Warning For All College Men

<p>

</p>

<p>I would want the college to pick up the phone and get an officer to the college to take her statement. If she refused to deal with the police or was reluctant to press charges I would want the dean or RA or whomever walk her to health services to talk to a counselor. Then I would expect that the college would call the college’s attorney and let him/her know the girl refused to talk to the police and document what had been done. Then I would expect the college to call the boy into the office and let him know that someone was making allegations of wrong doing and what the college would do with the information and the situation (whatever that process that my particular college had put in place). If I were the college I would put all the documentation into each of the student files so there was a paper trail. If either student came up again over another incident there would be history and precedent.</p>

<p>I can’t imagine any other scenario for a 1x incident that a college would follow other than possibly notifying other people of the allegations like RAs or security, but I’m guessing a college would not want to spread the information that far into the system to afford some confidentiality to the girl and the boy since the girl did not want to press charges and most likely would assume the girl would talk to her RA or that health services/counselor would “handle” those sorts of conversations if they deemed it helpful or necessary to the situation.</p>

<p>I disagree with lookingforward who was hoping that a college would “start an investigation on their own” I highly doubt any college would do this unless they were advised by their attorney to do so.</p>

<p>The OCR stuff also covers documentation, paper trails and/or audio and video, whatever- being preserved. I believe it’s not into their general school files, but confidential files, not seen by the usual college faculty and staff who might have access to course histories, address, grades, whatever.</p>

<p>I dont know if legally anyone- especially a college- can force an over-18 to report something to the police. Or submit to counseling. I don’t have the energy to explore that- maybe someone else wants to.</p>

<p>? *I disagree with lookingforward who was hoping that a college would “start an investigation on their own” I highly doubt any college would do this unless they were advised by their attorney to do so. * Huh? Their attorney? They are being advised by the federal govt to do so. Their attorney would say: it’s the rule, follow it. (But, I think you mean proceed with the advice of counsel.)</p>

<p>I get a little confused sometimes by these discussions. I have certainly read complaints that colleges wanted to keep these disputes in-house and keep the police out of it. I don’t think they should do that if there is a real criminal case. On the other hand, I don’t think the college should stay entirely out of it, either, any more than they should for any other serious misconduct. My only concern is that, in my opinion, the OCR letter is pushing colleges to use procedural elements that aren’t sufficiently protective of the accused in relation to the seriousness of the allegations involved and the potential consequences.</p>

<p>Just as an example, I looked at Yale’s disciplinary procedures, and it uses a standard of “clear preponderance of the evidence” for all offenses except for sexual violence, for which it uses (in response to OCR’s letter) “preponderance of the evidence.” I’m not crazy about even the “clear preponderance of the evidence” standard, but I really don’t like a different standard for different offenses.</p>

<p>I don’t want to make you some of you more upset, but once the college knows or suspects it has to take some kind of action, and this requirement existed before the letter, regardless of whether the alleged victim wants to cooperate or not. Now each fact situation is sui generis, but I could not have someone tell me some horrific tale and then say to me I don’t want you to do anything about it. I have to do something about it. So, and the tales usually aren’t totally horrific, I say, when on a phone call, don’t name names, don’t tell me what department. Tell me what’s going on and lets look at your options.</p>

<p>A few years ago there was a Dean at a small college in Ohio called Notre Dame that was criminally prosecuted, she was found innocent, because she, at the insistence of the women involved, did not report on-campus assaults by a male student. OCR had the General Counsel of that college present at one of their training sessions. Lesson learned.</p>

<p>[Feds</a> Launch Inquiry Into Sexual Harassment At Yale : NPR](<a href=“Feds Launch Inquiry Into Sexual Harassment At Yale : NPR”>Feds Launch Inquiry Into Sexual Harassment At Yale : NPR)</p>

<p>Since you mentioned Yale, you may want to look at this report and investigation that was launched after the OCR published the report in April.</p>

<p>Absolutely under the advice of counsel…no business including a college is going to “investigate” anything unless counsel advises they do so. I can’t imagine any business “starting an investigation” without clearing those activities and getting guidance regarding what they legally can and can’t do. This would also include what “paper trail” could be created and what documentation should be created. Colleges are not going to act as judge and jury regardless of what advisories are put out by the feds unless they clearly feel they have legal protection for their actions which is why they will be also put process in place for handling discrimination complaints. This advisory is not an alternative avenue to protections that are afforded in the criminal system for people who want to accuse someone of something.</p>

<p>And didn’t Naomi Wolfe right a book about Yale and sexual abuse?</p>

<p>[Claire</a> Gordon: Title IX Complaint Against Yale Has a Case](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Title IX Complaint Against Yale Has a Case | HuffPost College)</p>

<p>[Naomi</a> Wolf: Yale Has Been Systematically Covering Up Crimes For Decades](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Naomi Wolf: Yale Has Been Systematically Covering Up Crimes For Decades | HuffPost College)</p>

<p>[Yale</a> Students File Sexual Harassment Suit Against the University | TheBlaze.com](<a href=“http://www.theblaze.com/stories/yale-students-file-sexual-harassment-suit-against-the-university/]Yale”>http://www.theblaze.com/stories/yale-students-file-sexual-harassment-suit-against-the-university/)</p>

<p>[Responding</a> to Sexual Harassment, Assault, and Other Misconduct | Yale College](<a href=“http://yalecollege.yale.edu/content/sexual-harassment-assault-resources]Responding”>http://yalecollege.yale.edu/content/sexual-harassment-assault-resources)</p>

<p>A male PhD Chemistry student at UCSB was forced to leave the PhD Program for being (wrongfully) accused of sexual harrassment even though the women accusing him didn’t actually have any proof that the male in question was sexually harassing her.</p>

<p>"Colleges are not going to act as judge and jury regardless of what advisories are put out by the feds unless they clearly feel they have legal protection for their actions which is why they will be also put process in place for handling discrimination complaints. "</p>

<p>Sure. But, they have a Code of Conduct, by whatever name. The govt says include discrimination and s.harassment and s.violence. Presumably, their attorneys participate in the authoring or at least give final approval. That’s up front. Then, when you have a complaint, the college is expected to act. Not go see counsel and ask what the fed rules are ad think about the rules and how to follow them.</p>

<p>Chaos- there will always be singular examples. As in other threads, “I know of” isn’t sufficient. Again, all you know is what was made public and possibly through another’s spin. Same applies to the other tales given here. Unless it applied to you, in which case, you have my sympathies.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Did you mean Notre Dame U in Indiana or is there a small college in Ohio named Notre Dame?</p>

<p>tsdad, quite seriously, thanks very much for your participation in this thread. It’s been very helpful.</p>

<p>Presumably, notredamecollege.edu.</p>

<p>In Ohio…</p>

<p>Glad I could help.</p>

<p>As an example. [Title</a> IX | Notre Dame College](<a href=“http://www.notredamecollege.edu/student-life/student-life-resources/Title-IX]Title”>Title IX - Notre Dame College)</p>

<p>This whole document looks wise to me. It seems to be dated 2010. see #7, which is good advice for college men (and others.)</p>

<p>There have been other threads about the situation at Yale–which I’m very interested in, since my son is there (and I went there).</p>

<p>Again, to make myself clear, I’m not denying that there’s a problem, at Yale or anywhere else. I’m just saying that I don’t think the solution to the problem is to weaken procedural protections for people accused of serious misconduct.</p>