I get that, but does the fact that I am not ready to tell the coach until I know what I want makes sense?
I feel like, if I say to the coach that I want an ED tip, but I plan to transfer after a year if I don’t get into the specialized program, the coach will give that ED tip to someone else. And that’s fine, I don’t know that I feel comfortable taking an ED slot at a school where I might not stay.
And so, i feel like before i ask the coach any of this, I need to decide what I want, which I can’t do without visiting the other schools. If I go visit the D3 schools, and my mom is right and I decide I’d rather be at the ivy even without the program, then I keep my mouth shut and take the tip. If I go visit the schools, and I realize I’d rather be there than the Ivy without the program, then at that point, I say to the coach “I’m afraid I can’t commit ED. I plan to apply RD, and would love your support. If I get into the program I would love to play for you.” and then he’ll presumably say either
“Great, I can support your application RD”
“I can’t help you with that, but if you get in reach out, and I’ll be glad to have you on the team.”
“I’m sorry, the only way you can play for me is if you take the ED slot. Once I’ve given away the slot, I no longer have space for you.”
I know that 1 is probably a dream, so I’m wondering whether I’m more likely to get a 2 or a 3 in response.
I’m also wondering, if the coach at my second choice offers to support an ED application, and I turn him down to try RD at the Ivy, will I still be able to play. It sounds like that is more likely to be a yes.
I also had a relatively complicated situation with sports and a specialized academic program in my applications, so feel free to reach out with a little more specificity over PM if you want.
Also, I got an RD tip at an ivy that I currently do not attend–it’s possible, but I also was offered the spot a few weeks before decisions came out, and I was only given a day to commit or decline.
Yes, if you say that you will likely not get the ED tip. You are dealing with many hypothetical situations which is difficult. Coaches know that not all of their recruits are going to play four years. I’m not saying don’t be honest, just that you aren’t committed for four years. You need to decide what you are going to prioritize…your program, the school, or your sport.
I think your proposed scenarios are accurate, no way with the info you have given us how to handicap the probabilities of each. When do you visit the other schools? When is the Ivy coach’s deadline (it’s not clear if you have been offered a slot there or not)? They are likely not going to keep a slot for you more than a month, and could be much shorter.
Right, I get that I won’t get a perfect answer here. But since I can’t ask the person who would know for a while then I figure I will get as much info as I can.
If I honestly feel like I probably won’t stay, or that the workload is such that I would drop the sport, then I’d say that. I just don’t want to say that and then decide I feel differently. I want to hold my cards close to my chest, you know?
As far as the choices. I feel like there are 3 things. Academic, art, and sport. If I need to walk away from one it would be the sport, but I’m probably willing to sacrifice for all 3 to get the combo. I’m just not clear what the level of academic sacrifice would be at the D3 schools, hence my need to visit during the school year.
I feel like I need to go when classes are in session in the fall. I think a huge question for me is how it feels to be in an academic class there. I am going to a precollege program that would prevent me visiting during summer session.
I don’t have an official offer, but I thought that was normal. That July 1 was some kind of deadline? I’ve had a lot of interest. Since the only ED offer I might take is the ivy, I would probably say yes to an offer, knowing I might change to no.
Do most Ivy recruits have a firm offer before July 1?
I have it in my mind that they don’t make offers to juniors, and since that’s what I was yesterday (last day of the school year), it hasn’t seemed odd that no one has made a firm offer. My coach does not seem alarmed.
There is no such thing as a firm offer until you receive a Likely Letter, which will not be before 10/1. You may receive a positive pre-read over the summer, but that is not a guarantee. Admissions, not the coach, has the final say.
See, that’s what I thought, but then this confused me:
Is that just a misunderstanding? Is there something I should have received other than a look at camp and showcases, a request for my transcript and scores, and some calls?
I think it’s good to play out the various scenarios in your head, so you aren’t blindsided. That said, you might be getting ahead of yourself. You don’t have an offer yet. Some coaches can sound really enthusiastic, and that does not mean an offer is coming.
Bottom line, when you speak with the Ivy coach I would not have the assumption that you will definitely get an offer. I would not share any doubts with the coach until after you get the offer. At that point, you should be honest and say that the school is your 1st choice with admission to the special program, but you are wrestling with what happens if you don’t get admitted to the program. Who knows, the coach may be able to shed some light on that situation.
A coach’s slot is not a guarantee. But slots are finite, so a coach will not waste one on someone without a positive pre-read. And without such an offer if a slot, a Likely Letter will not happen. While mist people offered a slot get a Likely Letter, not all do Absent a coach saying, “I am backing you” it " I am giving you a slot" or similar, you cannot assume you have a slot. The timing of such a statement varies by coach. Some may give before Official Visits in September; others wait until after If unsure, ask the coach.
Any conversations before that point of getting a slot is like dating; you may like each other, but you are not engaged.
I know that this is not a sure thing. I just thought it wasn’t a sure thing for anyone at this point.
The coach has my grades and test scores from the end of S1, and asked for them from the end of the year but since it ended yesterday the grades aren’t final. But there won’t be any surprises.
Some Ivy recruits receive verbal offers and make verbal commits well before senior year. These verbal offers and commitments are not binding on either party.
The July 1 date you might be thinking about is for the D3 NESCAC conference.
Verbal offers are morally though not legally binding. So yes either party can break the commitment, but in practice few do.
For you to have an offer the coach needs to say two things: 1. You have a spot on the team, and 2. You have my full support with admissions. You should then ask “how many students with your full support have been rejected since you’ve been here?”. “Just so there’s no misunderstanding, is this an offer?” Etc.
Coaches can say lots of nice things before an offer is made, e.g. " you are one of our top recruits!" “We’d love to have you here!” “You are a really strong player” etc etc. And all that could be true, but until you have an offer, it doesn’t really matter.
I wanted to add that you can’t count on any coaches waiting until the Fall to make an offer, or for those who may make you an offer before then waiting until the Fall for an answer.
They generally want recruiting wrapped up well before the ED deadline and tell recruits to apply ASAP so that once the committee that issues likely letters starts meeting in October, there are athlete applications already submitted and ready to act on.
On the other thread I started someone said that ivies can’t get an official admissions preread until July 1, and before that you can’t get an offer of admissions, just an offer of support.
My junior year ended yesterday. My grades aren’t final. I know they will be a 4.0 UW but I can’t prove that for a few more days.
So, are you saying they could have offered me admissions and not just support at this point?
Coach is saying things like “I want your transcripts ASAP so I can send them to admissions.” What should I be hearing? Should I be pushing for more?
A pre-read is not an admissions offer. A pre-read simply says things look good based on what you provided. Or things look doubtful. Or get your SAT up to xxx. But no admissions offer will be made before your entire application is submitted. And no admissions offer can be made, per Ivy rules, before 10/1 of your senior year. Admissions has the final say, and can (and do) override anything the coach has promised/said/committed/insert your own word.
So the coach can make a verbal commitment earlier, and the coach will almost never give a verbal commitment without a positive pre-read from admissions. But rest assured, if you get a verbal commitment on 7/1 after your junior year, and then tank your junior year academically, you just ain’t getting in
There was a parent this year whose athlete was up for a spot at a NESCAC (I can’t remember who it was, maybe someone else does). The pre-read was positive and coach decided not to use a slot since the student was competitive for admission, coach used the slot for a student who needed the help, and student applied and didn’t get in. The coach was apologetic but there wasn’t anything else to do at that point. I’m not trying to make you second guess everything but I just want to echo those who say there is no such thing as a sure thing until you get an acceptance.
So, that’s what I came into this thinking. But on the other thread people are asking if I have an offer, which seems to imply that some people do. On this thread people are saying that offers have already been made, and that I shouldn’t count on coaches waiting to the fall to make an offer.
But here you seem to be saying that while I know I can’t count on an offer, I can count on the fact that one won’t come until 10/1, and that no one else has an offer now either, so I’m not “behind” the competition.
I have a verbal commitment to support my application, but it’s not binding. If the pre-read goes well (which it should), and the coach doesn’t find someone they like better and back out of the offer, and I submit an ED application, then I’ll get the offer on 10/1, at which point it is binding.
But at this point, I could also go tour another school, fall in love, and call the coach and say "on second thoughts . . "
Is that right? I am trying to be clear as possible but the fact that people are using the word offer in multiple contexts is throwing me for a loop.
Each coach at each Ivy will have a certain number of admissions slots to work with. Given a successful pre-read, recruits who are given a slot have a very high chance of admission. You cannot have a pre-read done before 7/1, but based on transcripts and scores some coaches will guess that you will be in the clear and offer an admissions slot before the official pre-read. If you are offered a slot and accept it, it means that you have committed to the application process. Once you apply, Admissions can send you a likely letter on 10/1.
Note that the results of the pre-read are only valid if you are offered the admission slot by the coach. If you apply on your own without the coaches support the results of the pre-read mean nothing.
Timing of the offer and how long you are given to accept it vary wildly. My son was given offers at the end of recruiting trips in the fall of his senior year. Coaches were very generous in giving him time to complete all of his recruiting trips before deciding, but this is not always the case.
@Im_Not_Sure I think what the folks here with athletic recruiting experience are trying to let you know is that there are some sports in which Ivy coaches are making decisions about how to use their slots prior to pre-reads. But that might not be true for your sport, or for this particular coach. I know in the sport with which I have the most experience, track and field, most of those decisions are made in the late summer and fall. So I’d just be aware that the timelines can vary by coach and sport. But if you’re communicating with the coach and he’s explained the process clearly, I’d rely on that. (And, as others have said, listen very carefully to what he’s saying).
Honestly, it sounds to me like you’re in great shape so far. You might want to ask the coach about a financial aid pre-read, too. One area where you might try to get clarity next time you talk to the coach is on official visits. I don’t know if they’re going to do that this year with Covid, and the coach might not know yet either. But it’d be a good chance to see the campus.
You might ask the coach whether, even though he can’t help get you admitted to this arts program, is there a way for you to get some sort of assessment of your chances of getting in if you do go ahead with the ED app. Perhaps he or admissions can arrange a chat with the folks who are involved in those decisions. That feedback might be helpful.
I got a portfolio review from them at National Portfolio Day, and their feedback has guided my work this year. They have also been really helpful with my million questions. I am not sure what more the coach could do.