Warning: all Student considering Premed at Berkeley please read this first

<p>Im starting to believe all the people telling me not to go to Premed at Berkeley. im seriosuly doubting whether to go or not. Comment on what my good friend sent me</p>

<h2>THIS IS A LETTER FROM A NEIGHBOR OF MINE WHO WENT THROUGH PREMED AT BERKELEY</h2>

<p>Hello,
I wished someone had given me this advice before I decided on going to UCB. As for myself, I graduated from Cal in May with a degree in Molecular Biology and am currently trying to apply to medical school, but most likely will have to reapply again, since I took the MCAT in August and applied to schools later in the cycle. I have a 34R MCAT, 3.6 GPA, a 3.5 BCPM, and have taken all my college classes at Cal, so I do not have a bias of being against Cal because I did poorly there. Hopefully, I would just like to give a true account of my experiences there, as well as explain my personal reasons for not doing premed at Cal.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>While UCB does have a great reputation, mostly based on its high US News rankings, that does not necessarily imply that it is a better school. I personally believe those rankings are skewed in the sense that they favor too heavily on admissions selectivity and professor credentials, and not enough on student satisfaction. Furthermore, according to what I have heard about the medical school admissions committees, as well as the people I know that have gotten into medical school, I do not think that the UCB or any school's prestige factor really matters. Obviously, if two people applied to medical school with identical stats(say MCAT=31, GPA=3.6), except one to UCB and the other went to Chico State, there will be favoring by the admissions committee towards the Berkeley guy since they understand that Cal’s undergrad program is more difficult than the Chico guy. Yet, what is hard for the admissions committees to quantify is how to select between the UCB and Chico applicant if they were identical in every way, except GPA (lets say, UCB=3.3, Chico=3.7). From my experiences, it seems like there would be a preference towards the Chico guy, even though, I believe that a person with a 3.3 GPA at Cal, can easily get a 4.0 at Chico.</p></li>
<li><p>When people say that Cal's premed program is competitive, they are not joking. Since all premed courses at Cal are curved, and most of the people there are smart and hardworking, this creates an environment where professors are forced to give extremely difficult tests just to generate a fair grade distribution. To do this, many professors create exams where they focus on the most minute details, and not on the important or essential concepts. For example, I knew a person that got an A in one of my bio classes, yet could not understand the concepts of cellular respiration, but knew all the protein carriers involved in the ETC mechanism. In addition, because of the competitive nature of the premeds at Cal, there is a lot of cheating at Cal. I remember one incident, where a student actually stole a professor’s computer right after class because he thought the exam was on it, and afterwards, the professor gave bogus threats to the class about how he had confidential NIH and CDC info on it. it is not unusually for students to try to hurt other students either by giving them wrong information, messing up their experiments, and etc. </p></li>
<li><p>UCB is a research school, not a teaching school, and for the most part, it seems like that research side is limited for graduate students there. What I mean by this statement is that many of the professors at Cal are there because of their research, and not their teaching ability, and thus, teaching for them is of little importance. While I have had some great professors at Cal, they were easily by the numerous professors that do not teach or just dont put any effort into it. I had one professor that would just come to class and make up his lectures on the fly, telling us to just read the textbook for the proper information. Furthermore, the premed courses at Cal are huge. I think the smallest premed course I had consisted of about 250-300 students, whereas my general Chemistry class had about 1200-1500 students. It can create an environment that makes learning more difficult.In addition, it is competitive to even get research experience at Cal, especially a position that doesn’t require you to do bull**** tasks like clean petri dishes, remove rat feces, and etc. I believe that this is because of the fact that there such a large supply of students that want to get research experience and limited number of openings available.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>4.Letters of Rec: While I was able to get great letters of rec from my professors, due to the fact that I did extremely well in their classes and was able to use that as a way to interact with them better, I can understand how its difficult for other UCB students to get letters of rec. Since the classes are large, it is hard to get a personal interaction with professor in class, and thus, one will be forced to go to a professor’s office hours to try to interact with them. Yet, even in office hours, many professors are either aloof towards students, or are being swamped by several other students that are in the same position as you.</p>

<ol>
<li>MCAT Preparation: Many people might argue that going to Cal will prepare you better for the MCAT, stating that UCB people have a higher MCAT avg than the other UCs, but I personally believe that is a bunch of BS. I do not disagree that UCB students have a higher MCAT average, but I do not believe that it is due to the education at Cal, but rather, it is just a correlation. As mentioned earlier, I think that the teaching instruction can be lacking depending on the professor. Personally, I believe that the reason why UCB students have higher MCAT averages is due to the following reasons:
A. Hardwork: To succeed at Cal, you must be hardworking, and I think that it instills in its students a work ethic that allows them to prepare for and succeed on the MCATs.
B. Selectivity: While the MCAT is based on premed knowledge, it is inherently, an intelligence/logic test, where one must incorporate their premed knowledge to solve passages related to subjects they know nothing about. Many people might disagree with me on this, and I do agree that there are many factors that can influence one’s MCAT score, as well as there are certain biases in it, but I believe essentially that it is an intelligence test. I am willing to bet that on average, people with higher SATs, will score higher on the MCAT, and since schools, such as UCB are selectively towards higher SATs, UCB’s higher MCAT average is more of an indication of its student pool, and less of its educational program.</li>
</ol>

<p>In the end, I am not saying that you cant succeed as a premed at Cal, because that is obviously not true, but you will have to put in additional effort, work that could have been easily avoided by going to an easier school or lesser UC. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would have gone to UCI, SDSU, or some other school, where I would have been able to have 3.9-4.0 GPA with less effort, which when combined with my MCAT, would probably have made me a strong medical school applicant, rather than just an average California applicant. If you decide on going to medical school and want to go to Cal, I would recommend that you take your premed courses either at a Bay Area JC or even at a lower tier school in the area, such as San Francisco or San Jose State. I know several UCB premeds that are doing that, and they will probably get the best of both worlds. These are just my opinions on my time at Berkeley, and I hope it can be of some assistance. </p>

<p>-Take care and good luck</p>

<p>ahhhhhhhhh i love this post. especially the last paragraph-thats what i was gonna do from here on out rather than take any more premed reqs here and get slaughtered when i can take it elsewhere and ace it</p>

<p>So what happened to the laptop thief. That was a pretty threatening video…</p>

<p>turtlecloud: so at first a guy got convicted but it turned out that a “chubby” woman sold it to him which matched the description that a witness gave. he got let off and that woman has never been caught</p>

<p>Do you think EECS majors are faced with a similar situation at Berkeley?</p>

<p>Keep in mind a lot of the premed problems you face at Cal you will also face at UCLA.</p>

<p>if you just wanna be a family or primary care doc, there’s no real need to go to Berkeley.</p>

<p>if you want to go to top research schools and can handle the rigor of Berkeley, you’ll benefit a lot. not so much from the name (which does help in certain areas for internships in the area), but from the work ethic you will learn. also if you do get into a good lab here, you can benefit immensely. chances are you’ll be better able to handle MSI and MSII and will probably do better on MLE Step 1, leading to a better residency. this is of course theoretical, but plenty of my friends in MS right now who went to Cal said that MS is easier and did well on their MLE Step 1. for most people, MSI and II are much much harder.</p>

<p>so in summation, if you’ve got a strong work ethic and feel that you are a cut above, choose Cal. it seems like you want to go into surgery, which is a really tough residency not only to get into but to survive, you better at least be ready for the difficult road ahead.</p>

<p>go bears</p>

<p>i have to agree with this. berkeley is hard. your GPA WILL suffer.</p>

<p>what about pre business? D:</p>

<p>^^get into haas and you’ll have many opportunities to set you up for life</p>

<p>the post is somewhat accurate (even though it was posted by someone who doesn’t even attend Cal). Going to a CSU or a place you got a scholarship at is probably the best course of action for any premed, if you can’t hack it, Cal will kick your ass.</p>

<p>123456789BC: this was from an email i recieved from a family friend. so i just posted to give some people considering berkeley so insight on the matter</p>

<p>This kind of sucks… for people like me who aren’t premed but want to major in MCB…</p>

<p>You shouldn’t just decide against Berkeley just because of this… a lot of people think they will be premed but end up going to grad school for biochemistry/biotechnology or something and Berkeley definitely wins against lower ranked schools in those areas. And research here is really exciting and not hard to get involved in at all. I applied for a few positions through one of the MCB club’s research programs and got offered 2 positions for this summer including a paid one at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab. Everyone I know who has ever wanted a summer position at a lab here has gotten one. Actually studying biology and working with real scientists is something you will not get at just any school.</p>

<p>Unless you are 100% set on med school and don’t care about getting anything else out of your 4 years undergrad, you should not be taking this thread’s advice seriously.</p>

<p>^^ (hand clapping)</p>

<p>Thanks :)</p>

<p>And let me add that if you really are 100% set on being a doctor and don’t actually like biology or chemistry at all, please DON’T come to Berkeley. It is incredibly annoying hearing the premeds in your classes whining about how much they hate OChem and how Bio 1A is SOOO hard. Those have actually been my favorite classes here and I know I’m not the only one who thinks this way. You learn so much from so many amazing professors, and getting As is very possible. Most of the classes are graded very fairly and there is no actual cheating/sabotaging, ever (that’s just something USC tour guides like spreading around). </p>

<p>It is very true that you will get absolutely nothing out of going to Berkeley if you come here with that attitude. Berkeley’s goal is not to “get you into med school”, it’s to give you the opportunities and the resources to learn a whole lot and interact with some amazing people who are the best in their field. If you’re smart and intellectual at all, you will grow to love Berkeley and appreciate all of this even if right now you think all you want is Med School.</p>

<p>flutterfly: damn you for making me like Berkeley again :). But it has been an emotional rollercoaster go to UC Berkeley or not. the reason why im so tense on going premed and berkeley is that i wasnt the smartest guy at my school i had a 4.22 gpa (Valedictorian had 4.5) and the only reason i got in was 2190 on the SAT. and i dont feel that i am up to the academic rigor at Berkeley. luckily i have 12 days left</p>

<p>Well, let me chime in here. </p>

<p>I actually do believe that you should go to Berkeley for premed even with grade deflation.</p>

<p>1) Unless you are a hard science major you don’t have to be smart to get straight A’s here: you just have to have a decent work ethic. </p>

<p>2) My entire family is in medicine. From what I’ve heard (as the OP said) you do get quite a big bump for going to a school like Berkeley as opposed to inferior schools.</p>

<p>3) Truly top schools rarely even consider people from Chico regardless of GPA and even research. Sure, there will be exceptions, but there is quite a large bias. So, essentially, if you want to go to a top medical school, you better attend Berkeley.</p>

<p>Thus, if you do poorly at Cal you will likely get into a low tier medical school (as you would have at Chico), but should you do well, you have a chance to get into a high tier med school (unlike Chico).</p>

<p>What I do, however, agree with is that you should not major in MCB (unless you are truly interested). It’s not Berkeley as a whole that gives bad grades, it is some specific majors (EECS, MCB, etc.). You could do Berkeley IB for example, which has some upper-division courses that literally gave 60+% A’s. You can pick and choose your courses to maximize your GPA, if that’s what you care about. </p>

<p>Moral of the story: go to Berkeley, and pick an easy major that interests you. That’s the best of both worlds. </p>

<p>In my case: The “weeder” classes are a joke (Chem 3A/3B, Math 53/54, 7A/7B). These are some of the easiest classes I’ve taken. It’s really EECS courses (that you can easily avoid by picking an easier major) that kills my GPA and my free time.</p>

<p>liquidmetal: thanks for your great input. right now im undeclared L+S but im thinking of maybe IB, History, Anthro, Psych, Sociology. i have a lot of diverse interests but i will heed your advice about avoiding the gpa killers such as MCB, EECS, Chemical Biology ( Alot of people tell me its the worst), etc…</p>

<p>Honestly, there are so many successful Berkeley pre-meds that will become amazing doctors after though through the curriculum here. Study what you’re interested and don’t overextend yourself and you will be fine. You’ll find a TON of people on this website who get a C on some midterm and flood the forums about how hard berkeley is, but if you really want to succeed here and put the time in. You’ll do amazingly well. </p>

<p>Also don’t completely discount MCB, there are a lot of good offerings in the department with research and an amazing honors program, and if you can handle the lower division courses you will be fine in the upper division ones. </p>

<p>But avoid college of chemistry if you’re pre-med, chemical biology is a little intense ;P.</p>

<p>Put in a little work, don’t be afraid to challenge yourself.</p>

<p>With that said, the premed courses weren’t really as tough as most people make them out to be. Sure, they were somewhat challenging, but come on, they’re just basic science classes, not some impossible Herculean task.</p>