@JHS – my point is that dyslexic students can have all sorts of stumbling blocks, and learning “rules” tends not to be effective. The holistic learning process is not one of learning or memorizing a “rule” but of understanding things on an intuitive level – which is why the immersive settings work better.
For myself, I find all grammatical labels to be a tremendous stumbling block – I have been studying multiple languages on Duolilngo and have found my best approach is to ignore the terminology. I find German to be the most difficult language I’ve studied, but it only makes it worse if someone tries to explain usage with a label (such as “accusative” or “genitive”). I need to develop a sense of what “feels” right.
So while I agree that subjunctive in Spanish is a relatively easy concept, I realize now in hindsight that when I had problems with it in high school it was the label, not the idea, that threw me.
But the subjunctive also has a different vocabulary & conjugation that has to be learned. For example, look at this conjucation chart for the verb tener: https://www.spanishdict.com/conjugate/tener
So knowing when and why the subjunctive is being used is one thing – knowing the vocabulary is another. And learning new vocabulary also can be a big barrier.
Ancient Greek carries almost zero expectation of spoken language, is extremely logical, and it’s hard for people who learn language by speaking. So if graded on a curve, he might benefit from everyone else’s disadvantage. Unlike Latin which has some dipthongs, none in Greek. Also class sizes are usually microscopic.
Cons: finding a tutor is extremely hard unless you are near a seminary or something.
My D said that the accelerated pace of the summer ASL classes she took actually helped because it was more like an immersion. Three hours a day of class for 4 days a week for 4 weeks. It was intense but she said that compressing it helped her to remember it better. She said the same about the summer course she took in math. S17, the dyslexic and dyscalculic one, got an A in his summer CC math class and agreed that the compressed timeline helped.
I still think, if possible, he would benefit the most from an immersion experience. The longer, the better. People, even dyslexics, learn languages that way all over the world.
Cardinal Fang, My student has dyslexia too. I totally get where you are coming from. She graduated high school by taking ASL over the summer at a community college. It was pretty easy for her to learn (but not exactly an easy class). I hear that ASL at her college is a very difficult class-- but again, she would be able to learn it.
She 100 percent picked her college based on no FL requirement. She is brilliant and has all A’s in a VERY challenging major. She is going into junior year and still has not taken a liberal arts class. It looks like she is avoiding those (she needs 3 that are in a cluster to graduate) until the last possible moment!!
So I totally understand where you are coming from. You know your student. If he can’t try ASL, then maybe he needs to fiinsh the FL requirement in 2 part time semesters at the current university so that he can pass. Maybe you can come up with some strategy to make it work. It will be the last hurdle to graduation.
Good luck to you and your son.
(BTW I once, years ago, asked a similar question on CC about foreign language requirements and got such rude answers I could not believe it. The moderator actually PM’d me to sort of apologize for someone’s rudeness.)
I’m optimistic. We will get him a tutor, and he may spend some time in a Spanish-speaking country this summer, or do some cramming. He’ll get through this.
I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I know I sound negative; unfortunately I tend to pick holes in suggestions, even while considering them. I apologize for seeming to discount excellent ideas.
I do tend to worry. Right now I’m worried that my son’s fragile academic success could be ruined by this requirement. But, he’s much more mature now, and has a better support system. Most likely he will get through the three quarters of Spanish classes, and come out better on the other side.
Cardinal- I don’t have experience with the exact type of challenges your son faces, but I can give you some generic advice (and a hug):
The LAST thing kids like your son (and my kids, with different sets of issues) needs is a parent who catastrophizes. I’m sure you are justifiably worried that the current “college 2.0” or even “3.0” is on the verge of collapse. And truth be told- none of us have a crystal ball, and nobody can predict which straw will break the camel’s back.
But I have observed… it’s never the thing you’re worried about which creates the chaos. It’s always something you either didn’t know about, or didn’t think to worry about, or seemed under control.
What’s the lesson? Find an outlet for your anxiety (which I’m sure is justifiable) and keep up the chipper “we know you can do this, and we can’t wait to hear you speak Spanish” (or read Cervantes, or translate the lyrics from a Spanish pop song, or whatever). My own kids have told me- now that they are grown, flown and launched, that my anxiety, even when I didn’t articulate it to them in real time, was profoundly troubling to them, when they were in trouble or climbing out of a hole. Regardless of how confident they were that they could wrangle the issues to the ground and get past it- knowing or feeling that I was worried made them doubt themselves. Or made them feel like they were delusional to think they could handle the latest curveball, medical diagnosis and treatment, or whatever.
So big hug to you and let your son know that YOU KNOW he can learn Spanish (or can pass Spanish, which of course is not the same thing), and go take a long walk to blow off some of your antsiness over this.
CF: I hope all the good wishes expressed here successfully support your helicopter to its destination. You are an amazing and wonderful pilot. Please keep us updated on this journey.
That is a very important distinction – and “pass Spanish” is really the only goal.
Depending on the types of assignments and framework for evaluation, passing may not be nearly as much of a barrier as the parent anticipates. But your son won’t really know until he is in a class, has met the teacher, and has the course syllabus in hand.
I understand and appreciate the concern for a specific child that leads people to say things like “pass is really the only goal.” I even agree with it to some extent – if it were my child, or the child of a friend I was helping, I would certainly be thinking along those lines from time to time. I might even say it if I thought it would encourage the student to believe he or she could succeed.
But I would be lying. I believe that there is meaningful positive educational and moral value to learning a language other than one’s native language. Even if it’s tough to do. Not just passing the course. I think the vast majority of people who think about college curriculums agree with me. The foreign language requirement isn’t some petty bureaucratic rule that unenlightened administrators use as a barrier to kids who aren’t gifted that way. It is a fundamental element of being an educated person.
Like math. My humanities-oriented daughter really disliked math, but I never told her, “Passing math is the only goal.” I told her, “Understanding basic math is an element of being an educated person in the world; there’s nothing you will do as an adult that won’t be enhanced by understanding math.” (OK, her TA in her last required quarter of college math did tell her that passing was the only goal, after she had effectively gone on strike and not completed any assignment for half the course. He convinced her that it would be less pain to get a C in that course now than to fail it and have to take it over again. That did help her.)
There is a huge element of unacknowledged privilege in this discussion. In most of the world, learning a foreign language (most often English), sometimes more than one, is effectively a requirement for anyone who aspires to be more than an unskilled laborer or maybe a clerk. All sorts of people who are terrible at school, who have learning disabilities, nevertheless learn English or some other language, because they do not want to be relegated to the careers available to the monolingual.
Instead of saying “the only goal is to pass” or “how does one waive out,” we should be asking, “How do we demand the sort of teaching, and provide the type of home support, that will ensure our children get the full benefit of learning a foreign language notwithstanding the difficulties they face?” (To her credit, that’s what CardinalFang is basically doing.)
I probably said this upthread, but for me and my younger son only immersion experiences in the country worked to get us to the point where we were comfortable. Those immersion experiences were invaluable to us, not in any quantitative way, but in the way we see the world and made us realize what was important to us.
I think it’s important to remember that this isn’t about a young man who doesn’t like a subject, doesn’t expect to need it in the future. Its about a set of challenges that make this particular endeavor challenging. He’s returning to college after a long break. That’s a triumph, in itself. Now, let’s get him to the degree.
This is about a finer (or more particular) challenge than the value of a broadly rounded education.
There are times to worry about the big picture (privilege, the sociology of monoculture, etc.) and times to be pragmatic (get your kid over one hurdle and on the next).