Those rankings have been the worst thing to happen to college admissions, honestly.
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I think this would be the most equitable approach with the greatest transparency.
I believe that is true that AOs look more granularly at the studentâs grades. We had two former AOs look at Dâs common app and they both noticed that her few Bs came when she was still dancing 28-plus hours per week and they were not in the area she is showing interest for college. Since she stopped dancing as much, sheâs had all As. They think AOs look at grades along side ECs to get a full picture of what the student was doing each year. I donât know if all AOs do this but it makes sense to not just look at the cumulative GPA.
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I found this thread very interesting. In my opinion, I donât think âdisserviceâ is the correct word. I think the biggest problem is that (like everything in this pandemic) the change was unexpected and no one was prepared for it.
If schools announced today that schools would be test optional beginning with the class of 2023, that would put everyone on an even playing field. If schools announced today that beginning with the class of 2023 there would be a rigorous physical fitness test instead and that score would be considered for college admission, that would be a shock, but it would still be an even playing field. If they announced in May that there would be a rigorous physical fitness test for the class of 2022 - we would be in the same boat as TO.
As long as people know what to expect, they can prepare (or not prepare) and the results are as âfairâ as they are going to get. Changing the rules midstream leads to the bad juju many are feeling these days.
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@3kids2dogs well said
But it isnât the same for all. Not everyone has the same access to test prep for example. or, as stated above, âmost schools scheduled ACT in their schoolâ-our small rural HS didnât schedule any standardized tests. I had to go to a different state for my daughter to take the SAT. We could afford the $ and time off from work to do so. Many families cannot, or if the kid is first generation, donât know they can. Testing also has been show over and over to not be predictive of how a student will succeed in college. Itâs ridiculous that you pretty much need over a 1500 to be considered at âtopâ schools. Kids are so much more than a test score on one day.
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@littlerobot I think this will prove to be true at most schools. I donât recall off the top of my head, but Iâve read a few statements from top colleges saying more than 50% of students applied TO. I still think itâs a benefit to have scores to submit but there are too many without to ignore. My Dâs situation is very similar to yours: Test repeatedly canceled with D studying between each cancelation. Attends a rigorous high school (IB program rather than AP) where she works hard and is an honor student. School has a solid reputation but is not one of the well-known elite schools. At this point I have to trust AOs mean it when they say an absence of scores wonât hurt the application. Best of luck to your D!
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Question for those who favor standardized testing: if you could get colleges (of all levels of selectivity, not just elites) to choose or design whatever kind of standardized tests to use without having to accommodate existing incumbents (i.e. the SAT and ACT), what kind of standardized tests would you recommend that they choose or design?
I.e. would you want them to choose or design tests closely tied to the subject matter in high school courses (conceptually like SAT subject, AP, IB, O-level, A-level, Canada provincial assessments), or would you want them to choose or design tests that are intended to be general or IQ (and for what types of intelligence) tests? Or something else or a combination?
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I think Florida was the one state who required test scores and they were down on applicants this year. Applications to Florida's public universities are down by as much as 50 percent
Hereâs another study that cropped up (back in March?) about the ACT being a weaker determinant than GPA on student outcomes: Study: Grades Are 5 Times Stronger Than ACT Scores
I think my only hesitation is that the study population is actually based on those who had a strong enough GPA and ACT to get into college. And the finding is that in that population, GPA was a stronger predictor of graduation. If we assume that schoolsâ testing thresholds did their job, then I think youâd still find that ACT scores could be predictive of graduation (ie, someone with an ACT of 30+ is more likely to graduate than someone with an ACT of 20). Which means itâs not clear from this study to claim that âthe ACT is not a good predictor of college success.â Once data starts flowing in from schools that recently removed standardized tests from admissions considerations, then we should get a better picture.
Though that also might mean fewer students will actually test so again the study population is tricky.
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They were at first.
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To my knowledge they only exist in BC, Alberta, and Manitoba and are subject tests, not comprehensive standardized tests. They are also only required in certain subjects.
We donât have provincial exams in Ontario anymore unless you want to count the mandatory provincial grade 9 Math and grade 10 literacy exams.
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Gotcha. Did they eventually have about the normal amount of applicants (i.e. testing didnât affect their student applicants)?
This is going to be an even more controversial topic.
A subject-matter test will measure how much a student has learned in her/his classes in those subjects. It helps determine if s/he is ready for college without remedial courses. However, this type of test, by its very nature, is more subjet to the influence of accessibilities (such as test preparations, etc.)
The more general a test is, the less prepable it becomes. A more general test measures more the test takerâs ability to think more abstractly of, to react to, problems of a more general nature. It may be better suited for students who aim for a more âeliteâ education, especially in certain areas where such abilities are highly desirable.
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Adcoms arenât reviewing kids based on the probability of some college GPA.
Sure, there are awards, honors/honor societies, opportunities for college students who do well. But itâs high school that runs them around trying to get various little accolades. Itâs hs where so many kids fret over tenths of a point differences in GPA, etc.
Adcoms are focused more on breadth and depth, how youâve been challenged and succeeded, how you expand, your thinking, and more. Not just scores.
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Good question - in an ideal world, I think Iâd prefer tests that demonstrate content mastery acquired over a semester or a year like AP/IB/A levels, NY state regents, etc. as more predictive of college success than SAT/ACT. But there are many schools that donât offer these courses/curricula so weâre back to square one regarding fairness or lack thereof for all students.
The test is one data point and one that many colleges donât weigh all that much. To say kids who got in without a test score will surely be struggling is absolute nonsense.
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Exactly.
I have no problem with TO. Itâs the test blind for Class of 2021 that I think is unfair. Specifically, the UCs. I realize they are test-blind because of a lawsuit, but this ruling makes an unpredictable process even more so, and with no warning.
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I thought I read they had a huge amount of applications that came in without a test score.
Itâs crazy as mine has gotten into 11 schools So far and then one Florida school is requiring a summer start. Aka the one school she sent test scores to.
Who said anything like that? Youâre making it up.
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