Perhaps. But a 3 hour processing test is helpful too. It’s no coincidence that the science section of the ACT is where people tend to fall apart.
Again, the test measures what it measures. Whether we like that or want to use it as a metric for admission or anything else is a separate question.
We can always extend the amount of time allowed on the test. A few extra minutes aren’t going to make a difference on an “aptitude” test. A college isn’t one of those places where a split-second makes a difference anyway.
There’s a difference between “blaming” parents and pointing out options.
Not in all cases, of course. As some parents report, some issues are beyond their anticipating and it takes everything they’ve got to help their kids.
Sure, but there are some great assessment tests out there and they look nothing like the SAT (assuming that is what you are focusing on). I managed/developed one of the tests referenced on this site and I can assure you the clarity between assessment and aptitude could be much clearer with the tests mentioned. Either way, no big deal to me. It will never be used the same way again for a variety of reasons - and aptitude is not at the top.
Nope - not focusing on the SAT. This applies to the ACT as well - or to any multi-hour standardized test, whether deemed “preppable” or not. The test you managed or developed could indeed be more clear or obvious. This isn’t a justification of using the SAT or ACT. You posted earlier that you weren’t sure what these tests were measuring. I have provided an answer for you.
processing ability? I kind of agree but then what about all of the kids at our school who get accommodations for lots of extra time or the chance to take the ACT one section at a time on four different days and colleges never know? Colleges then think their processing is quick when indeed it is not and don’t get me started on how many kids find “processing issues” right around sophomore year and parents pay a ton of money for that diagnosis.
No dog in the fight.
I think you would agree, however, that a fast processor with little knowledge would bomb those tests. If you do agree, then you are admitting that they are assessing knowledge.
If you agree that someone who processes slowly with all the knowledge would do ok, maybe not amazing, then you are agreeing these are measuring knowledge more than aptitude.
Peace.
Fair enough. Take a look at the following 2019-2020 SAT score distribution by ethnicity:
Ethnicity (mean SAT score)(% scoring 1400-1600)
American Indian/Alaska Native (902)(1%)
Asian (1217)(24%)
Black/African American (927)(1%)
Hispanic/Latino (969)(2%)
Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander (948)(2%)
White (1104)(7%)
Source: 2020 Total Group SAT Suite of Assessments Annual Report (collegeboard.org)
Given this, can you really argue that the current US educational system is working well?
You caution @Mumfromca against making an argument based on anecdotal evidence yet you’re doing the same.
And as I mentioned in an earlier post, students can retake A Levels and even if a student does not achieve the exam results required for their first choice university, they can go to their second choice (assuming they chose one that has a lower A Level results requirement) or another university where their results meet the institution’s minimum requirements. There are second (and third) chances in the UK.
And to respond to @Happytimes2001, of course back up test dates are provided for students who are sick or otherwise are unable to take an exam on the originally scheduled date.
British prime minister John Major (1990-1997) did not attend university whereas the past 5 US presidents going back to 1988 all went to Ivy League schools (Trump (Penn); Obama (Columbia/Harvard); Bush (Yale/HBS); Clinton (Yale); Bush (Yale).
(And while we’re at it, the UK has had two female prime ministers (Margaret Thatcher (1979-1990) and Theresa May (2016-2019)).)
For the record, I am not advocating for the US to adopt the UK A Level education system (it certainly has its share of issues) but please argue with facts rather than relying on myths and (mis)perceptions.
Absolutely right!
Isn’t one of the reasons that kids feel pressure to do well on the tests is because colleges want high scores to be ranked higher on USNWR. Wouldn’t it be freeing for all of the colleges if they could figure out how to evaluate apps without scores and they could take who they want without worrying about getting high score kids so they can keep their ranking…or move up in the rankings.
Yep. The very fact that some students are allowed extra time due to “processing issues” is kind of a huge hint that the test, normally administered, rewards those who process information more quickly.
I kind of think it shows they want to equalize the processing.
No, I do not agree. We have known many very sharp kids who take the SAT/ACT with little to Zero prep and do just fine. These kids would also score very high on a standard IQ test. Knowing how to take the test can be the result of inherent abilities. Some people just figure stuff out a lot more quickly than others and don’t get rattled under pressure.
The very reason there’s prep for these tests isn’t because someone needs to brush up on their English 11. It’s to learn how to take the test under timed conditions.
BTW, IQ tests are highly learnable as well.
And - we have no dog in the fight either.
Of course. Which is an acknowledgement that the tests measure processing ability and speed. Normally administered.
The supermoderator suggested we do not argue back and forth.
Feel free to reread 465. Testing is a complex science, well beyond what we can explain in a thread.
One of the best things about watching baseball is that a viewer eating pizza on his couch can criticize the swing of a professional.
No one claims that it should be “some absolute type of measurement”, just that it should be one of those measures (and only for some colleges or disciplines).
“Aptitude” test is also one of the measures used by some top professions (e.g. many top hedge funds) and professional/graduate schools (e.g. law schools). They don’t do it for no reason.
Exactly! Thank you. Goes beyond just this one thread.
Oh dear - you felt you were arguing? I see it as a discussion and assure you that I am not offended. Respectfully considering your obvious expertise in this matter, I do not wish to imply that a base of knowledge isn’t important for these tests. There is a reason why they are recommended for those who have reached a certain point in the high school curriculum. This was so back in my day, and it remains the case. My goal was to provide some clarification as to what these tests measure, since you posited that you really weren’t sure. Students from the same high school taking the same subjects (EDIT: and getting the same grades) will produce a wide variation of test scores. There’s a reason for that.
Sometimes I write - “I am really not sure.” - when I am implying things are a bit of a mess.
My son got a 800 on ERW on his first SAT try without prep because he is a fast reader. He scored much lower in the Math section because he is too slow solving the problems and doesn’t get to finish.