<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, and those reported by students and those matters that come to the university’s attention through other means like newspaper articles. </p>
<p>The problem is getting those adults on campus who deal with students to realize that they are agents of the university who are responsible for reporting to the appropriate individuals when they come across these matters. It is made difficult by requests for confidentiality, which OCR is not helpful in resolving.</p>
<p>tsdad,</p>
<p>I’m a little annoyed by you bringing up OJ over and over.</p>
<p>His defense defeated the prosecution in his criminal case. That is our justice system. I accept that and I really was sickened at the time by the refusal of so many to accept the decision of the jurors. The same thing is happening with the Anthony case. </p>
<p>You sound as if you’re some sort of official in the legal side of things in education or government. It bothers me that you don’t seem to respect our legal system.</p>
<p>In general, I want our justice system, in all its many manifestations, to err on the side of avoiding false guilty verdicts vs. err on the side of “protecting us” by punishing those who just might be bad guys.</p>
<p>Mom of a male and female here.</p>
<p>I find it frightening when people seek to subvert our legal system in the name of fairness or victim’s rights or just “doing the right thing.” It’s too subjective and it erodes our rights in the end. I’d honestly prefer that a few rapists go unpunished but preserve our general freedoms, protections and rights.</p>
<p>And again, I really wish we’d have more responsible parenting and more responsible administrations at our colleges. Simply stop tolerating alcohol and truly unruly behavior. Why is that so difficult?</p>
<p>
POIH, as the mother of a daughter, I share your concerns about these beasts and the mothers who raised them. As the mother of a son, I have the same concerns for my son, lest he cross the path of girl beast who has a similar lack of ethical conduct, which, I gather, must be attributable to her father.</p>
<p>Respect our legal system?? This IS our legal system: if colleges do not respond to an accuser in these matters, they are at fault. Colleges must investigate. Colleges can set a punishment.</p>
<p>Why so hard to accept? Sure it’s not the same as “this” and the specific mandate differs from “that.” If you read the documents, it is what it is.</p>
<p>You don’t like it. Tsdad has stated his experience in this, which (if you read the documents) also implies his training. </p>
<p>There can be a false accusation, yes. A college’s investigation is meant to uncover what it can, then weigh. The documents tell that these should be trained individuals. The school can choose to set mediation, counseling, or other more serious punishments, up to suspension and expulsion.</p>
<p>You don’t like it. You don’t know why it’s not the same as criminal or why civil rests on preponderance or whatever. It is what it is. </p>
<p>And, for heaven’s sake, I thought the beast comment was about whatever young man IS a beast, regardless of parental defense- not necessarily YOUR sons. It could have just as easily been the words “mean girls” or “bullies.”</p>
<p>I find it frightening when people seek to subvert our legal system in the name of fairness or victim’s rights. Just wow.</p>
<p>blankmind:
</p>
<p>Statistically a man to be raped by a female when the male is incapacitated for any reason (under the influence or drug or alcohol or any other reason) is next to impossible. Only another male beast (attribute of mother’s pampering) can rape such a male and I do sympathized with your concerns for such an occurence and that is why advocate for ehtical education of men in the society than to complain about strict rules on the campuses.</p>
<p>Getting hurt by referring to men those who indulge in such activity as beasts show why men behave as such. </p>
<p>There are numerous examples of such men in everyday life and still mother’s come defending action of these beasts denying there is any problem at all. Asking similar regulation for women but never thinking that these things in 99% of the cases happen to women and not men.
The reported abuse of men happen again at the hand of another men only.</p>
<p>Well, thank you very much for that information POIH, my mind is much eased. Now, can you tell me about the ethical education for college women in regards to making false accusations against college men?</p>
<p>blankmind: Why do you even think of false accusation? You must be of the camp who thinks that the IMF chief didn’t rape the maid at the NYC hotel.</p>
<p>That’s the problem I was reffering to begin with. Mother’s come running to the rescue of the sons accusing the girl victim saying:</p>
<ol>
<li>She must be dressing inappropriately.</li>
<li>She must be a liar.</li>
<li>She is the one who encouraged.</li>
</ol>
<p>The problem won’t go away unless mothers change their attitude and teach their sons some ethics.</p>
<p>omg!!! it works both ways is all blankmind was saying and she is totally correct.</p>
<p>and you guys wonder why some of us with sons are a tad concerned about a college board having the say over our son’s future at college. YES if my son did anything he totally deserves any consequence that results. But if it is a case of he said she said, i sure dont want a board member with some of the attitudes posted above…that it must be my son’s fault because his mother didnt raise him right… that he is a beast with no ethics just because a woman makes a claim against him… sorry i would rather he takes his chances in a courtroom!!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Dominique</a> Strauss-Kahn pays tribute to wife Anne Sinclair as sex charges dropped | Mail Online](<a href=“Dominique Strauss-Kahn pays tribute to wife Anne Sinclair as sex charges dropped | Daily Mail Online”>Dominique Strauss-Kahn pays tribute to wife Anne Sinclair as sex charges dropped | Daily Mail Online)</p>
<p>^^^: That’s precisely why colleges want to have some control on it as in our legal system you can get away with anything by just paying money.</p>
<p>We could get back to the question of why we see college men as helpless against their sexual urges. Isn’t it disparaging to suggest that? They can say no, when the situation with a woman is wrong.</p>
<p>Wow, I’m finding some of these comments pretty unenlightened and certainly not of a sort to further any conversation.</p>
<p>So apparently according to posters here male beasts only behave so because of a mother’s pampering and to poster “blankmind” unethical sons are always defended by their mothers which is why, of course, they’re such little beasties. Because we all know that women always operate in the most aboveboard and ethical manner possible. Am I getting this right? </p>
<p>Jeez the message some of you are putting out there appears to be that men are awfully dangerous and just out to get the girls. And of course if the man has problems it’s because of his mother…I love that, the old blame the mother game. And of course we all know that young women would never ever lie or change their minds or get into situations they’re later ashamed of. </p>
<p>By putting this kind of silliness out there you confuse the issue, rape is a horrific crime and these girls should be taken seriously. However it’s also important to have some certainty about the situation before a young man is accused of a horrific crime. And before anyone of you draw your breath and begin to type in indignation, no I am not equating rape with being unjustly charged with the crime of rape, apples and oranges but certainly life altering to either party.</p>
<p>The schools should be vigilant and do everything to ascertain whether an incidence is being reported properly but I sure hope they come into the situation (or are trained to) with a more open mind and understanding of the behaviors of men and women than shown by some posting here.</p>
<p>Now excuse me, I’m going to go call my kid and inform the poor child that under no circumstances, none whatsoever, will there be any dating until the age of 30.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This is one situation where it seldom works both ways. Can you provide any cases where it ever was the other way around?
Kobe Bryant settled out of court and you’ll see the D. Strauss-Kahn do the same.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Though I risk veering off-topic, the Strauss-Kahn scandal does parallel the current discussion well:</p>
<ol>
<li>It involved a rape accusation.</li>
<li>The accused suffered reputation damage almost immediately, even though he had not been tried in a court of law.</li>
</ol>
<p>After that, the scandal serves as an example of a scenario that hitherto had been discussed only in the hypothetical here:</p>
<ol>
<li>The criminal charges against the accused were dropped.</li>
<li>Some parents feel that the accused ought to be punished anyway or that the accused is guilty with certainty.</li>
</ol>
<p>My take on the Strauss-Kahn scandal is that if the criminal charge were judged only on a “preponderance of the evidence” standard, Strauss-Kahn might be deemed guilty. He doesn’t deny that he had sex with Diallo, and forensics indicate that it was rushed. But for criminal matters in a court of law, “beyond a reasonable doubt” is the standard, and we have one: Diallo is not reliable. She fabricated her story of being gangraped in Guinea, she denied that Strauss-Kahn’s finances played any role in her accusation, so why isn’t it plausible that she’s lying now?</p>
<p>I am not condoning rape or sexual assault more broadly; I consider them to be abhorrent and reprehensible. But that doesn’t mean I pronounce alleged perpetrators guilty first and demand that they prove their innocence. No, I presume that they’re innocent and wait until they’ve been proven guilty. And if they are not proven guilty, I’m certainly not going to treat them as if they are.</p>
<p>
Oh, was that the question here? I misunderstood. In that case, no I don’t think anyone sees college men as helpless against their sexual urges.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>um, artsmarts, could you please point me to the post where I said any such thing? I think you have mistaken me for someone else. I am all astonishment. </p>
<p>Perhaps my attempts at sarcasm have gone undetected. My bad.</p>
<p>POIH, can you seriously think that WOMEN are unaware of the realities of rape? That they check their womanhood at the door when they become the mother of a son?</p>
<p>I personally have only encountered the exaggerated mother-of-a-son type in fiction. I’m sure they are are out there, but they are a tiny minority. I really don’t know who all of these mothers of “beasts” who excuse the bestial behaviors of their offspring are. I don’t recall seeing any on this thread, and I certainly don’t know anyone I’ve met in real life to be like that.</p>
<p>Certainly, as a woman, I have observed that there are some men who treat women very poorly. The most common type is the arrogant sexist for whom a woman is not worthy of treatment as a full-fledged human being unless he wants to $*!% her. (I use the vulgarity deliberately, because that is the way he thinks.) The worst crime a woman can commit in his eyes is to be fat or otherwise unattractive. This type is abundant in real life, and even more so on television and in movies. Some women seem to find them “hot” and are pathetically grateful for their attention. (Perhaps their fathers failed to model decent male behavior? Perhaps their mothers encouraged them to believe that landing a trophy man was the most important thing in life?) Some college girls go for this type big time, as evidenced by their willingness to frequent parties at certain fraternities, even though the house literally has a rep for date rape. Part of what is needed is for males to be raised to respect women. And part of what is needed is for women to respect themselves. Popular culture does a lousy job of modelling both.</p>
<p>My apologies to blankmind, I see that you were actually quoting someone else who uttered the following:
“I’m always appalled by mother’s rescue to sons unethical behaviors and believe that they play a great role in raising beasts whoes unethical conduct on college campuses results in such strict standards.”</p>
<p>So I would like to also finally request that POIH and whoever blankmind was quoting to please Private Message me as to what schools their daughters will be attending and their names so I can warn the fine upstanding ethical young men I know to stay clear of at all costs. Of course I don’t have to worry about my kid because there will just simply be no dating until 30 or later.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What are you talking about? As I recall, parent57 incredulously stated, “So guys now have to be mind readers along with everything else. This conversation is bordering on the absurd.” You disagreed and replied, “YES. That’s the legal position now. We have to get away from seeing college men as helpless against their sexual urges.”</p>
<p>You were the one who brought it up; no one else was saying anything about “college men [being] helpless against their sexual urges.”</p>
<p>Now, if you want to talk about it, at the risk of being too tongue-in-cheek, why do you exist? Your parents procreated. How did they come about? Your grandparents procreated. And how did they come about? Your great-grandparents procreated. And so forth and so on.</p>
<p>You’re here on this planet because your ancestors had sex. There is nothing wrong with wanting to have sex. It is natural, and it is how we continue to exist as a species.</p>
<p>There IS something wrong with nonconsensual sex; that’s called “rape” and it’s a CRIME (legal) and ABHORRENT (ethical). But just because there’s something wrong with nonconsensual sex doesn’t mean it’s wrong for college men to want to have sex with women (or other men).</p>
<p>Dear blankmind
I was typing the apology at the same time you were conveying your astonishment. Are you unastonished now? Hope so, sorry for the confusion.</p>