Correct me with I am wrong, but another issue with US News selectivity is that so few colleges are sharing top 10% and top 25% info these days.
They have to share it with USNWR if they want to be ranked AFAIK (or take a zero on that 2% piece of the calculation). I agree that many colleges do not fill this info out on the CDS.
But again, most US HSs donât provide rank currently, and the number dwindles every year.
I agree. D is in top ten percent for weighted but more like top 12% for unweighted and you can fess that out by looking at the deciles. It shows that she stretched herself and, even then managed to be super close to top ten percent for unweighted. Just showing top ten percent hurts those who just miss the cut!
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You can hate standardized tests all you want-- but it is hard to make the claim that a kid who got a 2 on an AP exam and an A in that same AP class has demonstrated the same fluency/understanding/competency in that subject as a kid who got an A in the class AND a 5 on the exam.
Yes, tests are flawed. Yes, particularly on the AP graders- there is some subjectivity that you donât get with yes or no or multiple choice answers. Yes, yes, yes. But the grade inflated HSâs give Aâs to kids who perform at what used to be called âCâ levels- i.e. show up, hand in assignments (whether high quality or low- just handing them in makes you average) and donât deface the textbooks. And often itâs the dreaded standardized test which allows adcomâs (when kids have taken the test junior year and submit the scores) which provides a check on that kind of inflation.
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Not sure how âteacher qualityâ would ever be defined or show up on a profile. I think 99% of our teachers have masters degrees but we still have our share of poor teachers. I would say, in general, the honors and AP classes do get the better teachers at our school but I only know that after having two kids there.
Not saying that âteacher qualityâ could ever be listed in a school profileâŠjust that itâs a factor.
âTeacher qualityâ and âcurriculum qualityâ can be partially measured by performance on achievement-based standardized tests associated with the specific courses (i.e. SAT subject tests, AP tests, state subject tests used in some states) relative to grades issued (i.e. do the A students in ___ class have A performance in the achievement-based standardized test associated with ___ class?).
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I think the class ranking concept is so interesting. Our HS district (4 high schools) stopped ranking in @2014 I think. I didnât have a high schooler and was not up to date on college admissions at the time and thought - good grief, is this to protect everyoneâs psyches?
But no, it was strategic. They felt that that person in the 15th percentile was just as talented as someone in the top 10% elsewhere and that it was genuinely hurting students in acceptances and scholarships to rank them. Later, after a complete cohort went through the system unranked, theyâve also come to the conclusion that it had the unexpected consequence of building a more collaborative student body.
Iâm waiting for Clemsonâs merit awards for my daughter to see how things play out. They have awards that are tied to GPA (and usually test scores) and being in the top 10% of the class (they appear in the NPC if you put you were in the top 10%, they disappear if you put you were not). They say they will consider candidates when their schools do not rank. Iâm wondering if my daughter will get an award commensurate with her GPA and assuming sheâs in top 10%, or if she will get a lesser award to hedge their bets.
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However, AP tests are achievement-based tests on specific subjects, and are not used as much in college admission as the less-specific SAT/ACT. Note that most standardized testing in other countries in more explicitly achievement-based.
A good start would be to start having tests that do not have such low ceilings, something that has SAT level questions, AMC level, AIME level and a few Olympiad level questions.
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You are going down a slippery slope if you start to put âteacher qualityâ on the school profile. There is a LOT of subjectivity involved in teacher evaluations, and there are students in HS who thrive in AP classes despite âbadâ teachers. These kids teach themselves and manage to get 5âs.
I agree about the ârestâ of the admission puzzle. However, colleges are first and foremost about academcs, unless their overall missions have changed in recent years. Theyâre academic institutions, are they not? Unless a student is winning academic competitions, what else besides grades (assuming test scores are unavailable) to show the academic side of his/her accomplishments? Not LoRs, I hope, as they arenât reliable for most students from large public high schools.
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I sometimes wonder if colleges go back and do a quick check on GPAs of students in their college they took from a high school. Like, if S19 is doing well at Bowdoin, does that help other kids from his high school? Seems like a lot of extra work but maybe some really thorough AOs could do that.
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@yearstogo if the SAT math section had some AMC style questions it would definitely separate out the math talent at the top. Too many kids are getting 800 these days. It doesnât really mean that much anymore.
Another issue. With more granular school reports (such as more detailed ranking data), wouldnât they face objections similar to those faced by standardized tests?
I donât doubt that AOâs have a filter through which they review interview reports, especially for longer term interviewers with a track record. I suspect they know who the easy graders are vs the tough graders. I think where the interview report could have the most impact is when a detailed report from a âtrustedâ interviewer does not correlate with the AOâs view of the rest of the application. If it is a borderline applicant, this may result in further inquiries as we see from time to time, whether it is a call to the GC, an LoR writer or a second interview.
I donât think so. Ranking kids by decile keeps kids from doing dumb stuff like trying to game the system to move up one single notch but still shows where they sit in the class. And itâs a reflection of their work over four years, not just one sitting (or a few sittings) of a standardized test.
They could probably do that with retention data and not a considerable amount of extra work.
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I guessâŠbut at top schools, kids arenât flunking out so retaining them doesnât tell you much.
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Exactly. At more selective schools, the athletes and/or whatever applicants who were admitted with sub-par stats by and large are still successful and graduate in a timely manner from these schools.
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