cook a weekend meal there; some live off campus and have parties once in a while. I sometimes fear her club activities and social life interfere with her studying (she is far more active than I ever was in college), and she has allowed them to derail her study schedule or writing papers once in a while, but as long as she's doing well I guess I can't complain.</p>
<p>kuvaszkin, I won't answer all your questions b/c I know you are trying to keep this to parents, but I just wanted to say that your son will not be the only one with that many AP classes at W&M. Generally only 1 person leaves W&M each year with a 4.0, so I guess you could say it was too easy for that person, but not for anyone else. Everyone there was a top student in high school (W&M just recruited a QB to attend this fall who has a 4.6 gpa, and turning down Wharton). That said, assuming your son has a strong GPA, I think he would be in the running for a Monroe scholar.</p>
<p>My son is an OOS, NJ, senior. Simply stated, I thought this was the perfect school for him. Academically, the school is challenging, he majored in neuroscience & minored in art history. W&M is not the school for a student who doesn't have good study habits, but it is not as difficult or grade deflationary as perceived. Scheduling classes can be a problem, but most professors readily provide course overides if asked. My son has stated professors are approachable and available & class sizes are fairly small.</p>
<p>The physical plant is an amalgamation of historic & new. My son lived in dorms for 2 years, 1 as an RA & survived. To me they seemed no different then the dorms we've seen at countless colleges with our other children. There is new construction, science building, dorms, etc.</p>
<p>Socially, I find the campus & students very liberal, as most colleges are, even though W&M is located in the south. W&M isn't a large school & Greek life is ~ 30%. There are many clubs & colonial Williamsburg is next to the campus. My son has lived in his fraternity house for the past 2 years. They are an " acedemic fraternity ", but I 'm sure they party pretty well.</p>
<p>The impact of his diploma remains to be seen. He did 2 summer internships at Harvard in Immunology, but medical school acceptances are pending.</p>
<p>Overall, I would highly recommend W&M price wise, academically, & total college experience.</p>
<p>Thanks smdur, soccerguy and golferdad for your insights. S has not been invited yet to be a Monroe Scholar, but maybe this is something that will come out later after RD acceptances.
Do any of you have experience with summer school? Is there any advantage to taking one or two classes in the summer, getting one's bearings before the school year starts? S is anxious to do this, particularly since job possibilities seem so limited this summer.
Golferdad, I've always heard that W & M has great medical school acceptances. Good luck to your son! It sounds like he's on a great road. :)</p>
<p>UVirginia's "brand" gets a boost from being in the ACC and its size(more alumni/ae). But, the further you get away from the state, the more it gets lumped in with "University of Fillinyourstatehere". W&M, b/c of historical legacy, cool name, etc.. may not be specifically known, but I have been in business meetings from Miami to San Francisco, where people have raised their eyebrows in respect re W&M diploma.</p>
<p>Its rep is based only in academics, not sports or parties, and that rep follows you for life. It def sets a good first impression.</p>
<p>I don't know if your son will be able to enroll early... that could be worth looking into. I'm inclined to say that you probably won't be able to do that, as most of the summer logistics will be set up by April, or May at the latest, when your son is still not actually enrolled at W&M.</p>
<p>I have a couple friends who went on a WM program to England before freshman year... I don't know if they still offer that.</p>