I’m going to resist all the temptations to comment on math competitions… 
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Well, if someone’s kid with stellar test scores is a strong candidate otherwise, I wouldn’t be worrying about other kids. You do all realize that some very very bright kids had ZERO chance to test, right?
We have a high scoring S and, if he were applying this year, it wouldn’t ever cross my mind to go on a thread and say “someone might take his spot”. We are in a pandemic and some kids were not able to test. They should not be penalized.
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I might agree with your logic if there were only 3 variables AdComs looked at, scores being one of them. But admissions are so far from that and there is unlikely to be 2 identical candidates, one with and one without a score. And some are missing internships from last summer and some didn’t get to take all the classes they wanted (our school had to restrict classes due to covid scheduling). So it isn’t as simple as a student without a score suddenly scoops up someone else’s spot.
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However, in past years, those students would not have been able to apply with any significant chance of success if their scores were poor. Now they do have a chance. In the world of tippy tops it’s a zero sum game. If someone who could not have gotten a spot previously (a great student with low scores) now can take a spot, that means that there are fewer spots left for others.
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Nope. If a kid has a stellar application and scores that are in the range but lower than the average, they would have gotten in over the kid with higher scores but a less impressive application in years past. High scores are nice! One of my sons had very high scores too. But that was only a SMALL part of his application. Same for your children. The kids getting in are NOT kids with massively low scores and they are NOT taking your child’s place. I could not agree with @homerdog more.
I also would point out that every year we get posts from parents with impressive kids who had bad application seasons and didn’t get in to many or even all of their schools. This happens Every. Year. The fact that some parents are believing that this is now because the landscape is test optional is misguided, in my opinion
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That is a little over one-third of all graduating students who weren’t able to take the SAT test. The rate is probably similar for ACT. If the rumor that almost two-thirds of all applicants didn’t submit test scores is correct, then nearly one-third of all applicants who had taken SAT/ACT chose not to submit their test scores.
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Of course getting a top score does not get anyone into an elite school. But getting a (relatively) poor score used to keep you out no matter how impressive the rest of the application. Not any more. That means more competition, which we all saw this year with the large increase in ED applications at elite schools.
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not true. In the past, someone with a stellar app but with a relatively lower score (let’s just say a 32 versus a 36) could still get into a top school IF the rest of their app was super enticing. And not everyone with a high score has the full package.
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I’m glad the College Board has released some facts about the matter. I’d rather wait to hear concrete facts from colleges about % of apps with and without test scores before launching into speculations.
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I will say this - those with “ok” apps but high scores might have less success this year IF the kids without scores present very strong apps otherwise. I don’t think a student with amazing ECs, essays, recommendations, rigor, and test scores who show fit are going to struggle at decision time.
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Those who excel at SAT/ACT to the point of being at the upper end of the range for the college will not be affected by test optional so much as those whose SAT/ACT were in the middle or lower part of the range for the college. Probably those in the lower middle range lose the most, since if they submit, they will be at the lower part of the submitter range, but if they do not submit, they cannot show better scores than those in the lower part of the range who will not submit. Obviously, the rest of the application matters as well, and this relative disadvantage only applies to the SAT/ACT part of it.
I agree. And if you are applying to college, it is always smart to request an official copy of your transcript early senior year. Seeing what is being sent can be helpful and there is still time to fix something that is wrong. I am willing to bet there were schools this year that included test scores on the transcript, for students who were applying test optional.
That 32 would definitely count against them, especially if they were from an over-represented racial/ethnic group and an over-represented geographic region. That said, if everything else was stellar, maybe not disqualifying. But how about a 28? And anyway, I’m not exactly clear what you are disagreeing with me about. Are you trying say that a top student gunning for an elite school with a stellar app except for a 28 on the ACT didn’t benefit from test optional this year? If so, we are going to have to agree to disagree.
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A hypothetical scenario I’d love input on:
Take, for example, a college that went through every single application and found that, of the kids they wanted to accept, 20% were test optional.
But what if their application numbers indicated that 40% of their applicants were TO?
Would they go back to the drawing board and reject some of the test-submitting kids, in favor of more TO kids? How will colleges deal with percentages while also sticking to their original message that going TO won’t disadvantage students??
Do you think that colleges are setting minimum percentages of TO kids they will admit that correlate in some way to the percentage of TO kids that applied? Or, are they just going through the apps and picking the kids they want with a plan of “letting the numbers fall where they may”?
@LeighMom. Just Wow! Someone may be a distraction and potentially take his spot?! Are you kidding me? A 36 is not a guarantee! I know plenty of kids pre-pandemic with a 36 who did not get into top schools. I also know of kids with much lower scores getting into Ivys. A kid from our school was admitted to Harvard last year with a 31. He created a nationally recognized charity and was student body president. Perhaps his extraordinary achievements were a distraction to someone with a 36 and he took their spot…
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I am saying that a student who either got a very low score for the college or would have gotten one if they could test will likely not be admitted anyway because they will not have the rest of the goods to compete.
But…there are kids out there who either (a) could not get to a test and have everything else they need to be competitive or (b) only tested once and didn’t hit desired score and also have the rest of the goods. And those kids will be part of the mix in the admit pile.
How many kids do you think have the ECs, the rigor, the essays, and the recs that hit the right note for a top 20 and would score a very low score in a regular year? I venture to say very very few. There aren’t thousands of kids out there with max rigor and state-wide ECs and strong recs who are scoring low. Generally, a really strong application correlates with a high score. The reason a student wouldn’t have that score to present on an app is because they couldn’t take a test or couldn’t take enough of them. A LOT of kids with strong apps and high scores have taken the tests multiple times.
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Of course everyone knows that good test scores are mostly necessary but not sufficient in most years. However, this year they were not necessary. I am not arguing that they should have been required, since there were many kids who really could not test due to COVID. However, I am saying that there were kids who did not test well (Maybe a 29 or 30 ACT or lower) who otherwise had a great app. Most years their chance of admission would have been drastically reduced. Would it have been impossible? No, but reduced. This year, their chances were not reduced. So it stands to reason that some kids who were admitted this year would not have been admitted in a test required environment. Just as the higher number of deferrals from last year took away spots, some spots this year went to kids without tests who would not have been admitted under test required situation. (BTW, I am not saying this out of any bitterness, as m kids are at Caltech and one just got in to Stanford.).
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Guys, as a long time vet (too long, most would say) every other year there seems to be a “disruptive event” which has everyone in a tizzy. Whether it’s the 2008 financial meltdown which happened just as kids were pushing SEND on their ED app’s- or the year of all the darn blizzards which happened every Friday night for about 10 weeks in parts of the country (causing cancellation of SAT administration AND the makeup dates) or the freak snowstorm the day of the PSAT’s or whatever- everyone is convinced that in a NORMAL year their kid would have gotten in but for…
To me, the best way to approach “holistic” is to make sure that your kid understands exactly what that means. Sometimes the brilliant cello player with lower scores than yours gets in and you don’t. Sometimes the doofus slacker with lower grades than you gets in- but you didn’t know that when that doofus slacker was cutting class he was working as a volunteer medical translator at the free clinic because he taught himself Vietnamese after teaching himself Pashtun and Mandarin.
Now multiply the slackers and the doofus and the cellist by several thousand kids across the country, most of whom are pretty special in their own right.
If you and your kid cannot come to terms with what holistic means (some years you have scores to evaluate- or not. Every hundred years there’s a global pandemic. Some time your parents might lose their jobs (both of them) the day you are supposed to apply ED to a college you might not be able to afford then you should apply to colleges which publish their rubrics. Or admit most of the kids who apply.
The idea that you can “game” who benefited from living in a part of the country which was in lockdown for months as people were dying and sirens were blaring and healthcare workers were suffering from burnout (and Covid) strikes me as evidence that you don’t “get” holistic.
I have a family member who several years ago got accepted to one of the HYP’s without applying. This is a true story. He was a medalist in an international competition (not athletic and not for HS students) and an adcom from the college called the HS (the names of the medalists were published with hometown and HS) to find out where the application was. The answer was “nowhere, hasn’t applied”.
This does NOT mean that several thousand HS seniors should “not apply” to a college they really want to attend. But it does mean that at a certain level of intellectual achievement, you don’t need scores and you don’t need a page full of EC’s and you don’t need to be president of the senior class or have spent hundreds of hours volunteering in an animal shelter.
Nobody who knew the kid was shocked to hear that a college of that level of competitiveness wanted the kid in their student body even without an essay, teacher’s rec’s, etc. Did this lesson apply to my own kids- normal, regular HS students? Of course not, and they didn’t think it did. Just that holistic means that colleges do not have to justify why one kid with an 800 got rejected while a kid with a 760 (or no scores at all) got accepted.
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I guess I’m just not a fan of the “my kid got a 36 and someone without a test score will take his seat” theory. That’s not a good look. Put together the best app you can, present yourself as a good fit for the college and cross your fingers. It’s a disservice to any student for their parent to be telling them that their seat was stolen from them by some student who didn’t send a score.
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I am not saying that anyone stole anyone’s seat. I am just saying that it was easier this year for kids who don’t test well but otherwise did well, and conversely, harder for those who do test well since some of their competitive advantage was lost.
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It depends on the college. Penn is the only college I am aware of that has posted official numbers for test optional vs test submitter, as listed at Penn accepts 15% of early decision applicants to Class of 2025, a record low | The Daily Pennsylvanian. . The article lists approximately the same percentages as your hypothetical example. Clearly Penn did not go back and admit more test optional kids to get make the total admits match the 38% of applicants.
38% of Applicants Did not Submit Test Scores
24% of Admits Did not Submit Test Scores
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